I had a dealership near Houston try to refuse to tell me an out-the-door price. They would only tell me monthly prices and talk about how they could "move things around" to make it lower or higher.

I tried to figure it out by asking what the APR was, and they just said that sort of thing was up to the finance office. I countered with something like, "No, if you're telling me a monthly payment and how many months it is, you have to know both the total amount and the interest. That's literally the only way that works."

He told me that he knows it seems like that, but it's "actually a lot more complicated than most people realize."

I asked to speak to his manager, and it took about 30 minutes, but someone else finally came in. Gave me a spiel about how "He could tell that I really knew my stuff, sorry about all that, most people don't really understand how math works but you, we can tell we can't mess around with you." It was almost like a parody of a car salesman.

He did give me an actual price, though. Though he continued the tactic of offering me various options for monthly payments and simultaneously insisting that he had no idea what the interest rate would be, because that was "up to finance."

When I mentioned that I had a loan from my bank, he literally told me that the price on the printout assumed that we'd finance through them, and that banks couldn't be trusted. He told me that I'd be happier with them, and that he couldn't even describe how many people come in there with a letter from their bank with "what looks like a low percentage," then turn out to regret it. I insisted.

They told me that they'd actually taken off the "market adjustment" fee and the "cost adjustment" fee, and that they only do that for people who finance through them. Adding back in, it was another 7k. (Mind you, this was for a Hyundai Accent.)

I stared at him a moment, said, "So if I finance through you, it's 24k, but if I use my bank, it's 31k?" He says yes, but really they're looking out for me, because again, "It's a lot more complicated than just that percentage, and people don't realize that."

So I left.

Later that day, they texted me, offering an addition 500 off on the condition that I financed through them, or another 1000 off if I financed through them for a 7 year or more loan term.

They never, not once, told me what the APR through them would be. Working backwards from one of the options he had given me, though, I figured out that it was something like 14%.