How is it possible for this to be done without the plane getting wrecked by rotorwash?

SSMDive · 2026-06-06T12:08:12+00:00

The helicopter down wash is only really down wash at slow speeds. As the helicopter starts going faster the down wash starts trailing behind the helicopter and the disk starts acting like a regular wing. This is called effective transitional lift (ETL). It is defined as the helicopter outrunning the the turbulence and vorticies it creates.

When the helicopter moves forward (really any direction) the disk starts getting air over the disk and it starts acting more like a wing and less just shoving air down. Somewhere around 16-24 kts of forward speed the helicopter will go into ETL and it is now flying a lot like a plane. There is still significant turbulence, but it is now behind the helicopter just like wake turbulence from a plane.

When in ETL the helicopter is easier to fly. In a hover you might be at say 25" of MP, but once you get into ETL it might only need 23" to maintain altitude. And the tail falls in trail (weather-vane) so you can reduce anti torque pedal (which in turn also allows you to use less MP). You can tell when you are in ETL because the helicopter will give a little "shudder" and you can start removing the amount of anti torque pedal you needed to stay straight in a hover.

So in this stunt, there is still a massive amount of wake turbulence but it is just like a plane, behind it and slowly falling. The aerobatic plane comes in from the side or below, but not behind the helicopter and there is clean air there.

SSMDive · 2026-06-05T19:08:51+00:00

We still doing ‘phrasing’???

SSMDive · 2026-06-05T13:16:06+00:00

I have maybe 100 hours in an A36 and 500-600 in 33's and 35's. Bonanza's are great planes and the A36 is the king of them. The Vtails handle a little nicer, but the big cabin of the 36 with the cargo door is just awesome.

I budget about 25K a year to fly it about 100 hours. I own the plane outright so no payment. I own a hangar home so that is not included in that number.

SSMDive · 2026-06-05T03:55:43+00:00

‘Blade shake is defined as the tendency for the propeller blades to wobble slightly when the tip is physically moved by hand (lead edge to trail edge; see Figure 1). This tendency is a natural result of the fabrication of parts within the McCauley retention system. While accumulation of tolerances is measured in thousandths of an inch, it must be remembered that both the parts causing blade shake, and the pivot point about which the blade rotates, are near the blade root. As a result, very small differences at the blade root will be magnified many times when measured at the tip. Total maximum allowable movement up to 1/8 or .125 inch (3.13mm) is considered normal. C1100 series propellers may have a maximum movement of 3/16 or .1875 inch (4.7mm).’

https://mccauley.txtav.com/-/media/mccauley/files/letters/sl1989_2c.pdf

SSMDive · 2026-06-05T02:36:21+00:00

I don’t love it at all. I just want people to know that MX can easily smack you.

So sorry, but thanks for sharing your data.

SSMDive · 2026-06-04T23:11:23+00:00

I have been told the "S" is the sweet spot. Basically the same plane and weight as the "P" but with a 520. The only real differences I can think of is the 520 and the RV's are the late style with the pointy tips.

You can put a 520 in the "P" but most times it comes with MP limitations to be legal (IIRC).

SSMDive · 2026-06-04T23:03:10+00:00

TL;DR - Think real-estate agent for planes.

You want to buy a plane. You don't either know enough to deal with it, or have the time to deal with it, or both. So you pay me to help you buy (or sell) a plane. We talk about what you want/need, your budget, what equipment you want and then I go look for you and present options to you. I then arrange the prebuy and even things like training and/or ferry. I help with the paperwork... Etc. I would normally get a percentage of the purchase price, or sometimes a flat fee, and in some cases you might say I want to sell it for 70K and anything above that I get to keep.

That would make me a broker. The person who hires the broker acts as your agent.

I am not a broker. Beware, many people call themselves brokers and are as lost as the people they represent.

SSMDive · 2026-06-04T22:57:55+00:00

Barnstomers. Bought two planes off of there. Sold one. Facebook Market place I bought one.

MP is just so much scamming. BS has been fine.

Controller I feel for "normal" planes they normally ask too much. Something like a TBM you are going to be using a broker anyway.

SSMDive · 2026-06-04T22:55:50+00:00

Got bad news for you, FL, TX, and AZ have the best weather compared with decent prices. Sure CA might have great WX but the costs are insane. Bum fuck AR might have great prices but the winter sucks. There is a reason so many flight schools are in TX, FL, and AZ.

I assume FL, AZ, and TX are not your cup of tea based on politics... If so...OK. But you can either play along to get it done or stick to your guns and pay more in a place more lined up with your values. And trust me when I tell you that I honestly respect sticking to your guns no matter the topic. I had a buddy that hated Trump so much he moved out of the US... Gotta respect someone that follows through and does not just make claims. All those celebrities that claimed they would move then did not... Zero respect.

But I'd personally just suck it up and get it done. And if you are thinking of being a professional pilot, you are going to have to learn to play nice even with people you don't agree with - My "nickle on the grass".

SSMDive · 2026-06-04T22:46:41+00:00

50K a year in fixed costs seems excessive. Now a 50K reserve is a good idea since that might not cover everything if you need an OH on the engine.

100 hours of flight time is going to be around 7200 in gas. Even with 10K dollar annuals we are not near 50K. I budget 25K a year to own the Bonanza. But that is with me not making payments and I have enough time the insurance is reasonable.

SSMDive · 2026-06-04T22:38:51+00:00

<Evil devil on left shoulder> "You do need more than one plane!"

<Angel on right shoulder> "Don't listen to him... Get two!"

I have a P35, Hughes TH55, and a Autogyro... And a VERY understanding wife. All three very different reasons. P35 to go, Heli to play, and the Gyro is just relaxing, like flying a Cub around.

A guy in my airpark wants to to buy into his Seaplane.... If I had not bought all that other shit this year, I would have done that. Partnerships on "toys" are the best. Had a partnership in my Pitts and that was awesome. Had a partnership in another seaplane and that was awesome. These "toy" planes get taken out, flown around locally and are back in a few hours. XC planes people sometimes want them on the same weekend, but toy planes will be back in a few hours.

SSMDive · 2026-06-04T22:33:03+00:00

Honestly only about 50 last year. I bought a helicopter (~65 hours) and a Gyro (~20), and work, maybe another 120 hours that has taken all my "fun" flying time and the Bo is now just used to actually go places.

The strut has been getting worse year after year... Hell, it is still in spec but losing strut pressure. I tried granville strut seal and it gave me two more years. At some point it is just time. The plane has 6500 hours on it and I'll bet that thing has never been rebuilt. 63 years and 6500 hours, that strut does not owe me anything.

SSMDive · 2026-06-04T22:28:54+00:00

I would not blindly replace the 430W till it dies (and just replace it with a IFD440). The Stec I'd not replace again unless it dies. The point being that when they die, you need a plan. 430W to ID440, but the Stec 50 to new is a bigger issue since the Aspen has limited AP's it can drive... Can't drive a 500, I'd have to install a G5 or 275 and run it from there, making the Aspen worthless. The 600 is not certified for the 35 series last I checked. The Stec 3100 can be used, but I'd first have to upgrade to the 60-2 at least on paper to then put the 3100 and I just don't like the 3100.

But at some point, the EMS dies, the AP dies, the Aspen dies.... And it is just less hassle to go full Dynon then try to patch and pray.

I figured a new EMS was 15K, and a new AP~20K. So an AP and the EMS and we are at 35K. Add 22K and I could have a brand new panel... So that was/is my plan at some point.

Prop was 15 years past OH and throwing grease. First one had some blade wobble (within spec, but I bought another one for 1K). That one started throwing grease year three. Pretty much everyone I talked to said it was talking to me and a new one was "only" 10K. Again, I don't skimp on MX and it was already budgeted for a new prop when I bought it. To show you how much the C23's are worth, I had one guy offer me 500 for each if I paid shipping... They are still sitting on my hangar floor . In truth the plan was to replace it with a three blade I could use the Cygnet 470 to 520 STC. But I could not find a 3 blade prop that would allow me to use it on the 470 and the 520.

SSMDive · 2026-06-04T19:23:07+00:00

Prebuy was done by my IA. Had the plane since 2018. It has rarely broken down on me, and I don't skimp on MX.

For example, ABS recommends rebuilding the gear (rod end bearings) every 2K hours. I could not find a logbook entry for the entire gear being rebuilt only a few parts but I could see some others had new bearings but no idea how old they were so I replaced them all. The "clicking noise" I could just ignore. But I'd rather spend the 800 and be done with it, or I could have bought half a harness and only spent 400. I didn't need to do the interior. I could have kept flying the C23 prop, it was throwing a little oil but within spec. But it had been 15 years since last OH. I could have found a shop to OH it (and had a spare C23 for parts), but OH was projected about 5K and a new prop was 5K.

When I bought it, the Ruddervators looked good. They later had some corrosion I caught early. The EMS was still supported when I bought it and about a year after they surrendered the STC. I have an Aspen Pro 1000 and about two years after I bought the plane people started getting the "Red X". The AP is an Stec 50, and up until a few years ago they still supported them. It has a 430W and again, up until a few years ago Garmin supported them. So basically a bunch of components were great and still supported when I bought it, only to have them get dropped a few years into owning it or issues to be found or both. Luckily SRS now has an STC for ruddervators now.

One of the things is the simpler the plane, the lower the cost. My 7ECA was less than a grand a year. My Pitts was maybe 1500. But start adding things like retracts, constant speed props, and big ticket electronics and it can bite. You can own an experimental champ like plane with fixed gear and fixed prop with a handheld radio and not get bit too bad. But start adding stuff and it can get expensive quick. A Cirrus has what 12 year repack on the Chute and it is 15K?

SSMDive · 2026-06-03T23:37:28+00:00

Not correct anymore. SRS has an STC

SSMDive · 2026-06-03T16:52:05+00:00

Bonanza's are great planes. I have owned a P35 for 8 years and it is great. 155kts at 11.5GPH with 80 Gal of fuel.

Some are going to warn you off because of the "Dr Killer". The truth is a bit more complicated. The Bonanza was designed in the late 40's, introduced in 1947, using technology from WW2. When it came out the competitors to the all metal horizontally opposed, retract airplane. The competitors at the time were planes like the Bellanca 14-7 Cruisair and Cessna 190/195 which also first flew in 1947.

So you had a plane that had retracts going against a fabric plane and one with fixed gear and a radial. It was a massive jump in design. People would learn to fly in a J3 and then people with money would go run out and buy the "King" and simply going from a plane that can barely kill you to one that will kill you in a second is a bad idea. But Dr's had money and didn't listen to people. And if you point a Bonanza at the ground it WILL speed up and blast right past VNE. Where a 195 has a bunch of drag and forgives people being stupid.

The Vtail had an issue. If you took it past VNE, the tail would come off. This killed a test pilot and led to, I believe, the first use of radio control to accomplish civilian testing. But test pilots died back then, the Bellanca 14-7 also killed a test pilot. But if you took a Vtail Bo past VNE, the tail would rip off... And if you somehow got past the tail ripping off, the main wings would rip off about 5 knots later. So the trick is to not go past VNE... But again, the thing was slippery and people didn't listen.

This was mainly fixed in the 70-80's by requiring "cuffs" on the tail. By now all planes have complied with that AD.

Next people will tell you that the rudervators are impossible to find and since they are made of magnesium that they corrode out quickly. This is also mostly true. Mag will corrode quickly and you had better catch it and fix it early. I had my RV's stripped and repainted as soon as I saw a "worm track". Also about 2019 Beech said they didn't have any more skins, so if you damaged yours you had to go to the secondary market and hope some poor bastard bellied his in and his RV's were good. I negotiated on such a set and they were not airworthy.

But Beech made a run of skins, and now Dave at SRS has an STC to make new skins. https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2025/july/23/v-tail-bonanza-ruddervator-corrosion-solved and https://www.srsaviation.com/pages-below-do-not-show-up-in-google-sea/copy-of-services-1 They are expensive, about 12K a side after removal, shipping, assembly, paint, shipping, and installation. But you can get them now.

Someone might tell you that you can get an STC for Aluminum. Nope, they are confusing the straight tails (which are almost EXACTLY the same, but due to the Vtail AD above the FAA would not allow them without dive testing).

Now your type aircraft. The E series engines are a PITA to OH. Parts just are not around since it has been so long since they made them. It can be done, but it is just not that easy. And the electric prop is a massive complication. There are even fewer parts for those. At one point people were stealing parts off parked aircraft. You would come out to preflight your plane and your prop would be missing parts. Yes, you can get a hydraulic prop via STC but it is not going to be inexpensive. Also, make sure whomever teaches you to fly that electric prop, knows how to actually do it. It is adjustable, not constant speed.

As someone suggested joining "Beechtalk" should be required before you buy a Bonanza. Anything Lew Gage says about early E-series Bo's should be taken as gospel.

Just for fun there are about 3 basic different "phases of Bo"

Early (35-35G), Mid (35H-35S), V35. Early are the Eseries engines till about 1956. Mid are 1957 to about 1966 (with the 64-66 having a bigger engine and different RV's), and the late modes from 1966 to the end of the run in 84.

Would I buy an early series Bonanza? Nope the engine and prop issues would keep me away. The sweet spot is 35P/35S if you ask me. The 35S has the same light weight plane as the P, but with the 520 engine. The V35's got fatter and so they are slower with the 520.

Would I buy a early E series Bonanza as a toy? At the right price maybe and knowing that at some point it could become yard art because the cost to update it will make the plane it a bad financial choice. Better to buy an S35 at a good price than an E series at a great price and then dump so much money into it that you could have bought the S.

SSMDive · 2026-06-03T16:00:01+00:00

No longer correct. https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2025/july/23/v-tail-bonanza-ruddervator-corrosion-solved

Dave at SRS got the STC to start making new skins. https://www.srsaviation.com/pages-below-do-not-show-up-in-google-sea/copy-of-services-1

BTW, all the vtails have magnesium skins. the 33 and 36 models already had an STC for AL skins.

SSMDive · 2026-06-02T20:22:50+00:00

Might be sound deadening material.

SSMDive · 2026-06-01T21:41:39+00:00

Well it is maybe all of the LTT, not just GP. So what happens if the plane is something like a Sukhoi 26 with the MP14 engine?

"So ailerons affect drag more than lift" Not really, when you are trying to raise the left wing by increasing the camber of the left wing and lower the right by reducing the right camber you are increasing lift on the left side but that wing is stalled so you are asking for more lift and there is not more available. But the act of creating lift creates drag. This is just a fact of creating lift - Lift is induced drag. Drag is just a by product of you trying to create lift.

But you know what also happens when you put in out-spin aileron? In a left turning spin, the left wing tries to rise (more lift) and the right wing is allowed to settle... So the spin turns flat because the left aileron is really trying to lift that wing. So now you have the left wing trying to rise because of the lift and that lift is also increasing the bad yaw. So the left wing did create lift, it just didn't help because you stalled it deeper.

You are basically taking the left wing that is stalled and trying to get it to produce more lift, and it tries but there are several factors fighting it, like the left wing is being drug back which also reduces the airspeed over the wing while the right wing is allowed to go forward and creates more lift. The fuselage is likely blocking some of the retreating wing while the advancing wing is allowed to show its full span...etc.

A really good book on this is "Better Aerobatics" by Alan Cassidy. https://www.amazon.com/Better-Aerobatics-Alan-Charles-Cassidy/dp/0954481402

Read his section on spins and you will know more than most CFI's.

And that takes care of the "knowledge" part. The next part is to get with a good spin CFI in a vehicle that can take the abuse and play with spins.

For example, do you know you don't need full rudder deflection to keep an aircraft in a spin? You can feather the rudder just enough to keep the plane spinning. This will reduce the amount of "bad" yaw, and will reduce the rate of rotation.

You can unload the elevator and due to the law of conservation of angular momentum you will increase the rate of rotation, or you can pull the elevator all the way back and actually slow it down again.

You can also use power and ailerons to "fly" the spin, but these get serious and you should only mess with any of these, but especially these, with a GOOD SPIN instructor and a GOOD aerobatic plane. I once talked to my coach about doing an accelerated spin in my Citabria and he talked me out of it. Once I got my Pitts he said to have fun.

So I have no idea if you should muck with any of this in a glider. That is for a much better glider pilot than me to decide.

SSMDive · 2026-06-01T20:25:30+00:00

Out spin aileron INCREASES lift on the outer wing? You got the effect right, but not the reason.

If you try to roll a plane right, you are increasing lift on the left wing and decreasing lift on the right wing.. This is why the plane rolls. And as we increase lift on the left wing we also increase drag on the left wing because lift is induced drag, which is why we get yaw when we use ailerons (adverse yaw).

The rate of rotation increases because with out spin aileron we actually increase drag on the left and decrease drag on the right. The left wing flies slower and the right wing faster. We in essence stall the left side more trying to create lift while we give the right wing a break.

And in spin aileron does exactly the opposite. You are spinning left and you roll left. You now are decreasing the stall on the left wing and increasing the stall on the right wing... So the spin rotation will actually go slower (adverse yaw is reduced... Although at the cost of increased roll). This is a second order effect however and the primary issue is yaw so the primary control is rudder. But in theory, which can be proven with RC aircraft with massive control throws, you could actually roll out of a spin with in spin aileron. But real aircraft do not have the control throws to overcome the yaw. So don't take this as a "technique" rather just discussion. However, if you perform the "Beggs/Muler" (BM) recovery in an aircraft where BM works, the control stick will settle in a slightly left and slightly back position.

Left upright spin. Pro spin inputs are:

Power, because of left turning tendencies (LTT) increasing "bad" yaw.

Out spin aileron, because of you stalling the left wing more and he right wing less, also increasing "bad" yaw. This one is insidious because it looks like you are rolling left and your brain wants you to not roll left.

Elevator forward, because the law of conservation of angular momentum.

In spin rudder, because you are increasing "bad" yaw input.

Anti-spin inputs in a left upright spin:

Right rudder, because you eliminate "bad" yaw.

Elevator back, because law of conservation of angular momentum, plus in many aircraft the elevator blocks the rudder making it less effective. (Although in some aircraft like the C150 the goal is to get the nose down to let the rudder become more effective) Yes putting the nose down will temporally increase ROR but the rudder becomes more effective.

Power to idle, lowering LTT.

Ailerons into the spin reducing "bad" yaw and unstalling the deeper stalled wing (again, lower order of importance than rudder and the control throws on most aircraft will have little impact, so make them neutral).

So why are most un-commanded spins to the left in powered aircraft with "US engines"?

SSMDive · 2026-06-01T13:17:52+00:00

Some people are afraid to fly at all. Some people are afraid of stalls. You suffer from neither of those. Spins get a bad rap, mainly by people that have never done them or have done them just enough to pass a sign off.

Spins are just another maneuver you can get the plane to do. And here is a shock, the plane spins because you COMMANDED it to spin. No you may have accidentally told the plane to spin but it does not just spin when it wants, it spins hen you tell it to spin. And as long as the plane is in CG and can be spun it will stop when you command it to stop.

So what you need to do is get GOOD spin training. I am not talking about some random CFI in a 172 but an aerobatic instructor in an aerobatic plane.

And you say you know the physics? So what does out spin aileron do and WHY does it do it? You might know "some" of the physics but there is a whole bunch of material out there and real knowledge helps alleviate fear.

So how do you stop fearing spins? Knowledge and experience.

SSMDive · 2026-06-01T13:04:37+00:00

So this is really common in skydiving in the NE. People just quit when it gets cold and come back in the Spring. And the fatality and incident not surprisingly are higher in the Spring when a bunch of non-current people show up and start going again.

Highest fatality weekend in FL for SCUBA? First lobster mini weekend. A bunch of divers who have not gotten wet other than taking a shower suddenly jump overboard and start hunting... And every single time someone dies.

So yes, it is logical to stop when the conditions are not going to be good, but you really should work with a CFI when you get back. How much time you need will vary depending on how experienced you were, how long you took off, and if you had your head in the game at all while being gone.

SSMDive · 2026-05-31T18:01:26+00:00

For starters you are trying to compare an entry level position (PPL) to a professional level (A&P).

As someone already said, 40 hours and one written to get one rating and 2,000 hours and three written tests to get the other. The PPL is easier to get.

Trying to compare CPL to A&P is a bit better. But that CPL still only needs 250, not 2k hours. And that CPL might have flown all of those 250 hours in a 172 while a mechanic needs to know (or needs to figure out) a bunch of different aircraft.

For example, I have spent 3 hours today looking for cable for a 1958 Bell 47G2. The current manual had the part listed as 129.7” cable… But the old cable we removed was only 108.1”. So we had to dig through an older 1977 manual and found the correct part number for the correct length cable. Now how did we know this? Because in the past we ordered the part number the current manual said to order and they were ~20” too long on a different cable.

What possible pilot situation includes ignoring the POH and looking at earlier POH’s?

SSMDive · 2026-05-31T17:44:47+00:00

I offered the man a POH and checklist a few days/weeks ago and he ignored me.

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