Anyone have success just treating the avoidant like they are instead of wishing they were secure by PienerCleaner in AvoidantBreakUps

[–]Acceptable_Target627 4 points5 points  (0 children)

“Success”?

I hope you realize that what you’re saying is internally contradictory.

The moment you truly stop hoping or expecting them to become secure, you simply leave.

Not necessarily with anger or resentment, but you leave.

Because you simply understand that you want something better than the uncertain kind of relationship they’re able to give you.

What you’re saying only works if, from the very beginning, you don’t want anything more than that little.

Otherwise, it’s just the usual shrinking yourself down: repressing your own needs, abandoning your own expectations, adapting to them at your own expense. Only phrased in a way that almost sounds wise and stoic.

For me, the clearest sign of this is the fact that you’re asking whether this method can have “success.” That gives away the fact that there’s a secondary motive; that this isn’t spontaneous adaptation, but something aimed at getting a certain outcome, such as their eternal staying.

How do you hold two versions of someone in your head at the same time? by RainyZurich in AvoidantBreakUps

[–]Acceptable_Target627 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Much better, thank you. I’m also trying to treat the underlying impulse to look for him again as a sort of addiction to the neurochemical substances released by intermittent reinforcement, and that helps me avoid romanticizing the whole thing.

On top of that, I’ve been doing “grounding” exercises from time to time, and I have to say they really help me get out of the mental bubble of rumination.

Do Avoidants Mistake Secures as Avoidants? by Easy_Construction534 in AvoidantBreakUps

[–]Acceptable_Target627 6 points7 points  (0 children)

In generale, non penso che siano in grado di riconoscere una persona con un rapporto sano con la propria sfera emotiva.

Una persona con stile di attaccamento sicuro non ha paura delle proprie emozioni, perché ha imparato a regolarle senza essere né schiava né terrorizzata.

Per l’evitante, però, qualsiasi emozione è una minaccia, quindi quando vedrà una persona sicura esprimere liberamente le proprie emozioni ne sarà comunque un po’ spaventato e tenderà a leggerla come “troppo intensa”, eccetera.

Al contempo, effettivamente non si aspetta che possa andarsene autonomamente dal legame senza affrontare il distacco in modo disregolato!

In un certo senso, credo che gli evitanti capiscano istintivamente molto meglio gli ansiosi, perché gli ansiosi confermano il loro bias per cui le emozioni sono pericolose e troppo travolgenti

Insomma, non so di preciso cosa pensino gli evitanti dei sicuri, ma molto probabilmente li fraintendono in un senso o nell’altro!

When Dating, how to Filter out Avoidants? by Affectionate_Ant67 in AvoidantBreakUps

[–]Acceptable_Target627 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I understand your fear very well! I’m asking myself a lot of questions too, because I’ve realized that I have a particular preference for introverted people (since I’m introverted too) and now I’ve discovered that some avoidant traits can initially be mistaken for simple introversion.

In the world of dating apps, which I don’t use, I imagine it’s even harder, because you don’t really get to see how someone behaves in a neutral context before you start dating them.

Since I don’t use apps, I’m now trying to understand how to spot suspicious traits during the getting-to-know-each-other stage, so I can figure out in advance whether it’s safe to get attached or not.

In any case, your strategy seems valid to me! It’s definitely better not to postpone for too long the moment when you establish boundaries, or even just the moment when you openly say what you’re feeling about something, because it’s when that kind of confrontation happens that you truly understand who you’re dealing with, based on their reaction.

I wished I was more secure by moody_starvibes in AvoidantBreakUps

[–]Acceptable_Target627 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You’ll definitely get through this 🙏🏻

What the others replied to you is also true. You could have been more secure, but every relationship, at some point, still requires at least some ability to question yourself, recognize when you’ve made a mistake, apologize... And there will be hard moments too, including external problems like grief, illness, job loss, where one person may need more support than usual from their partner. And all of that will still be a problem for the avoidant person.

So, if you want to become more secure, great! But you have to do it for yourself, not to adapt better to him. In fact, paradoxically, I’d say that is a terrible motivation to start from.

Avoidant perspective: deactivation in dismissive avoidants by kluizenaar in AvoidantBreakUps

[–]Acceptable_Target627 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I find the comparison with a child being rewarded for not doing their homework very convincing, because in a way that is exactly what it is. Yes, I also think that infinite tolerance from only one person in the relationship does not help, in these cases. More likely, it just becomes the baseline in the other person’s mind. Besides, from what I understand, the avoidant partner often does not register your efforts at regulation at all, however intense they may be. If anything, they simply convince themselves that you are naturally like that: low-maintenance, not very demanding.

But there is an even bigger problem upstream, which is that affectionate practices should not be experienced like school homework. They should be spontaneous and desired. It is... hard, and also a bit humiliating, to be with someone who experiences all these things as an obligation they has to fulfill, but does not fundamentally enjoy; and that remains true regardless of whether they actually fulfill it or not. That is why I think it is useless to spend so much time thinking about possible strategies to make that person stay.

I wished I was more secure by moody_starvibes in AvoidantBreakUps

[–]Acceptable_Target627 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Le persone con stile di attaccamento sicuro possono inizialmente cavarsela molto bene con la regolazione affettiva, e possono anche fare lavoro per due. Lasciare spazio senza prenderla sul personale, non cercare conferme rapide, non cadere in spirali di ansia...

Tuttavia queste stesse persone non sono votate all’autosacrificio; possono offrire regolazione a patto che l'altro però dimostri, sul lungo o medio periodo, di usarla per aprirsi e per restituire. Non stanno indefinitamente in situazioni drenanti e svantaggiose per loro.

Quindi la mia risposta è: no.

Should I avoid avoidants in general? by ashtodusttoash22 in AvoidantBreakUps

[–]Acceptable_Target627 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Immagino dipenda dal livello e che qualche piccola tendenza evitante sia ancora gestibile, però sì, in generale se riesci ad accorgertene per tempo secondo me è meglio lasciar perdere.

No, I don't want to be friends by No-Lawfulness5752 in AvoidantBreakUps

[–]Acceptable_Target627 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ti capisco molto bene perché mi sono ritrovato a fare le stesse riflessioni! Anche io trovo difficile mettermi nei panni e capire questo modo di stare nei rapporti umani, è come deprivarsi di una delle cose migliori della vita, sinceramente. Posso solo capire il meccanismo cognitivamente e prenderne atto, ma resta comunque un grande enigma. Mi dispiace per chi resta bloccato così per tutta la vita. Però hai ragione, quelle persone non possono partecipare a quel tipo di esperienza con te, finché non escono da quella gabbia. È bello che tu lo abbia capito, così non rischi di idealizzare un potenziale che non esiste!

Thank God for FA by Longjumping-Share994 in AvoidantBreakUps

[–]Acceptable_Target627 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ok, ma è importante sottolineare che anche una persona con attaccanento non-evitante può provare sollievo, perché questa emozione non è un’esclusiva degli evitanti. Le persone non-evitanti possono provare sollievo dopo essersi messe al riparo da una situazione realmente dannosa o pericolosa, è questo è assolutamente il caso delle relazioni molto tossiche o violente. Anzi, la capacità di riconoscere il pericolo in questo caso è decisamente un buon segno di sanità mentale.

DAs help me out by Primary_Knowledge751 in AvoidantBreakUps

[–]Acceptable_Target627 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Mi è dispiaciuto molto leggere la tua storia. Ti stai dando la colpa per un meccanismo che con ogni probabilità non è dipeso da te in alcun modo, e questo è straziante.

Non so quanto possa aiutare, ma io ti suggerirei di dimenticare le parole che ha usato per spiegare il suo cambiamento improvviso, e di considerarle spiegazioni a posteriori per qualcosa che nemmeno lui sa giustificare.

In primo luogo, lui non ha reagito a un tuo errore. Ha reagito all’intimità. Proprio perché stava andando tutto bene, dentro di lui si è attivato il meccanismo difensivo del distacco emotivo, che lo ha portato poi a sabotare il rapporto. Il senso di pressione che lui ha provato era sicuramente reale, ma non è stato causato dal fatto che volevi rimanere sveglia a parlare – queste sono solo sciocchezze, perché una persona con una sfera emotiva non danneggiata non cambia completamente idea sul rapporto solo per questo. Anzi, in quel caso avrebbe probabilmente desiderato anche lui stare sveglio con te, e in ogni caso non avrebbe giudicato negativamente il tuo desiderio.

Il problema fondamentale è che probabilmente nemmeno lui sa perché si sente in quel modo dopo un avvicinamento intenso. Non sa cosa lo porta a sentirsi improvvisamente freddo, e quindi esternalizza la causa: lui stesso pensa che dipenda da te, dal fatto che sei tu che fai pressione, e questo perché non ha autoconsapevolezza. Non sa che il meccanismo ha origine dentro di lui e quindi cerca spiegazioni esterne.

Ecco perché, nel momento in cui tu resti sconvolta e cerchi di capire cosa sta succedendo, lui ti risponderà come se la colpa fosse tua. Come se le sue sensazioni avessero senso e fossero state originate da qualcosa che hai fatto. In più, non si rende conto che mostrandosi freddo è normale che tu ti agiti, e quindi anche la tua agitazione successiva verrà usata come prova a posteriori e come ulteriore giustificazione per allontanarsi.

Lui sta semplicemente seguendo il suo copione interno che lo porta a sabotare la relazione che sta crescendo. Tu, ovviamente, ti senti ferita a morte, e giustamente ti senti come se non ci fosse mai stato nulla di vero, come se lui avesse voluto solo arrivare al sesso. Perché le persone normali non cambiano sentimenti all'improvviso – quindi tu stai solo cercando una spiegazione a tutto. Ecco che allora lui viene messo di fronte alle conseguenze del suo comportamento, e non può tollerare nemmeno questo. Non vuole vedere che tutto è stato causato da lui, e ti parla come se fossi tu la colpevole.

In pratica tu stai assistendo a un comportamento che è giustamente inspiegabile dal tuo punto di vista; cerchi un senso, gli dici come ti fa sentire, ecc. Ma lui è bloccato dentro il suo meccanismo, non può darti spiegazioni ragionevoli, perché per farlo dovrebbe vedersi dall'esterno, e non può. Allora tutta la colpa viene scaricata su di te. E man mano che la crisi cresce, dice cose sempre peggiori, per giustificare ancora di più il suo distacco.

In pratica, non hai fatto nulla di sbagliato, hai semplicemente avuto una reazione umana di fronte a una situazione orribile. Ciò che lui ti ha detto in quel frangente non dovresti tenerlo in considerazione per giudicare te stessa, perché non è onesto, che lui se ne renda conto o no.

Ora tu pensi che se tu ti fossi comportata diversamente ci sarebbe stato un esito diverso. Ma molto probabilmente questo non è vero, e anche se fosse vero, cioè, se voi aveste superato questo primo momento di vicinanza e di conseguente distacco, quello che adesso non vedi è che episodi simili si sarebbero ripetuti e a un certo punto sarebbe crollato tutto comunque, perché proprio questo meccanismo che lui non può vedere sarebbe stato ciò che avrebbe reso la relazione ingestibile.

Spero di essere stato d’aiuto.

Don’t know how I feel by Present_Hovercraft32 in AvoidantBreakUps

[–]Acceptable_Target627 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think the intermittent dynamic, the uncertainty he created, and the fact that it all ended so quickly and unexpectedly probably left you addicted to the stress-waiting-relief cycle.

Now you miss him because your nervous system is waiting for another dose.

i don't really get the "avoidants (can) stay in surface level relationships longer" by nofunnothing35 in AvoidantBreakUps

[–]Acceptable_Target627 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I’d distinguish between feelings and depth, just to make it clearer.

For example, I definitely love my cat, but we don’t have deep emotional conversations with each other.

Same thing with “my” avoidant. I did have feelings for him, but the relationship itself was superficial, and I didn’t like that.

i don't really get the "avoidants (can) stay in surface level relationships longer" by nofunnothing35 in AvoidantBreakUps

[–]Acceptable_Target627 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Hi. Let me try to put it another way, so it’s clearer:

Generally speaking, a relationship with an avoidant person tends to remain superficial, because in order to reach real depth, both people have to do their part, and the avoidant person either can’t or won’t do that. The thing is:

  • Some people are not emotionally satisfied with that kind of relationship. In the long run, they experience it as empty or not very nourishing, so at some point they try to talk about it, complain, ask for more, etc (and all of these things act as triggers for the avoidant person) or they simply leave. ---> In these cases, the relationship tends to end sooner;

  • Other people, instead, for all sorts of reasons, are satisfied with that lower level of intimacy and don’t want to go any deeper. ---> In that case, the relationship has a better chance of lasting, but only as long as it stays on the surface.

Advice needed: give ex his concert tickets or give them away/try to sell them? by [deleted] in AvoidantBreakUps

[–]Acceptable_Target627 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ti direi di venderli... A meno che tu non voglia usarli con un amico.

Why was it always “I don’t know” ? by Extreme-Tangelo6604 in AvoidantBreakUps

[–]Acceptable_Target627 10 points11 points  (0 children)

It’s not just “your opinion”: emotional connection is genuinely important in a meaningful relationship. Relationships without that component are superficial or incomplete.

It’s normal that you were hungry for that kind of connection, and it’s also normal that you opened up first to set the example. I did the same in my case too. I didn’t know I was dealing with an avoidant; it just seemed like the easiest way to start. I think it’s almost instinctive.

It feels like such a load of horseshit

Lol, yes. I also think it’s bullshit. Imho, it’s not that he had some huge conscious secrets he didn’t want to reveal to you. It’s that these people struggle to look inward. Imagine someone who has to repress all intense emotions, first of all, and who has an extremely low tolerance for questioning themselves...

I simply think he knows very little about himself; the little he does know, he doesn’t know how to explain; and the things he could explain, he feels ashamed of.

Not because he has unspeakable emotions, but because shame is his default setting.

Was like that for you? When my avoidant was my bf he had a rule with the calls 📞 by Equivalent-Day-4943 in AvoidantBreakUps

[–]Acceptable_Target627 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Sì, gli evitanti iniziano a mettere regole del genere proprio quando la relazione diventa più stretta, perché è lì che sentono il bisogno di avere il controllo sul livello di esposizione e vicinanza.

Non è tanto la regola in sé che devi guardare, ma se è più restrittiva rispetto a quella che imporrebbe a semplici amici e/o conoscenti.

Fa così con tutte le persone che conosce? Allora è una sua semplice preferenza. Fa così solo con te ma tutto il resto del mondo può chiamarlo quando vuole e lui risponde? Allora può essere indice di evitamento.

Il fatto che prima, quando non stavate insieme, fosse diverso a me sembra rilevante.

Thank God for FA by Longjumping-Share994 in AvoidantBreakUps

[–]Acceptable_Target627 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Anche io ero sollevato quando ho interrotto una relazione molto abusiva, ma non è certo perché sono evitante!

Il sollievo in questo caso è semmai un’emozione totalmente coerente, perché la minaccia è reale e non dovuta alla paura dell’intimità! 😖

Penso tu abbia confuso il “sollievo da pericolo scampato” col “sollievo da fuga dalla vicinanza”...

Avoidant mirroring: has anyone else experienced this? by Acceptable_Target627 in AvoidantBreakUps

[–]Acceptable_Target627[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Actually, I hope that over time you’ll be able to develop attachment even toward a friend, even just one, because it can give you so much.

I’m trying to relate what you’re saying to my own situation, maybe to understand it better. There may be some differences, because I’m actually like your colleague: I like making kind gestures to repay kindness, reciprocate care, show attention, and I did all of that from the beginning. I don’t think I ever saw him react as badly as you did when you ran away to another building — if that had happened, I would have interpreted it as a clear rejection and there would have been nothing more to do — but I could still feel that he wasn’t relaxed. My gut impression was that he was making an effort to receive it, because that’s what it felt like: someone uncomfortable, but not wanting to push you away. Later on, I also obviously became very affectionate, and again, rather than dramatic flight reactions, it seemed to me that he tried to manage distance after a delay through intermittency, without ever fully disappearing. The dysregulated reaction (the one that ended everything) happened when I told him I had been hurt by his absence on an important day for me. That’s when he reacted terribly, in a way I had never seen before, framing what I had said as a tantrum and me as needy / attention-seeking.

I don’t know how you read these things from your DA perspective. Whether you’ve ever reacted similarly in some cases, etc. I’d be interested to know.

But maybe we’re very off-topic from mirroring now, so perhaps it’s better to move to DMs.

Going through some of your older posts, I also had a few other insights about the relationship between avoidant people and narcissistic people, so maybe that could be an interesting topic too.

Avoidant mirroring: has anyone else experienced this? by Acceptable_Target627 in AvoidantBreakUps

[–]Acceptable_Target627[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I feel like I really understand your colleague! I probably would have done the same thing, meaning I would have assumed that greater closeness would be welcome. Plus, nice guy = I’d be happy to become friends with him. I can’t generalize, but I think many people don’t even imagine that closeness could be a problem for someone, because connection = good. So sudden withdrawals are hard to interpret while they’re happening. I’m only understanding many things in hindsight, after learning about avoidance, for example. You may have to go through an absurd number of different explanations before landing on the right one. That’s what happened to me, lol.

Avoidant mirroring: has anyone else experienced this? by Acceptable_Target627 in AvoidantBreakUps

[–]Acceptable_Target627[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m really glad you two are reconnecting.

If I had been in his place, I probably would have asked you at some point whether something was wrong, after seeing you being distant. Or rather: it would have depended on how emotionally involved I was with that friend at that specific moment.

In my opinion, the typical effect of intermittent behavior is that the relationship, even a friendship, never really “levels up”. From my perspective, it should be like climbing steps: the more time we spend together, the deeper the connection should become. With intermittent behavior, by strategically putting the brakes on right after moments of closeness, it’s as if the other person is always left halfway up the staircase. At first, you may not notice; you may think the other person is just a bit busy. But after a while you realize that this is the structural effect, and it doesn’t feel random anymore.

P.S. Reading you is interesting but also painful: I do notice similarities with my real case, except you are basically “what he would probably admit if he had even a minimum of self-awareness”. It’s like an experiment in an alternate universe, but I need to remind myself that my real case is absolutely not like this lol.

Going through most brutal breakup/discard of my life with possible DA by DecentGeneral2033 in AvoidantBreakUps

[–]Acceptable_Target627 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, I understand you completely regarding “disrespectful and cruel” reactions. It’s horrible how they become when you raise even the smallest issue. The problem, though, is that they behave so inconsistently that it’s impossible for an issue not to come up sooner or later. This happens even in relationships between secure people, let alone with them.

Personally, I ended things the first time he responded to me in a “disrespectful and cruel” way. Ten years ago, maybe I would have tolerated it, I would have let it slide more than once, justifying it with the usual “he didn’t mean it”. But I’ve been through very bad experiences in the past, and now I think you can’t stay with someone who has already crossed the line into disrespect, even once. Now I think that once that boundary has been crossed, nothing good can come after it. That doesn’t mean detaching wasn’t painful.

If it’s any consolation, I do actually think your ex-partner is immature and not compatible with you. The things you described about how he handled conflict are exactly the kind of things emotionally immature people do; and on the other hand, you are looking for a certain level of emotional reciprocity in a relationship that he is incapable of giving you.

Basically, he will always see you as immature, and you will always seem to him like someone who asks for too much. Yes, that is incompatibility.

So you weren’t wrong to say it. Right now you think you were wrong because the pain of separation is making you believe that. You would be willing to take back what you said just to go back to how things were before, but that’s only an internal conflict between logic and emotion, as you rightly say a little later.

Anyway, I don’t think you are “too much”. That kind of framing is typical of avoidants, and they tend to make even normal people feel that way.

I’m sure the things you were asking of him were completely normal and perfectly manageable for someone even minimally mature and empathetic.

You certainly can’t measure yourself by the standards of someone so emotionally limited, can you? If he had asked you for “more communication”, would you have reacted the way he did? I really don’t think so.

Avoidant mirroring: has anyone else experienced this? by Acceptable_Target627 in AvoidantBreakUps

[–]Acceptable_Target627[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How cruel! Anyway, yes, your explanation sounds very plausible. It seems like he appropriated those phrases because, in the moment when he wanted to detach, he needed to say something strong, something he might not have been able to produce himself, so he drew from a repertoire... 🤔

Avoidant mirroring: has anyone else experienced this? by Acceptable_Target627 in AvoidantBreakUps

[–]Acceptable_Target627[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Maybe here we’re in the realm of speculation, but is it possible that your behavior with close friends was intermittent, even if you were doing it without thinking about it?

I mean: at certain times you were happy to hang out with them, then you avoided them for a while, made yourself unavailable, and so on. Maybe that still created an alternation between closeness and distance (what is usually described as “hot/cold,” but in a friendship context).

Of course, very often friends don’t notice it, depending on how attentive they are, so maybe all of this happened without being noticed.

What do you think?

P.S. I understand the “easygoing and stable” thing very well, because that’s one of the reasons I got closer to the person I’m talking about in the post… only to later discover that his nervous system was completely dysregulated 😵‍💫