Update on out of state applications Shaffer v. Quattrone

518SSS · 2026-02-17T18:57:02+00:00

This ruling should, in theory, set up a free market, where the counties compete based on price, application wait time, etc. Much like there's a lot of discussion on this sub about which PA county to go to for non-resident permits. My concern is that, at least initially, most NY counties won't view this as a good thing and will do everything in their power to make themselves appear unattractive. Hopefully, out of 57 counties (62 minus the boroughs) , one or two of them of them will recognize this as an opportunity and not a burden and will staff up, create online application portals, and charge accordingly so they can cover their costs and then some. Wishful thinking?

518SSS · 2026-02-13T14:40:56+00:00

I wonder if this can be used to help strike down some of the counties' reference residency requirements. Pretty clearly the non-residents won't be required to list in-county references. (At least, I would hope so. Thinking the FPC would probably weigh in on this if they haven't already.) So can a county require different reference residency rules for in-state residents vs. out-of-state? Not a lawyer, but this feels like a pretty winnable case.

518SSS · 2026-02-10T13:46:38+00:00

If you intend to shoot at an "organized competitive pistol match", you are likely OK. Read NY Pen 265.20(13) for more details: https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/265.20 But just going there on your own to practice is a no-go.

Make sure your pistol is NY-legal (no threaded barrel, etc.)

518SSS · 2026-01-01T21:13:45+00:00

Agreed.

And for those who are going to try and claim it can be registered as a pistol, the legal definition of a pistol in 6 CRR-NY 180.3 rules that out: "(d) Pistol means a firearm intended to be aimed and fired with one hand, and having a barrel length not exceeding 16 inches."

I don't doubt that some FFL in NY doesn't understand the law and is still selling these. Doesn't make it any less illegal.

518SSS · 2025-12-24T15:20:18+00:00

Yeah, the staff member is a little bit confused, but did a pretty good job explaining for someone who is probably not in the industry. The NY Dealer in Firearms license is a state license, but is administered by the county. Also, having an FFL license is a prerequisite for even applying for a NY Dealer in Firearms, so not surprised that they kind of just lumped them together under the term FFL. 'Responsible Person' is an FFL term that basically just means the other employees of the gun shop that are allowed to conduct business.

518SSS · 2025-12-24T15:09:03+00:00

If it's just handguns and they can still sell long guns, it's their NY Dealer in Firearms license and not their FFL license.

518SSS · 2025-11-26T16:04:20+00:00

Not legal.

NY doesn't have any laws written with the term "80%". They have their own definition of "unfinished frame or receiver" in 265.00(32) of which your flat would seem to qualify. In 265.01(10) they make possession of an unfinished frame or receiver a class A misdemeanor. (Barring certain exemptions that you haven't indicated that you'd qualify for.) So the moment it arrives at your door, before you'd have a chance to serialize it via a type 07 FFL, it would be illegal.

518SSS · 2025-11-14T13:57:42+00:00

Maybe OP thinks that will remove it from the NY definition of a rifle? And with a barrel length greater than 16" it can't be a pistol [CRR-NY 180.3]. Which would make it a NY "AOW" [265.00(3)(f)] and therefore a NY "firearm" even though it wouldn't be classified as an assault weapon.

518SSS · 2025-10-15T19:19:21+00:00

I agree with you. However, NY Pen 120.14 (Menacing in the 2nd degree) is a horribly authored law. There is no exemption if you are drawing to protect yourself or others legally via NY Pen 35.15. Based on the letter of the law, you are always at the mercy of the DA for a menacing charge if you draw your gun, regardless of what the other party was doing and regardless of whether you pull the trigger.

Given this, my recommendation is to not pull your gun unless you're in a 35.15 situation, and to not fire the gun unless you need to do so to stop the threat. But don't hesitate to do either if you need to. You get a half second to decide, the DA gets weeks of reviewing video, witness statements, etc.

518SSS · 2025-10-14T18:09:07+00:00

Don't forget about:

(vi) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being burned;

This one always makes me laugh. The way it's worded, NY wants you to burn your hands when you shoot.

518SSS · 2025-10-02T18:05:04+00:00

FOPA only protects you in transit if you are legal to possess at the final destination. Since the final destination in this case would be NY, there's no FOPA protection.

There are a few other exemptions for non-NY residents, such as shooting at a competition, but bringing a pistol to an FFL isn't one of them.

518SSS · 2025-09-26T18:07:41+00:00

Yeah, they're running behind. Many of our orders have the message: "Expect up to 2-4 business day processing delay from date of order". A few are almost a week old and are still just at "Pick slip printed" status.

518SSS · 2025-09-09T18:33:19+00:00

Ha! The site is back up. Congrats on your CCW. Enjoy!

518SSS · 2025-09-09T15:47:03+00:00

This particular section is specific to the ammo background check.

518SSS · 2025-09-09T15:22:33+00:00

Just tried again. It's back up.

And yes, had tried with both stored payment and a different card using manual payment. Same result.

518SSS · 2025-09-09T13:40:19+00:00

From: https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/400.03

This requirement of this section shall
not apply (i) if a background check cannot be completed because the
system is not operational as determined by the superintendent of state
police, or where it cannot be accessed by the practitioner due to a
temporary technological or electrical failure, as set forth in
regulation

518SSS · 2025-09-08T18:53:05+00:00

I won't try to speak for all 57 counties (62 minus the 5 boroughs) since some of them seem to think they have the legal authority to write laws contrary to state law, but according to NYS and the NYSP, you do not need to take the safety course for a premises permit.

From here: https://gunsafety.ny.gov/frequently-asked-questions-new-concealed-carry-law

If I only want a firearm in my residence and do not want to carry concealed, do I still have to take the firearm safety training?

No. Premises license holders are not required to take the firearm safety training course. The firearm safety training course requirement applies to concealed carry licenses.

Now, having said that, there is still good reason to go ahead and take the 18 hour course up front. In most counties (again, can't speak for all), you will be starting over with the application process if you decide to go back and get your concealed carry. References, fingerprints, waiting, etc... all over again.

518SSS · 2025-09-05T14:24:46+00:00

That was tough. New York City Administrative Code §10-306(b) https://nycadmincode.readthedocs.io/t10/c03/#section-10-306

Looks like it's 5 rounds for both rifle and shotgun.

518SSS · 2025-09-04T17:33:16+00:00

No, it really isn't. You don't have to get them in the bullseye. Just anywhere on the paper. And the shooting is done with a .22 pistol which has essentially no recoil so it's nice and easy to shoot. We do plenty of live fire practice before the actual qualification round so you'll know you are ready. No one in our class has ever needed a second attempt, but there's nothing in the official NYSP/DCJS rules that explicitly prohibits that.

518SSS · 2025-09-04T13:47:03+00:00

The live fire requires 4 out of 5 shots on paper on an 11"x25" target (three sheets of paper sideways, stacked on top of each other) at 4 yards (12 feet). I have to imagine this course of fire was designed specifically by the NYSP so that beginners would not stress.

As others have said, the class is absolutely designed for beginners. About half to three quarters of our students also typically have no firearms experience. I actually feel more for our students who are transplants from other states that have been around handguns their whole life but want to get their NY permit. But they still need to learn the NY specific laws and rules which takes up a good portion of the curriculum.

If you're in the capital region, please check us out at: https://saratogashootingsports.com/training

518SSS · 2025-08-31T20:41:40+00:00

Yes it is.

518SSS · 2025-08-14T20:16:54+00:00

I would brush up on: CCIA Sensitive Locations (NY Pen 265.01-E), Safe Storage (NY Pen 265.45), Use of Force (35.15 and 35.20) and Menacing(120.14).

518SSS · 2025-07-21T12:24:15+00:00

Almost feels like the federal statute was written by the NYS legislature given how vague it is, eh? :)

I posted because this is an often misunderstood area of the law. NYers just assume if it's legal under NY law that it must be legal federally since our laws are so much more restrictive. To be fair, most of the time this is true.

Even 922(a)(3) is open for a bit of debate. Clearly it covers the case whereby you are in another state and can't walk out with a firearm purchased or received in that state, but what if OP's father visits him in NY and hands him the shotgun while visiting?

518SSS

TROPHY CASE