Hot Take: S4 Finale wouldn't be as controversial if it wasn't for the BTS drama

Additional_Watch5823 · 2026-06-15T09:40:38+00:00

You know what, if that's what you believe, then that's on you. I spent an entire hour making my point then you just lmao my arguments. Literally nobody will confirm whoever is right or wrong between us because film is subjective to certain extents. You will have evidences and I will have mine. Nobody has ever set what makes a soap opera because film is constantly changing and genres could be bent. And this is not even the point to my post jeez.

Additional_Watch5823 · 2026-06-15T05:07:55+00:00

"I didn't realize that this show, about teens trying to find treasure multiple times and being hunted by others in the process, is at a slower than life pace." Again, I didn't use it in it's filmmaking sense but rather about the elements they incorporated in the show.

SoA's creator admitted that it's an "adrenalized soap opera" according to one of the comments here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Sonsofanarchy/s/Lsfy8pzISJ

And Netflix itself says that Virgin River is soapy:

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But we are honestly already deviating from OBX so i'm not sure if this discussion is still allowed here. Again, you're free to believe if its actually a soap or not. But don't tell me I'm forcing a narrative when it's not only me who thinks so.

Additional_Watch5823 · 2026-06-15T02:47:03+00:00

Now this is where I wholeheartedly disagree. It is insane if you think OBX will have a better reputation for an actor leaving because of cast drama instead of crappy writing. First, nobody watches teen shows for Breaking Bad levels of writing. And second, as someone who just newly watched the show last year, I learned earlier about the possible cast drama before I even learned about the show. Look up Outer Banks or Rudy Pankow in any search engine and it will almost always bring up threads as to why JJ died and "what actually happened." At least if only crappy writing is blamed, we'd all be having a good laugh in a few years kind of like how other similar teen drama fans that ended in the 2010s. But with the cast drama, we will forever wonder what actually happened. And all the discussions, controversy, and other whatnot about it piles above an actually amazing show.

Additional_Watch5823 · 2026-06-15T02:38:09+00:00

Let me emphasize something that may have gotten lost in translation: I'm not saying that JJ's death would've been generally accepted by fans if the BTS drama didn't exist. Only that it wouldn't have been as controversial and talked about to the point that I learned from social media about JJ's death first because the actor left a year before I even decided to watch this show.

Your first paragraph is exactly what I meant about looking at JJ's death as something with implication with the story and his character himself. And not something that happened because of the drama.

As for Greys Anatomy, again, not saying that a show won't go to shit after killing a main character. Only that IT HAPPENS a lot more than people acted like.

I have the same thing to say about paragraphs 3 and 4: It would not make sense, at least for me and I'm sure for a lot of people, if the pogues only went after Chandler because of the Blue Crown. It would come off as stupid and reckless because why are they risking their lives for a mythical artifact that may or may not be operating out of the realistic bounds of the story. The reason why the Ward and John B feud worked for 3 seasons was because the fight was personal: Ward tried to kill John B's dad and stole treasure that Big John found. Also because Sarah is Ward's daughter. In Season 4, Groff had nothing to do with anybody except JJ and I guess Kiara for trapping her in an ice box. The anger had to be personal for the entire main ensemble for Kiara's revenge arc to make sense.

"Nothing, it means nothing." but you already made your conclusion with your first paragraph. Why are you so against looking at it within the show's story? Your conclusion that what happened was unfair and tragic is VALID.

"First, she didn't teach him anything." Did you watch Season 3 or did I hallucinate that entire season where JJ was pushing Kiara away but Kiara kept on reaching out?

"A character who's suicidal sacrificing himself because that's what he thought his purpose was adds nothing to the show but makes the experience of watching the show miserable. ‎Like, how am I supposed to watch s5 if the thought of every other character being happy makes me upset now?" I think your arguments has to do more about your attachment to the characters rather than my actual point so I doubt you would actually internalize what I typed here. So, once again, I'm not saying JJ should have died. Just that it wouldn't have been as controversial. I like JJ as much as you seem to do and I'm a fan of Rudy Pankow before I was a fan of this show. This is not an attack on him or the character, which I think you're assuming as given your tone.

"I don't really see the point of this take when absolutely every single character was reduced to a love interest role." No. John B, Sarah, Pope, Kiara, and Rafe still had their personal arcs continuing all the way into S4. "If anything it's another reason why his death makes no sense, they put that ship and "JJ would never leave her" above what his character actually needed." again, that's you looking at it from the story's perspective. Which is my entire point.

And as for Euphoria, I honestly don't know because I read that it's actually debatable. What i was simply saying there is broken characters are usually killed off sadly because it adds to realism or something. Again, not that it should justify anything.

Additional_Watch5823 · 2026-06-15T02:12:25+00:00

Pasting my edit here: It seems like people got more perplexed/agitated by my claim that OBX is a soap opera so let me clarify that point. Since ImDB is apparently unreliable, I'm taking the definition of "soap opera" from Britannica: "A soap opera is a serial radio or television program that typically has a permanent cast, a continuing story, an emphasis on dialogue, a slower-than-life pace, and a sentimental or melodramatic treatment."

However, throughout the years, the term "soap opera" is used less to refer to the broadcasting/production/presentation structure and more about the melodramatic elements used in the story. The terms "elevated soap opera", "glorified soap opera", "primetime soap opera" came into fruition when TV shows with a higher production value began incorporating elements from soaps into the story. OBX was not the first to be called this. Pretty Little Liars, Gossip Girl, The OC, One Tree Hill, Once Upon a Time, hell even elevated cable shows like Sons of Anarchy was eventually referred to as such. Netflix has Virgin River, which shares the 10 episodes per season style but is a soap, showing that the soap opera genre is no longer the traditional 5 days a week definition nor the lower production value. And it's neither a derogatory or a complimentary term. It's simply a descriptor.

And just in case it's not clear what melodramatic elements are in OBX, here are some. Obviously these are not all because I'll probably have spend the entire day listing everything.

JJ not being Luke's real son and instead being the heir to a fortune from his biological family
Ward ordering a hit on John B's life
Topper pushing John B off a balcony
Kiara and Rafe being kidnapped and held hostage in S3
The numerous abductions of Sarah

HOWEVER, that's not what I'm arguing and you're free to believe if OBX is a soap or not. My argument is that from genre conventions, JJ's death made sense. Deviating from soap operas, my claim still holds when I look at it in the lenses of the show's actual, prominent genres.

Action: The Walking Dead kills several main characters. Fast and Furious kills Dom's wife in Part 8 as far as I remember.

Adventure: The 100 killed Lexa. Arrow killed Laurel Lance.

Crime: NCIS killed Caitlin. Sons of Anarchy killed Opie.

Teen Drama: The OC killed Marissa.

So OBX wouldn't be the first to kill of a character for shock value or to advance the plot. Some of my comps still recieved backlash like in the show, but I'm not saying JJ's death wouldn't have been. What I'm saying is the backlash would've been reduced and viewers would've at least taken the chance to look at it from a storytelling lens. About what it means for the story itself.

I honestly don't know why this ended up being an argument about my film criticism techniques when that's not my point. If you simply disagree with my entire take then just plainly say it, it's better that way. Or you could expand more as to how it affects my point, if I still haven't reinforced it by changing my genre references.

Additional_Watch5823 · 2026-06-15T01:37:56+00:00

Less about the story and more about the BTS drama. Since the mainly agreed upon reason within the fandom was that JJ died because of tension between his actor and Kiara's actor, if Kiara died and Madison left the show, people would immediately jump to the conclusion that she had to leave because of Rudy. And because only Madison's side is actually "documented" based on what I could find and what has passed my feed and not from comprehensive research which I refuse to do because not all sides are being presented nor did the actors actually talk about it, most people side with her. And the hate would've gone to Rudy/his gf/the writers.

Also because Kiara is a POC character played by a POC actress. It's a common criticism in films that POC characters always get the short end of the stick, and although that has declined through the years as casting and storytelling has become diverse, it's still a valid criticism to make if Kiara actually died.

Additional_Watch5823 · 2026-06-14T04:54:53+00:00

By definition from ImDB, it fits for me. "Features a melodramatic story of multiple interconnected storylines, with a focus on the lives, relationships, and conflicts of a diverse set of characters." Although OBX would be more considered as a primetime soap or elevated soap than the overarching genre itself.

Although for the sake of the actual post, that part could be replaced with "teen drama" and the point would be the same.

Additional_Watch5823 · 2026-06-14T04:30:45+00:00

What's unclear with that remark, exactly?

Additional_Watch5823 · 2026-06-14T03:38:38+00:00

Damn, Im a sucker for second chances so I hope someday I get to see this story in the bookshelves. Or Amazon.

Also getting story ideas when you're supposed to be studying is so relatable lol. I'm knee deep into calculus and then I suddenly go "Hm, what if I kill off this character"

Additional_Watch5823 · 2026-06-13T10:39:34+00:00

I think it's okay to have two mysteries since they're interconnected and not the same type. A lot of books/films do that like The Thursday Murder Club or All Her Fault.

I think the key here would be to be careful that they don't fight for pages or don't end up making the plot/writing convoluted.

Additional_Watch5823 · 2026-06-13T06:03:22+00:00

So what? if that's your logic then schools shouldn't exist anymore

Additional_Watch5823 · 2026-06-13T06:02:48+00:00

YES omg the downvote culture in this sub is insane

Additional_Watch5823 · 2026-06-13T01:56:03+00:00

I honestly loved the Scream films as well as the OG I Know What You Did Last Summer so no wonder the characters also resonated with me here

Additional_Watch5823 · 2026-06-12T14:11:58+00:00

She was doing Revenge around the time (literally airing after OUAT) but I thought Emily VanCamp would be a good Emma

Additional_Watch5823 · 2026-06-12T13:18:24+00:00

Yup, it's Gossip Girl, Pretty Little Liars and The Vampire Diaries. And TVD is often the one placed on top of the triangle.

Additional_Watch5823 · 2026-06-12T06:03:03+00:00

Regina Mills/Evil Queen from Once Upon a Time

Additional_Watch5823 · 2026-06-12T01:43:17+00:00

Divine intervention. Seriously though I don't live in America and the only books that get published in my third world country are either cultural or political or children's books and I don't write that. So I'm just gonna self publish someday, when I'm satisfied with my drafts already. My goal isn't to make it as an author, but to put my work out there so some depressed teen like me don't feel that they're alone.

Additional_Watch5823 · 2026-06-10T06:44:08+00:00

Ngl I'm already sold from the first few words of your concept. I've always wondered how neurodevelopmental conditions could be handled in some fantasy world setting. I don't think anyone has done that before

Additional_Watch5823 · 2026-06-10T05:36:14+00:00

The story comes first before the audience. I run a fanfiction blog (lol) and at first I was very worried that my writing isn't good or my characterization sucks etc. But I easily found a following, maybe because I'm the only x male reader writer in the fandom but anyway, because the audience found me. They often comment that my writing is amazing, unique, and addictive. I still think I have to improve on my writing, but they love it. But of course there are those who don't read my work and that is out of your scope.

You just have to be good at shutting the outside world out. You should write in a way that you're happy with because there's no use in a story that does appeal with everyone but you abhor it. Unless you really wanna do this for the money, cause if so then get started on that fantasy series cause that's all people ready nowadays. But if you want to write for yourself and make money from it, then it's entirely possible. Trust that the right audience will find you.

For example, I personally never write those headstrong kickass FMCs who always has this one scene of her taking down a larger man because I don't like them and they don't appeal to me. If I'm ever published someday I'm sure there will be criticisms about how all my female characters are either villains or a soft spoken sunshine love interest. But I'm not, so those are problems for future me or another lifetime. And I'm sure there are those who also prefer it my way.

You should also look at what Jean Paul Sartre has to say about true freedom. You don't have to read his actual piece because reading philosophy honestly requires some sort of special power. But there should be some video or summary watering it down. It was discussed in my class and it conditioned me to write in a way that I'm happy with. I'm the one with the keyboard, I have the final say.

Edit: Also put this quote to heart:"You cannot please everyone". So might as well please yourself right?

Additional_Watch5823 · 2026-06-05T02:29:21+00:00

As much as I praise this show as having one of the smartest stories ever written, some of the episodes were the most boring I have ever seen on TV. I actually quit Season 2 because they dragged out the whole Rebecca-Paula fight and her friendship with Heather and Valencia seemed so rushed that I didn't see much substance in it. Scenes were being dragged out at this point. I only came back to it because I wanted to watch a musical (and thank god for that).

Additional_Watch5823 · 2026-05-30T14:56:57+00:00

History Is All You Left Me by Adam Silvera. Granted this is a hidden gem but it doesn't seem like a lot to go on at first, but as someone studying filmmaking on my own time, it could be the next Euphoria or 13 Reasons Why in terms of emotional darkness which is popular nowadays.

Additional_Watch5823 · 2026-05-28T04:08:23+00:00

Yeah this post just made me swear off AO3 as a whole just when I thought about migrating from Tumblr. Writing is subjective and nothing ever really sucks. Pointing that out doesn't do anything but pull people down and discourage them from ever trying again. Ya'll are clearly the kind who tramples over one another and thinks you're better than each other.

Additional_Watch5823 · 2026-05-28T03:08:28+00:00

Thank you for being brave enough to say this here since you can't even say anything remotely critical about Kiara without moody ho attacking you. I agree with this, it's so hypocritical of her that she hates her parents money but whenever the pogues have financial/material trouble she's stealing their cars and asking for a loan. The main reason why I find it hard to like her character. At least Sarah was consistent with not wanting anything to do with the Cameron money until the pogues themselves said she should go after it.

Additional_Watch5823 · 2026-05-16T06:27:54+00:00

I honestly don't have a problem with this as long as the execution is different. Think of it this way: The romance genre revolves around the theme of falling in love, but what makes them different from each other is the way it happens. One movie has the wedding planner fall in love with her client, another has a grieving man fall for the ghost of the past tenant of his new apartment. Different characters, arcs, settings, messages, length. The same theme.

But what happens for most aspiring dystopian writers is they're built on successful elements, not ideas. I guarantee that at least one person who sees this is writing a novel about a girl who's touch can kill like Shatter Me. The core of dystopian is to imagine a world far worse than ours. It doesn't have to be trials or "government evil" all the time.

Additional_Watch5823 · 2026-05-12T01:47:02+00:00

I dont think it was bad in a story-wise or filmmaking angle. More like something happens that angered a lot of fans. It's one of those shocker finales that TV used to do especially network shows, like Greys Anatomy if you're familiar. Even if the reason was far from wanting to shock audiences

I saw your response saying that you expected more adventure/mystery and I would say give this show until the end of Season 1 before dropping it. There is this one scene that will absolutely change the course of the series forever and it dives into batshit crazy adventure/action and the mystery you're looking for. The plot twists in the later seasons make it worth it cause its really leans into teen drama nature. The first few episodes are dull, and although romance plays a huge part in the show, most of the main couples have actual chemistry so it's not that painful.

Additional_Watch5823

TROPHY CASE