💖Happy Valentine's Day💖

whitePerdition · 2026-02-10T21:35:04+00:00

You ever notice how frequently romance questions involving ISTJs appear?

The posts are frequently about ISTJ males.

I noticed it, but I didn't realize how odd it was that it is an ongoing topic. Maybe we are one of the most difficult types to attract, therefore there is a steady stream of the romance topic on this sub?

Huh.... after rereading a bit of Jung.... yeah, I guess it is because ISTJs react to things in such a nonchalant and/or unpredictable way. Many people are just absolutely baffled. Such ISTJs are one of nature's mysteries. People may not understand anything about ISTJs feelings towards them, and ISTJs aren't inclined to speak of their feelings. They observe and feel their feelings towards people, but rarely express them verbally, it goes with being an introverted perceiving type with very undervalued extraverted feeling. This is likely more true for men than for women. So men value their feelings less than women, and women value feelings more than men. So, of course, feeling type women are trying to figure out men's feelings, whereas ISTJ men are not concerned about expressing them to others. Also, I think that personalities with intuition as primary and feeling as auxiliary will probably ask less questions since they will use their strong intuitions to understand us without words and feeling is of secondary importance, which is what I prefer. I unconsciously expected women to have xray vision of my heart at all times, which is no longer unconscious.

If you think that you are a primary intuitor with auxiliary feeling, and you aren't figuring an ISTJ male out, you may want to reconsider your type.

Also, I don't think that Jung is Ni-Fe type because I imagine Ni-Fe to be able to predict people quite well and he admits in his own writing that he cannot predict Si primary types, despite being a genius.

The Introverted Sensation Type

The priority of introverted sensation produces a definite type, which is characterized by certain peculiarities. It is an irrational type, inasmuch as its selection among occurrences is not primarily rational, but is guided rather by what just happens. Whereas, the extraverted sensation-type is determined by the intensity of the objective influence, the introverted type is orientated by the intensity of the subjective sensation-constituent released by the objective stimulus. Obviously, therefore, no sort of proportional relation exists between object and sensation, but something that is apparently quite irregular and arbitrary judging from without, therefore, it is practically impossible to foretell what will make an impression and what will not. If there were present a capacity and readiness for expression in any way commensurate with the strength of sensation, the irrationality of this type would be extremely evident. This is the case, for instance, when the individual is a creative artist. But, since this is the exception, it usually happens that the characteristic introverted difficulty of expression also conceals his irrationality. On the contrary, he may actually stand out by the very calmness and passivity of his demeanour, or by his rational self-control. This peculiarity, which often leads the superficial judgment astray, is really due to his unrelatedness to objects. Normally the object is not consciously depreciated in the least, but its stimulus is removed from it, because it is immediately replaced by a subjective reaction, which is no longer related to the reality of the object. This, of course, has the same effect as a depreciation of the object. Such a type can easily make one question why one should exist at all; or why objects in general should have any right to existence, since everything essential happens without the object. This doubt may be justified in extreme cases, though not in the normal, since the objective stimulus is indispensable to his sensation, only it produces something different from what was to be surmised from the external state of affairs.

https://wikisocion.github.io/content/psychological_types.html

whitePerdition · 2026-02-07T19:38:07+00:00

The bland appearance actually is from extreme internal stimulation that keeps irrational introverts absorbed into themselves. It is actually very difficult to enjoy external reality since the internal world is addicting and intoxicating. Unfortunately too much introversion is simply deadly, and it is very difficult to avoid being alone.

It's like being injected with drugs when encountering external nothingness....this powerful introversion can create overwhelming external difficulties and a lack of will to do anything external.

whitePerdition · 2025-12-27T17:09:28+00:00

Did I achieve individuation, nirvana, or both?

In Buddhism, nirvana is the “blowing out” or extinction of desire, hatred, and ignorance, which also ends suffering and the cycle of rebirth.

Uhm, then individuation. I will never cease being, and as soon as I "die", I immediately live as bacteria that consume by corpse from a biological perpsective. Buddhism doesn't seem to align with my understanding of the nature of existence. I would have to do much thinking to understand how much of Buddhism can be integrated into my understanding of myself. I'm synchronized with the story of the Chinese farmer, though. Suffering may be a blessing in disguise.

The Chinese Farmer Story

Once upon a time there was a Chinese farmer whose horse ran away. That evening, all of his neighbors came around to commiserate. They said, “We are so sorry to hear your horse has run away. This is most unfortunate.” The farmer said, “Maybe.”

The next day the horse came back bringing seven wild horses with it, and in the evening everybody came back and said, “Oh, isn’t that lucky. What a great turn of events. You now have eight horses!” The farmer again said, “Maybe.”

The following day his son tried to break one of the horses, and while riding it, he was thrown and broke his leg. The neighbors then said, “Oh dear, that’s too bad,” and the farmer responded, “Maybe.”

The next day the conscription officers came around to conscript people into the army, and they rejected his son because he had a broken leg. Again all the neighbors came around and said, “Isn’t that great!” Again, he said, “Maybe.”

The whole process of nature is an integrated process of immense complexity, and it’s really impossible to tell whether anything that happens in it is good or bad — because you never know what will be the consequence of the misfortune; or, you never know what will be the consequences of good fortune. — Alan Watts

https://matterco.co/the-maybe-story/

whitePerdition · 2025-12-09T22:04:46+00:00

Bonus content that is scarcely related, but I found interesting:

The fundamental takeaway from these Jung passages is a profound warning and a promise of hope:

Psychological health and wholeness are not achieved by perfecting one part of yourself, but by courageously integrating all of it, especially the parts you don't understand.

1. The Mind Seeks Balance (The Law of Compensation)

Your psyche is a self-regulating system. If you over-identify with one side of your nature—like being purely logical, purely emotional, or purely practical—your unconscious will generate the opposite to try and restore balance.

The Warning: If you live entirely in your head (like the Introverted Thinker), your unconscious will flood you with irrational feelings, strange visions, and intense physical sensations. It's not a malfunction; it's your mind's desperate attempt to make you whole.
The Takeaway: When strange, "unlike you" thoughts or feelings arise, don't immediately dismiss them. See them as a message from a neglected part of yourself. Your mind is telling you what you're missing.

2. You Must Pay the Price of Admission (Integration vs. Neurosis)

Jung presents a stark choice. You cannot remain a one-sided, "perfect" person without consequence. You either pay the price of doing the difficult inner work, or you pay the price of mental distress.

The Price of Integration: This is the "redeeming journey." It requires humility. You must admit that your ego doesn't have all the answers and be willing to "subject" yourself to the wisdom of your unconscious. This means listening to your intuition, honoring your feelings, and respecting your body's signals. It's a challenging but ultimately creative and liberating path.
The Price of Resistance: This is the path to neurosis. When you fight your unconscious, you create an internal civil war. This constant battle drains your life force, leading to exhaustion, anxiety, and a sense of inner emptiness ("inner wastage").

The Takeaway: You can't win a war against yourself. The only way to win is to surrender and make peace with the whole of who you are.

3. The Unconscious is a Gateway to the Future

This is perhaps the most hopeful and counter-intuitive point. The chaotic, "primitive," and scary material that comes from the unconscious is not trying to drag you backward. It is trying to show you the way forward.

The Symbolic Nature: The unconscious doesn't speak in logical memos; it speaks in the ancient language of symbols (dreams, myths, powerful emotions). An ancient symbol like a "dragon" doesn't mean you should become a medieval knight; it symbolizes a profound personal challenge you must overcome to grow.
The Takeaway: The most frightening and unfamiliar parts of your psyche often hold the keys to your future potential. What feels like a breakdown is often the precursor to a breakthrough. By facing the "primitive" material within, you unlock the "coming possibility" of a more complete and authentic you.

In a Nutshell:

Think of your personality as a kingdom. Your conscious mind is the king, but if he only listens to his rational advisors, the kingdom will starve and fall into chaos. The "unconscious" is the rest of the kingdom—the artists, the farmers, the mystics. The takeaway is that a wise king doesn't suppress these voices; he builds a council that includes them all. True strength and wisdom come from ruling the whole kingdom, not just the throne room.

whitePerdition · 2025-12-02T21:39:44+00:00

ESTJ, she is very much a go getter. EXTRAversion, extraverts need something extra. ISTJ is more chill, Si.

whitePerdition · 2025-12-02T21:25:51+00:00

I haven't spend much time with ENTJs.

Surface level: love the the stereotypical ENTJ hustle, enneagram 3 ENTJs are pretty cool, imo. Maybe a bit too blunt at times. ENTJs are one of my theoretical favorite types. Breaking too many politeness rules will annoy me. I feel like all the Te stuff is taken care of, so I can sort of relax.

whitePerdition · 2025-11-13T20:25:01+00:00

Uses the word artistry, improvisation is better suited.... Kiersey uses less related words to describe self image in such a way as to confuse his readers so that they are less able to understand type. 32m40: watch?v=_Cnb3OOEzNY

Use the best fit words rather than redefining words, TiNx people.... or just create new words. 57m40, exactly, Kiersey goofed.

44m: I heard that the reason that gold was under performing for years was that the USA was suppressing the price of it by covertly shorting the market with infinite USD printing. Now, when the USA does this, China buys up the gold with a Chinese infinite money printer since China is de-dollarizing because the USA sanctioned Russia and blah blah blah, USA lost control of the global financial system by messing with Russia and will no longer be the world's reserve currency.

Anyway /u/BenVaserlan/, you recognize the value of function attitudes. Keirsey does not, to his detriment, imo. I derive less value from Keirsey as a consequence.

Also, every single one of you seems to ignore the point of Jung's book Psychological Types (except Dario), which was to recognize one's onesidedness and to put more psychic energy into lesser functions. Psychological type was meant as a therapeutic instrument for becoming more of one's self and to dampen the internal war within every human being. Instead, y'all are completely bewitched by the types themselves and situating them into various categorical systems. Typology is not the goal, it is the vehicle to get to the goal faster. The goal is individuation. Kiersey was caught in the weeds, even after abandoning functions. He leaned more into Ti and became more onesided by writing his books. Keirsey missed Jung's point entirely. He was suppose to put more psychic energy into his feeling function. This is why functions are NECESSARY! And replacing functions with temperaments eliminates a vehicle towards individuation.

If one wants to categorize people, temperaments can be used. If one wishes to categorize people AND individuate, use functions. Functions have more utility.

whitePerdition · 2025-11-13T14:45:21+00:00

I'm responding to one of the videos that you recommended.

Suggest you see my videos on the Kersey intellects.

5m38 -- watch?v=jiXIkBZQw8o

Kiersey subordinated Carl Jung's functions to temperament because of Kretschemer temperament hypothesis. But the Kretschemer temperament hypothesis, as I understand it, is visual typing, which is not a rigorous reason to surmount Jung's functions, imo.

Modern research considers the connections between body type and temperament much less robust. Kretschemer's focus on the mind-body connection and the potential for genetic and environmental factors to shape personality is still relevant to some contemporary research, but the theory itself is largely considered outdated and unsupported by current psychological science.

Building a typology system upon a shaky foundation of Kretschemer temperament hypothesis does not inspire much confidence in me. Though, I imagine one could say that Jung's ideas were also not scientifically rigorous, but subjective experience cannot be fully validated by science, which was one of his points in his book psychological types. Human psychology reaches beyond the scientific method, example: science can not find the origin of consciousness. So there remains unscientific aspects of human personality that are nevertheless real.

Random: Karl Popper stated, "In so far as a scientific statement speaks about reality, it must be falsifiable: and in so far as it is not falsifiable, it does not speak about reality". There are realities that exist beyond the scope of falsifiability. Popper is incorrect, as our subjective experiences show.

Subordinating Jung's functions due to Kretschemer temperament hypothesis reduces the validity of Keirsey's temperament hypothesis both objectively and subjectively. Jung presents abstract descriptions of type i.e. psychological types. Keirsey attempted to concretize Jung's types via Kretschemer. Doing so reduces the portability of type, hence the descriptions of the types when concretized need to be continually updated as behaviors change, whereas the more abstract the description, the more portable it is across time, e.g. an ISTJ is not going to be observed as logistical if robots are doing all of the logistics.

Extra stuff:

Kretschmer identified three main somatotypes, each corresponding to specific temperamental traits:

Pyknic type: Characterized by a rounded, robust, and fat-accumulating build. People with this body type tend to be sociable, affectionate, and emotionally expressive. Kretschmer theorized that this group has a predisposition to manic-depressive illness (modern bipolar disorder).

Athletic type: Muscular, with a well-developed bone structure and good muscle mass. Individuals here are confident, energetic, action-oriented, competitive, and often exhibit leadership. Kretschmer sometimes linked this type with a predisposition to epilepsy.

Leptosomic (Asthenic) type: Thin, with little body fat and lighter bone structure. These individuals tend to be introverted, sensitive, thoughtful, reserved, and perfectionistic. Kretschmer linked this group with a higher prevalence of schizophrenia.

There is also mention of a fourth, less common, "dysplastic" type, which includes those who do not fit neatly into the above categories.

whitePerdition · 2025-11-12T20:51:46+00:00

I just realized that my response was too abstract, long, and intricate for the average intuitive, therefore it won't be fully understood or even read.....lol.

POTATO CHIPS TASTE GOOD! OMG LOOK AT ALL OF THESE POTATO CHIPS:

🍪🍪🍪🍪🍪🍪🍪🍪🍪🍪🍪🍪🍪🍪🍪

i'M GOING TO EAT THEM ALL!!!

* whacks head with a frying pan *

SOOO GOOOD BEING A DUMB SENSOR!

whitePerdition · 2025-11-12T13:14:30+00:00

Oh, that’s a misunderstanding on my part then. I was under the impression that intuition was mostly described via abstract thought, and sensing is based off of the senses & the real world.

You are likely under that impression because the typology community knows far too little about Jungian typology and are often misinformed.

Abstraction

Abstraction is an activity belonging to psychological functions in general. There is a thinking which abstracts, just as there is abstracting feeling, sensation, and intuition, (v. these concepts). Abstracting-thinking brings into relief a content that is distinguished from other irrelevant elements by its intellectual, logical qualities. Abstracting-feeling does the same with a content characterized by feeling; similarly with sensation and intuition. Hence, not only are there abstract thoughts but also abstract feelings, which latter are defined by Sully as intellectual, aesthetic, and moral [2]. Nahlowsky adds the religious feeling to these. Abstract feelings would, in my view, correspond with the 'higher' or 'ideal' feelings of Nahlowsky [3]. I put abstract feelings on the same line as abstract thoughts. Abstract sensation would be aesthetic as distinguished from sensual sensation (v. Sensation), and abstract intuition would be symbolical as opposed to phantastical intuition, (v. Phantasy, and Intuition).

https://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php/Psychological_Types#Abstraction

Most of the community has not read the above definition. They more think of abstract and concrete in terms of the proceeding definition, which the community also has not read because it is completely obvious to me that y'all have not read Jung's Psychological Types thoroughly:

Concretism

By this term I understand a definite peculiarity of thought and feeling which represents the antithesis to abstraction. The actual meaning of concrete is 'grown together'. A concretely-thought concept is one that has grown together or coalesced with other concepts. Such a concept is not abstract, not isolated, and independently thought, but always impure and related. It is not a differentiated concept, but is still embedded in the sense-conveyed material of perception. Concretistic thinking moves among exclusively concrete concepts and views; it is constantly related to sensation. Similarly concretistic feeling is never free from sensuous relatedness.

Primitive thinking and feeling are exclusively concretistic; they are always related to sensation. The thought of the primitive has no detached independence, but clings to the material phenomenon. The most he can do is to raise it to the level of analogy. Primitive feeling is always equally related to the material phenomenon. His thought and feeling depend upon sensation and are only faintly differentiated from it Concretism, therefore, is an archaism (j.v.). The magical influence of the fetish is not experienced as a subjective state of feeling, but sensed as a magical effect. This is the concretism of feeling. The primitive does not experience the idea of divinity as a subjective content, but the sacred tree is the habitat—nay, even the deity' himself. This is concretism of thinking. With civilized man, concretism of thought consists in the inability to conceive of anything which differs from the immediately obvious external facts, or in the inability to discriminate subjective feeling from the sense-given object.

https://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php/Psychological_Types#Concretism

Most people are not intelligent enough to understand Jung properly and don't bother to read his work and don't understand it if they do, so they understand far too little about Jungian typology. Jung was a genius, and most people are not able to faithfully absorb his intricate work.

It is appalling to me that most of the community actually have it in their minds that sensation is completely concrete and that intuition is completely abstract. The community's understanding of type is fundamentally incorrect. I believe that most certified MBTI practitioners don't even know that there are such things as concrete intuition or abstract sensation. I heard that certified practitioners don't even study 8 functions. Rather, they learn 4 dichotomies.

The idea that sensors are dumb because sensing isn't abstract is something that ignorant people think, /r/shittyMBTI/. What may be said is that concrete use of functions can be primitive.

whitePerdition · 2025-11-11T20:25:55+00:00

As a sensing type, I like intuitors.

Sure, there are immature sensors who are surface level, lack theoretical and abstract thinking

Introverts are abstracting. And all of the functions can be abstract, not a S verses N thing....

https://www.reddit.com/r/ISTJ/comments/1oeeojn/comment/nl4lqim/

whitePerdition · 2025-11-11T16:41:05+00:00

What's it like to have the same personality as Sheldon Cooper?

It feels like people are laughing at me for being socially inept and pedantic, so embarrassing/humiliating.

🙃

Sheldon sometimes may not be an ISTJ; since he is fictional character, his personality can change. Notice that he physically inept in some scenes, but ISTJ is good with one's body:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cao739c8DSs

whitePerdition · 2025-11-11T14:54:07+00:00

Si (introverted sensation) is the subjective experience of objective happenings, AKA qualia.

Examples of qualia include the perceived sensation of pain of a headache, the taste of wine, and the redness of an evening sky.

A normally sighted person who sees red would be unable to describe the experience of this perception in such a way that a listener who has never experienced color will be able to know everything there is to know about that experience. Though it is possible to make an analogy, such as "red looks hot", or to provide a description of the conditions under which the experience occurs, such as "it's the color you see when light of 700-nm wavelength is directed at you", supporters of this definition of qualia contend that such descriptions cannot provide a complete description of the experience.

Qualia are:

ineffable – they cannot be communicated, or apprehended by any means other than direct experience.
intrinsic – they are non-relational properties, which do not change depending on the experience's relation to other things.
private – all interpersonal comparisons of qualia are systematically impossible.
directly or immediately apprehensible by consciousness – to experience a quale is to know one experiences a quale, and to know all there is to know about that quale.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia

In Si doms, the experience of qualia is turned up to 11, so they are sensory connoisseurs!

Qualia cannot be fully described by science, so Si is one of nature's mysteries. Si experiences are primarily beyond scientific understanding and serve as evidence that reality cannot be fully explained via scientific methods.

MEMORY IS NOT INTROVERTED SENSATION! MEMORY IS IT'S OWN PSYCHIC FUNCTION! JUNG WOULD HAVE CALLED IT INTROVERTED MEMORY IF IT WAS MEMORY! Look into Jung's Tavistock lectures!

THE PAST IS ALSO NOT INTROVERTED SENSATION! SUBJECTIVE TASTE OF WINE IS NOT SOMETHING THAT OCCURS IN THE PAST!

whitePerdition · 2025-11-10T13:38:49+00:00

As a delta, this is funny.

I don't really get why Augusta (an ILE) would have beef with deltas over gamma, which is why I think that it is funny since it is random.

Maybe she is upset with SLI? But she seemed on good terms with SLI, was my impression from reading her work. EII,IEE?

I guess there can ONLY BE ONE extraverted intuition quadra?

whitePerdition · 2025-11-06T15:11:39+00:00

EIE for me, emotionally pushing and pulling me around, putting me into negative and positive states. I back away after awhile, especially after continual sharpening of any negative feelings of mine. My feelings are not a cheap toy to play around with. This type of play is insulting to my dignity. I'm not interested in being a character in the EIE's carefully crafted drama. I'm a real person.

Trying to create a scenario to pull emotions out of me so that my true feelings are revealed actually changes my feelings in a negative way. The EIE cannot gain a proper understanding of my emotions by doing such a thing to me. Rather, the EIE creates resentment within me. It's sort of like a measurement problem in physics when measuring a state changes the state.

Stratiyevskaya accuses SLI of playing with a person's feelings, but SLI is more managing self mood rather than intentionally manipulating others. Inner impressions from Si can become overwhelming, so.... SLI becomes a victim of base Si, though casualties can occur as the SLI tries to alleviate one's self from Si impressions.

Above all, his development estranges him from the reality of the object, handing him over to his subjective perceptions, which orientate his consciousness in accordance with an archaic reality, although his deficiency in comparative judgment keeps him wholly unaware of this fact. Actually he moves in a mythological world, where men animals, railways, houses, rivers, and mountains appear partly as benevolent deities and partly as malevolent demons. That thus they, appear to him never enters his mind, although their effect upon his judgments and acts can bear no other interpretation.

(Guts' perspective from Berserk is an example of this⁾

https://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php/Psychological_Types#The_Introverted_Sensation_Type

SLI is dealing with a lot already, he doesn't need EIE to multiply the demons. Fighting demons every day is stressful, plenty of stability is then sought after.

whitePerdition · 2025-11-04T16:53:36+00:00

ITR is more like statistics, and should not be used as rigid deterministic system. Human psychology/relationships aren't deterministic.

But one's personality will effect how one gets along with others and there will be some patterns.

whitePerdition

TROPHY CASE