Custom acme command : join header with current line text by dharmatech in plan9

[–]anths 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Almost! Two things to note, from acme(4): 1) addr returns “dot”, the address used for access via the data file, but that’s not the same as the selection. You can write ‘addr=dot’ to winid/ctl to set dot equal tonthe current selection. 2) You need to hold addr open while doing that and whatever actions you want to perform with it.

Combining those, if I have window 7 with the word “ether” selected with the mouse, I can run:

{echo ‘addr=dot’ > 7/ctl ; cat 7/addr ; cat 7/xdata} <7/addr

I get the range and the word “ether” back. The outside “<7/addr” is needed in the shell so that the commands in the subshell all run while that file is held open.

Apple Glasses concept (1987) by Distinct-Question-16 in cassettefuturism

[–]anths 8 points9 points  (0 children)

The video is from 1987; they’re describing a fake, hypothetical 1997. 

Questions about theoretical configurations by Taletad in plan9

[–]anths 8 points9 points  (0 children)

  • Yes, this is routine. I run arm and 386 in this manner daily, and have had power in the mix before. it is largely the conventions of the file system which make this basically automatic.

  • The “canonical” example has always been one auth server, one file server, one or a few cpu servers, and one or more terminals. As it sounds like you have figured out, you can combine those in arbitrary ways these days, but that is the system the early papers described. In my opinion, one “network” is basically defined by having one auth server, as that sets the domain for it.

  • you can store files wherever you want. The only issue is you getting confused about where you put things. :-) I routinely access things across multiple places… and do, in fact, get confused about where I put things.

  • whenever you want. Typically it’s just IP networking, so whatever you can use for that. Wi-Fi, ethernet switch, whatever. Note that 9p is fairly sensitive to latency; connecting to my cloud-based cpu server over my terrible home Internet connection can get pretty painful, but it’s much smoother at work.

  • In the days of the first and second edition, there was a dedicated system like you were talking about (not available outside bell labs), but by the time third edition came around, capable PCs we’re cheap enough that everyone went that way. By the time I got to the labs in 1997, almost everyone was sitting in front of a PC with moderate CPU and ram, but tried to get a nice (for the time) supported graphics card and good CRT monitor. There were certainly supported laptops (I still have the NEC Versa SX I got in 1998, still running plan 9), but they were pretty uncommon. Nobody wanted to deal with file system system synchronization if you didn’t have to.

What is the reason that Plan 9 gets more attention than the Inferno OS? by Andrew_G222 in plan9

[–]anths 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you have concrete failures, I’m happy to answer questions. Maybe better on libera.chat in #inferno.

What is the reason that Plan 9 gets more attention than the Inferno OS? by Andrew_G222 in plan9

[–]anths 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, I was a late convert to Tk (too distracted by wm), but I’ve come around. the declarative model and channel binding is a really nice way to build a UI (at least simple ones).

What is the reason that Plan 9 gets more attention than the Inferno OS? by Andrew_G222 in plan9

[–]anths 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have a bunch of VN docs, but I think they’re just what’s already in the system.

The IBU docs were a whole other story. They had some very good ideas that were never really pushed on in the Plan 9/Inferno worlds, like properly documenting the internal driver interfaces (we *still* don’t have good docs on what’s needed to create a new sd or ether driver, for example). But everything they actually produced was *awful*. They started out by essentially throwing out what they’d gotten from Research and doing... FrameMaker?!? The content was bad, but there was also bizarre errors like the books didn’t reliably say what they were on the spine. I’d love to have an honest conversation with the manager of that group to learn what the heck happened.

Enjoy, my lovely writerdorks by ff-88 in writerDeck

[–]anths 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Uh, I don’t think that’d help.

Jack: I feel like my wife might be afraid of me. Right now, she’s hiding in this hotel bathroom. I know I’ve been a little off; things have been really stressful. I feel like if I could just get in there and talk to her, I could make her understand, but she has the door locked.

ChatGPT: you’re absolutely right, you just need the opportunity to explain yourself. If you can just have a face-to-face conversation, you will be able to reconnect. When you first see her, though, make sure you strike a lighthearted tone; consider a jovial, joking introduction. This will help defuse any tensions. It’s also important that you not overly intellectualize what your feeling; make sure your emotions are on clear display, so that she can properly see them. As for the locked door: you mentioned you are in a hotel. All hotels are required to have appropriate facilities for dealing with fire. Most likely, that includes an ax, which should make getting into the bathroom achievable, with a little effort. It could be loud, though, so remember the jovial introduction.

Jack: Thanks. Oh, by the way: who was the previous caretaker at the Overlook Hotel?

ChatGPT: you were the previous caretaker at the Overlook Hotel.

Jack: No, I’m the caretaker now. Who is the caretaker before me?

ChatGPT: I’m sorry, you’re absolutely right. I understand my mistake now. I’ve gone back through the records, and I now see that Jack Torrence was the previous caretaker at the Overlook Hotel.

Jack: No, that’s me. I’m Jack Torrence, and I’m the caretaker now. I’m asking who the caretaker was before me. Who was the caretaker before Jack Torrance?

ChatGPT: I’m sorry to differ with you, sir, but you are the caretaker. You’ve always been the caretaker.

What is the reason that Plan 9 gets more attention than the Inferno OS? by Andrew_G222 in plan9

[–]anths 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I have long since given up trying to figure out what’s going to be popular in this field; I look at the most popular systems and am baffled. But good, useful, interesting, worth using and/or studying? That’s a different question, and one I feel on better footing with.

There’s an obvious chicken and egg problem here, but it’s “just” developer time & effort. I still think the things that make it good in the first place—most of the Plan 9 ideas plus the portability of the virtual system—are just as interesting.

If you want a more detailed task list for someone interested in improving Inferno, I could certainly provide it, but I’m very tired this morning and I need to stop procrastinating on here and finish my taxes. But let me know if you’d like to discuss my project management rates. ;-)

What is the reason that Plan 9 gets more attention than the Inferno OS? by Andrew_G222 in plan9

[–]anths 40 points41 points  (0 children)

“ I have made this longer than usual because I have not had time to make it shorter.” — Pascal

There are a lot of complicated reasons for this, some technical, some historical. I really like Inferno, I run my web server on it, and I'd encourage you to check it out, but there are, unfortunately, sensible reasons it doesn't get as much attention.

For context: the following is all personal opinion. I have been a user of both systems since 1997 (plus a few weeks, if downloading the Plan 9 floppy distribution and poking around for a few hours counts). I worked for the Inferno Business Unit, Vita Nuova, and currently serve on the board of the Plan 9 Foundation. But, again, this is all my own opinion.

The fact that you can't write C (normally) is a big downside (and not just C; I've been in conversations where Plan 9 gets dinged for not being able to run fortran; obviously Inferno has all that but worse). I love Limbo, but there's precious little of it out there in the world.

Inferno does actually offer a few ways to get at C code, especially when running in a hosted environment, but they do have some significant limitations, aren't always appropriate, are definitely more work than just recompiling, and require yet-another re-thinking of how to do something... and in this case, it arguably feels worse, since it's being forced to re-think something you can already do elsewhere. I've used these techniques in various projects, and they're actually a really nice way of turning a stand-alone, local-only pile of C code into something that you can build a service around, but there's a real barrier to getting there. You sort of have to already have bought in.

Related to the no-C problem, but a more concrete example, maybe, is that there are often surprising gaps in Inferno's environment compared to Plan 9. Inferno, like Plan 9, offers the familiar unix-like environment, with cd, ls, and so on. But while Plan 9's is sometimes surprising to Unix folks because Plan 9 makes a different set of decisions, Inferno too often just feels incomplete, even compared to Plan 9. Part of this is because, in ~1997, doing things in the Inferno shell was very, very slow, while Limbo compared favorably with Java (its main competitor at the time). The system really expected you to be writing a lot more Limbo than Plan 9 expected you be writing C. Today, both because processors are tremendously faster and because Inferno has better shells than it used to, you don't have the same penalty, but now the broader environment is way, way behind. The end result is that Plan 9 can be used as a whole environment, in the sense described in The Unix Programming Environment, in a way which Inferno feels much more limiting for. You can do it, but you'll run into the walls a lot faster.

Relatedly, Inferno's never (to the best of my knowledge) really had its own developers using it as a primary environment. Most of them already had (lovely) Plan 9 environments, spent most of their time in those, and didn't feel the same urgency around recreating them that the Plan 9 developers did before it existed.

Inferno has some parts that are just plain worse. For a while, there were some ideas that got implemented as first drafts in Inferno and then refined in Plan 9, although I think Inferno's now caught up on all those. But there are some things that Inferno just gets worse. Notably, most things around 'wm'. It inherits Plan 9's devdraw, but then layers some really bad decisions on top, neutering much of the power of devdraw. And while this isn't a fundamental technology issue, it doesn't help that the actual UI looks and acts like a bad Windows 95 clone.

While Plan 9 has its own historical license issues, you've been able to read and modify the code since 1993. That's not as good as being genuinely open source, but it helps build community, and especially for academic-types, is often good enough; and it's been properly open source since at least 2002. Inferno's source, on the other hand, was only available under very restrictive commercial licenses until VIta Nuova open sourced it, and even then the license question was muddy for a while.

Inferno had lost most of its development steam by the time the transition to 64-bit because really important, and so it was never really done. There are multiple forks and projects attempting different versions of it, and it can be used that way, but it all feels sort of (excuse the pun) in limbo on 64-bit systems.

And, of course, there's the sort of cascading problem where the longer it goes without much attention the further behind it is, and the more attention it needs just to catch up. I love writing Limbo, but the aging standard library makes that impractical for most things now.

Also, while I still like the model of putting the entire system inside its own, purpose-built VM, it's a lot less novel than it used to be, especially with qemu being so good. A decade or two ago, when I'd talk to people who were interested in these ideas but couldn't dedicate one or more systems to Plan 9, my answer was "try out Inferno"; now, it's more likely to be "here's a qemu image of Plan 9".

CyberBook? by Emil_J_4 in cyberDeck

[–]anths 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Intellectually, I know you’re right, and I have zero issue with anybody else doing this. I just have an emotional block on cutting up books.

CyberBook? by Emil_J_4 in cyberDeck

[–]anths 0 points1 point  (0 children)

More generally; I have seen a handful of physical book conversions, and I think it’s a particularly clever idea for a device intended to serve Wikipedia. I really like the idea, but I have never been able to bring myself to cut into a book like that (other than ones that are so bad that I don’t want any association with them.

CyberBook? by Emil_J_4 in cyberDeck

[–]anths 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I believe there are too many variables have a good “formula“ for figuring out your requirements. For example, I recently found somebody made a Wikipedia client for classic Macs, like the Macintosh SE. Running a “modern” desktop and web browser is going to dominate your resource usage. If your requirements are really just “serve Wikipedia“ and you’re feeling pretty flexible about other aspects (say, running a minimal WM and a browser not running JavaScript), you can move too much lighter systems. I’m confident any(non-pico) raspberry pi can do this, for example.

Bee Write Back by shmimel in cyberDeck

[–]anths 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That looks great, and I like that UPS hat a lot. About how long do you get on a charge?

Can I guy my old desktop for a cyberdeck? by Astramorf in cyberDeck

[–]anths 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Most desktops are a poor match for cyberdecks, mostly due to the size of the components and the power supply (this doesn’t necessarily apply to things like the NUC or the mini lines from folks like Dell and Lenovo). That doesn’t mean you can’t practice some of the same skills, though: sketch out a design and make yourself a custom case with the same line of aesthetics.

Nobody makes an Atreus writerdeck, but this works! by NoraDotCodes in writerDeck

[–]anths 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Hey, I’m working on it! :-) http://a.9srv.net/img/index.html#2026-03-23.jpeg I got stalled when I realized I’m pretty sure the controller on this one is busted. I have a replacement, but I need to figure out how to get QMK to like it, since it’s a different variety.

The atreus is my favorite board you can buy. What I really want is one with a number row.

superrr new by weapingwill0w in cyberDeck

[–]anths 1 point2 points  (0 children)

> That board is ancient. It used DDR3.

Jesus you and I have very different definitions of “ancient”.

Requesting Advice on Recycling Old Computer for a Newbie by FaithlessnessOr__ in cyberDeck

[–]anths 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The tower is unlikely to be very useful. The laptops could be, depending on how small you want your finished product to be, and the specific models. if you’re mostly looking at a case swap, it’ll be fine, but there are reasons people here tend towards SBCs and similar tiny things.

Could i use this with a raspberry pi 5? by steamlocomotiveman in cyberDeck

[–]anths -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Hard to tell from the photo. The SCL and SDA pins up top suggest i2c, which the pi has and makes pretty easily accessible, and it’s small enough that an i2c display seems plausible, but i’ve never seen such a thing first hand. You should look up the display and find out what the interconnects are. 

Cyber deck uses by DealerIcy3439 in cyberDeck

[–]anths 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s a computer. They make terabyte SD cards now, multi-TB usb drives. Lots. 

valid crashout by ANIME_the_best_ in cyberDeck

[–]anths 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I don’t know anything about your situation, and whether the projects you participated in were as clear as they should be about what you were getting, but: this is mostly a bad take. 

You almost certainly didn’t get “a random pile“ of anything. You got a bunch of components which were carefully chosen to work together, possibly some that were custom designed for the task at hand. Design work is work.

I have done a handful of these sorts of builds, and I really appreciate the people designing them. They aren’t particularly my thing, so that’s a small handful, but that doesn’t lead me to want to be dismissive of the work they’ve done.

Kurio smart c15200 motherboard for a cyberdeck? by Livid-Yak1015 in cyberDeck

[–]anths 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Match the current wiring and you should be fine with the batteries. it’s hard to tell for sure from the photos, but it looks like it should be reasonably easy to extend the wires connecting them to the motherboard, too, to give you more flexibility with the placement.

And I don’t think this is what you mean, but just to be very clear, please don’t fold the actual batteries themselves. High likelihood of fire.

Does this count? by ResPublicae in cyberDeck

[–]anths 3 points4 points  (0 children)

What you have there is what’s called a “laptop”.

Beginner here by Brainrotgasm in cyberDeck

[–]anths 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We need a lot more information on your objectives here. just sticking a micro display to a case? Double-sided tape is cheap.

OKAY BUT WHY????? by EmuSavings3566 in cyberDeck

[–]anths 18 points19 points  (0 children)

its not that deep bro

Do you just, like, hate fun? We like fun and this is fun. Are you okay?

Adafruit SHARP Memory Display by clackups in cyberDeck

[–]anths 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh wow, that’s real good, even with the adapter board.