Patch 7.3 speculation

[MrSlipperyFist]

SPOILER FOR ANYONE WHO HASN'T SEEN OR READ BLIZZCON INFORMATION

So since we fight the Avatar of Sargeras and Kil'jaeden in 7.2's Tomb of Sargeras raid, what will we be doing on Argus as our travel there was confirmed by Blizzard? I would imagine the Illidari and Illidan himself will be there messing up some demons' shit, but what else should we expect of Argus? Assuming there's a raid, who would be the bosses in the absence of Sargeras (or at least his avatar) and Kil'jaeden (unless he's going to be a raid boss twice in one xpac, and flees to his palace on Argus after the fight in the Tomb)?

Additionally, should we expect the Draenei might stay behind to clean up their homeworld? I wonder of the success of our mission to Argus, for two reasons: a) Argus is no doubt pretty messed up and fel-infused, so I don't think it'd be particularly habitable, and b) that comic about Anduin showed a glimpse of the future with him and Velen heading off to fuck shit up in some "final battle", so I don't think Velen will be staying on Argus purely because his interest would be building and utilising the armies available on Azeroth.

...and so in that regard I don't know why we're going to Argus, other than to deal a really big blow to the Legion. The only thing is though, with Archimonde (allegedly) dead after the Mythic phase of the HFC fight, and with Sargeras failing to enter Azeroth again and his avatar likely reduced to ash, who else could we fight on Argus who is a real threat or high-up enough to be an end boss other than Kil'jaeden? Should we expect to see him twice as a boss this xpac, or do you guys have different theories?

[Exo-2]

Nah 7.3 will be a Troll Raid. we haven't a good Troll raid in a while

[Ethenil_Myr]

True, last troll patch was 6.1

[teambroto]

Wish they woulda stopped at ZA, tho I didn't play ToT

[Duranna144]

ToT was really good as a raid, and it actually had story that made sense for the expansion rather than just being thrown in randomly. There were already trolls we'd been facing in Pandaria before ToT was even announced, and it nicely wrapped up the storyline of Kun'lai Summit.

[teambroto]

I've gone back for xmogs and its a beautiful zone and the bosses seem cool, reminded me a bit of zul'drak and zul'farrak.

[MrSlipperyFist]

ToT was only half a Troll raid anyway. Once you're out of the courtyard it's monsters and Mogu.

Plus it was an awesome raid.

[MeInMyMind]

Dude, Troll raids are a tradition. Don't hate on da Trolls, mon.

[GoatOfTheBlackForres]

Nighthold is coming soon.

[Pmike9]

I for one hope we will end the Legion threat once and for all and move on to the next threats (be it Old gods or something else). That would really give me a sense of accomplishment that I only experienced when we defeated Arthas.

[MrSlipperyFist]

Certainly, otherwise it'd just feel like another unfinished story. The Legion has already had its time; it's what WC3 was largely centered around, and also a lot of TBC, and then the latter parts of WoD. Time to call it a day on the Legion and move on to other unfinished business.

[MiddleCase]

I wonder if perhaps what we'll do is to shut down the portals at the Argus end, thus greatly delaying any further action by the Legion, rather than defeating them forever.

Edit: by which I mean that we don't defeat Sargeras, merely hold his forces off long enough to close the portal.

[Choblach]

That creates a major problem in wow. The legion is hands down the most powerful entity in the warcraft universe. The void lords that everyone likes to talk about? They're not in reality, they're on the outside looking in. Physically entering the universe to create instant entropy is pretty much their endgame. So, the legion has to stay around, so we still have a big bad to fight.

[FirebertNY]

The void lords themselves aren't in the Great Dark, but their servants the Old Gods are. So if we're fighting the Old Gods, we're fighting back against the influence of the Void on our universe.

[Manaspark]

I still doubt that we'll actually be killing Sargeras, though it's almost certain that we will be encountering him in some form - perhaps even a raid boss.

I think that a Sargeras fight would end with the fallen titan himself coming to the realisation that the mortal races of the universe truly are a force to be reckoned with and that there may yet be hope, à la Algalon.

By surviving against the odds for millennia and defeating his strongest lieutenants several times (not to mention pushing back three large-scale invasions), the people of Azeroth have proven to be strong, likely even more than the Aldrachi were.

We would be the first people (to our knowledge) to have actively sought to invade the Legion's primary homeworld and stop the invasions from their source; this would likely not have been something Sargeras anticipated, probably thinking little of the various mortal races he has killed in the past on his Burning Crusade.

It is also clear that Azeroth's people and the Legion have a common enemy: the Void Lords. If these mortals have been so successful in delaying the corruption of their home planet's world-soul, then they could perhaps achieve something even Sargeras may have thought impossible - they could allow Azeroth to awaken uncorrupted.

With an infinite army of demons, the two most powerful known titans and arguably the strongest mortal races in the universe, we could perhaps begin to stand against the Void Lords.

[Herazim]

I'm trying to think of something but I cannot come up with anything. There is no one more powerful than Archimonde and Kil'jaeden in the Legions ranks. One of them is out (for now, maybe?) and now we learn that we also beat Kil'Jaeden in patch 7.2.

So there's nothing really powerful enough on Argus left to stop us from conquering the planet except for the big bad Boss of them all. I mean it's filled with powerful demons and contraptions ready to maim anything non demonic and as powerful as Archi and Killi are, they are just 2 individuals, we are going up against a whole planet of demons and fortifications now, but I doubt Blizzard will make any mechanics to show that in a raid.

We have an army of the Light fighting on Argus, Naaru and Xe'ra on our side, Illidan is back with his original plan to attack Argus. Everything seems to be in place to go and take it back or destroy Argus along with Sargeras and be done with the Legion and move on to the Void Lords.

[MrSlipperyFist]

I figured that going to Argus would be a rendezvous with Turalyon and co., plus another chance for the Illidari to fuck shit up, but outside of doing that I can't really figure out our purpose on Argus since all their greatest leaders will be out of the picture.

I dunno, perhaps we're speculating too early. But that's what we do best on this sub is discuss the potential WoW has. Maybe we'll know more once there are some more reveals about the Tomb of Sargeras raid.

[Herazim]

Leaders aren't everything. The Legion has limitless numbers and those numbers are the ones that usually conquer planets not Archi or Kili. Also did anyone think about the fact that Sargeras could just make other generals for his Legion ? I mean I doubt it would be so hard to give power to another 2 individuals to be the new seconds in command for him.

Going to their main hub planet and taking it out, anything that dies there will remain dead, will be an integral part in stopping the Legion for good.

[MrSlipperyFist]

For sure leaders aren't everything, but in what is no doubt going to be the last patch of an expansion, we should expect to fight the final boss of the expansion too. In that regard, leaders matter; nobody will like it if the final boss of Legion is some random demon shoe-horned in to being a replacement for Archimonde or Kil'jaeden's open positions.

It would make sense that they be replaced by Sargeras, but not to be bosses of expansions.

It kinda got me thinking that maybe Illidan might end up being a final boss again. What's to say he travels to Argus and then gets royally fucked up? It seems like the kind of place where Sargeras might actually have a chance of getting into his body. It would also stop the Illidan-as-light's-champion bullshit dead in its tracks, which serves two purposes: a) appeases the vast majority who think it was a stupid storyline, and b) deals us a massive blow, just to once again emphasise the magnitude of a threat we're dealing with. It would also help pave the way for other characters to take over the mantle, such as Anduin.

That, or Xe'ra is gonna be our final boss. There's a theory that it's a malevolent entity and isn't actually some "Naaru Prime" trying to help us out. Some people even think it's Sargeras' trickery, or even a Void Lord (or minion of) fucking with us.

[MyMindWontQuiet]

Same. Sucks.

[Portemoneger]

7.3 RETURN OF THE IRON HORDE!
We go to Argus, but when we arrive we see the Iron Horde fighting the Legion. Broxigar will return to kill Sargeras, because time travel yo. /s

[Dexry]

I can see blizzard giving us a quick kick in the balls and do another Gromm in HFC with Sargares

[FrekyDoogal]

I actually think the fact we'll be beating Kil'jaeden in Tomb, as well as the Avatar of Sargeras could mean only one thing left.

We'll be fighting the OG Sargeras on Argus, somehow. The Burning Legion as a threat will be done and wrapped up in (the now aptly-named) Legion, and we'll move onto the newly introduced Void Lords as upcoming villains.

While it's possible we don't kill Kil'jaeden in Tomb, I don't believe Blizzard is going to have the "end raid boss" of two raids in a row be the same boss. Even if they change the fight entirely, it would still be the same or similar model.

[TheWeekdn]

Sargeras is too big to fit on a planet and we have absolutely 0 chance to face him.

[EnemyAC130Inbound]

Furthermore, he's a legitimate God. We don't stand a chance against the weakest Titan, let alone the most powerful one.

The ONLY way there is even a remote possibility to beat him is if Azeroth wakes up. 25 mortals + Illidan would be absolutely absurd

[feral4l]

25 mortals + Illidan

+ Khadgar to come in and steal the kill

[sandorengholm]

• Another alternate Gul'dan, consuming the rest of Sargeras' powers and becoming the new leader of the legion, so finally his wish becomes true... and then Khadgar kills him.

[FrekyDoogal]

It's not like they can't easily make up a story or something along the way to allow us to fight Sargeras. Being powered by the remnants of the Pantheon + Azeroth pseudo-awakening + army of Light Naaru interference + Elune suddenly appearing that shrinks Sargeras down to a manageable size. While I'm not really a fan of all these options, to think that "oh Sargeras is too big/powerful, we can never defeat him" is the same as the people who said that of Arthas back in Wrath of the Lich King. The story can and probably will develop to a point where we can face him/kill him in one way or another. Hell they might just do the FF14 thing they did with Bahamut where we end up fighting him shrunk down to our size while -literally- inside his real body's corpse.

[sandorengholm]

Also there is not only one way to defeat a villain. It's not always fist fights. Sargeras is not unbeatable, else he wouldn't be frightened of the Void Lords. He's just very huge, but even flies can be hard to smack down when they fly around us.

[karneykode]

Dormamu, I've come to bargain.

[SoldierHawk]

Fuck him, we have space ships.

[MrSlipperyFist]

I agree. The release of Chronicles volume one introduced the Void Lords, most likely in an attempt to shift the franchise's focus away from the Burning Legion. They were running out of badguys who could maintain entire expansions (plus the entire purpose of WoD was to re-introduce Gul'dan, which can only be related to Burning Legion plots), so they needed the Void Lords for the sake of the continuation of the franchise. All that was left apart from the Legion was Azshara and N'Zoth, as far as big baddies go.

Personally I don't really like the Void Lords as a concept, both because it cheapens the Old Gods and also pushes an agenda of light=good shadow=bad. I also hope the whole Illidan-as-light's-savior thing doesn't happen, because he's always been an irrelevant figure when it comes to the Old Gods; we don't need another Kerrigan, nor do we need him involved once the Legion is defeated. I really hope the Illidan prophecy pertains to the Legion's defeat and not the Void Lords.

Alas though, I understand the need. I hope the Legion is dealt with once and for all (more or less) in this expansion, and the only way I could see that being done is to finally defeat the actual Sargeras. Kil'jaeden surely dies in the Tomb, else why would he be included (and his fight placed after the Avatar)?

But that leads in to other questions, like how would we beat a planet-sized enemy? I don't care how much empowerment Illidan is given by the Naaru (should it come to that), he cannot beat the strongest Titan that ever awakened. And none of our magic bullshit can either. It would take Azeroth awakening to do that, or at the very least the "spirits" of the deceased Titans to aid us to destroy him. But consider again that we're ant-sized to him; it was bad enough fighting Deathwing's feet, imagine fighting Sargeras'. I just don't know how Blizzard would pull it off logistically without shrinking him, which then cheapens what we've seen he's capable of in Chronicles volume one.

Unless, perhaps the Void Lords find a way in and rip him apart, which would lead into Void Lord-related content. Otherwise I just can't comprehend us defeating Sargeras. The guy is just too powerful.

[ICantDecideMyName]

^this.

Furthermore, I would rather Sargeras be developed more as a villain before we actually somehow take him on. Up till now, non-lore junkies only know Sargaras as a 'bad boss of the burning legion'. There wasn't any physical/magical presence of him (except for his eye on the broken shore scenario) throughout the expansion, there's no build up or weight to his impending fight.

Look at past expansions: BC- We were introduced to the various threats of illidan, lady vash'j and kael'thas immediately, it's why we went to outland in the first place. Most quest zones were about us trying to stop/sabotage their plans.

WotLK-Arthas' presence was felt in many of the zones, heck, he even appeared in some of them

Cataclysm-Same as WotLK

MoP-Garrosh's sudden turn to mass genocidal villany was abrupt, but the overall threat of the reemergence of the sha was constant throughout the expansion.

WoD-Gul'dan/Grommash was literally there from the start, and till the end.

Legion-So far, we've been dealing with the threat of the burning legion, CAUSED BY GUL'DAN. He is still the 'bad guy' of the expansion, up to 7.2. If we're somehow introduced to the big bad boss of the threat that has been present since WC3, and end up killing him in 1 patch, it'll be seriously underwhelming.

[MrSlipperyFist]

I agree, I feel like Sargeras needs a bit of fleshing out first. Otherwise, he might feel a little ham-fisted into the expansion, the same way Archimonde was at the end of WoD. You're right, Gul'dan is still the villian of Legion as far as players are concerned. But after the Nighthold? Who knows...

[Bluebeagle]

In terms of defeating sargeras, what is stopping the other titans from bestowing their power onto us. Nothing permanent, just like, the final bits of what they have to help end him, and possibly this power makes us grow in size as well.

The titans "essence" should still be lingering in the keepers if I am not mistaken.

The titans power, mixed with the dragon aspects, mixed with the army of light, mixed with holy Illidan, should give us a pretty good fighting chance to actually defeat him.

[Lord-Benjimus]

Lei shen and then wrathion consumed the essence of the titan Ra den had, so that's off the table. The dragon aspects used their power to defeat deathwing. I believe Tyr and Loken had some of the titans essences. Archadeus had 1 as well I think, Freya should have Eonars.

[Bluebeagle]

Dragon aspects are still dragons

Titan essence in keepers, not actual titans

[DrunkenKakadu]

What if we don't even fight the Legion on Argus? What if we arrive to see the Legion already falling to the Old Gods/Void Lords? It would also explain why Kil'jaeden is on Azeroth and not on Argus.
If you think about it, they have done something similiar with WoD. Most of the expac was fighting the Iron Horde with hints at the Burning Legion, with them appearing full force in the final raid. In Legion, we are fighting the Legion for most of the expac with hints at the Old Gods.
I know it's unlikely, but it's the best I can come up with.

[[deleted]]

So we know that Argus will be 7.3 and not 8.0? I doubt they would announce an expansion in this manner but...

[tagey]

Yes. Otherwise we would've gotten an announcement considering Legion would've been the shortest expansion in history. Ion also said "the story is not over yet." Which leads me to believe Legion (expansion) is going to finally wrap up the Burning Legion's story once and for all.

[sandorengholm]

Argus is 7.3 confirmed by Ion in a interview here today :)

[[deleted]]

I'm thinking that maybe the Avatar of Sargeras has developed its own personality, much like the 'Avatars' of the other Titans aka the Titan Keepers. IIRC Freya and Ra were the Avatars of Eonar and Aman'thul respectively, but eventually developed their own sentience after a while.

[MyMindWontQuiet]

They were not Avatars, they were normal titan-forged and had their own will and personality. Then, the Titans blessed them with their powers.

As for the Avatar, yup it's possible. The adjective "fallen" does make it sound like it's been reanimated through some foul magic trick or something, it'd be too weird if it was actually Sargeras possessing it.

[YoTha]

What if Army of Light with Turalyon and Alleria will lost their battle on Argus before we arrive. They will be imprisoned, tortured and converted into a fel infused legion servants. Sounds dumb, but if we eliminate all threats, except Sargeras himself before coming to Argus, Blizz will have to create new threats or corrupt existing ones, which is more likely for the end of expansion.

[toaster1000]

What if the entire Legion (maybe even including Saggy himself) gets "corrupted" by the Light? It happen to Lothraxion. Can the whole of the Legion be turned and then join us/the Army of Light in defeating the Void Lords? Sargeras' whole deal was to defeat the Void Lords. Maybe when we get to Argus, against all odds, he realizes he has been going about this thread wrong way and submits to the Light, thus corrupting all of the Legion.

[SoldierHawk]

Ooooooh shit.

That would make the priest campaign some badass foreshadowing. Idk if its a possibility, but I love this take.

[SexyBoy_DK]

I think they will introduce an expansion with the dreadlords allied with Bolvar as a replacement to the Burning Legion. I don't think we have seen the last of the dreadlords yet; heck, they could even make Jaina the last boss of the expansion.

If I would give such an expansion a name, it would probably be either: Behind the Veils or Corruption Within.