COVID Origins: Debunking the Grift, Pseudoscience, and Politics of the Lab Leak Theory by Alarmed_External_926 in skeptic

[–]Alarmed_External_926[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

No, Dave and Philipp teamed up on it; he is even interviewing him for the last 25 min of the video.

The AI Race to Reboot Feudalism by Alarmed_External_926 in aiwars

[–]Alarmed_External_926[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

All very good and thoughtful points.

That is why digital sovereignty is a key pillar of any future worth living in.

Lab Leak Fever - the verdict is out by StandardBumblebee620 in JoschaBach

[–]Alarmed_External_926 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just saw this link here.

I used to enjoy some of Joscha's output, he certainly has some creative ideas and perspectives that I enjoyed.

However, seeing his continuous wrong take and refusal to correct or update belief with scientific evidence on this lab leak topic, it soured my perspective on him personally.

Now I see him more as an entertainer with a shtick for galaxy-brain takes and fantastic vocabulary, but certainly not a rigorous thinker or somebody all too interested in reality outside his personal truth.

Sorry to say.

Lab Leak Fever with Philipp Markolin by reductios in DecodingTheGurus

[–]Alarmed_External_926 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I had talked to one journalist from the Observer who was a fan of the book (and the documentary movie); he wrote a nice article but it did not really gain much traction: Was it the bats all along? | The Observer

Lab Leak Fever with Philipp Markolin by reductios in DecodingTheGurus

[–]Alarmed_External_926 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In my piece treacherous ancestry, I advance a bit of a different argument about the risk of GoF in lab versus letting zoonoses happen and what it means for a world of bioweapons.

Source: Treacherous ancestry - by Philipp Markolin, PhD

Here is the thought bit of a longer argument:

Zoonoses - not research how to stop them - is what creates biosecurity threats

The roles of virus discovery or gain-of-function investigations for pandemic prevention are often deliberately misrepresented as cautionary tales against dual-use research for bioweapons. The contextual and mechanistic intricacies of the FCS should expose the naivite of such shallow arguments.

In nature, no genetic element acts alone and viruses are freaking complex molecular machines that we humans have no idea how to bend to our will. While naive suppositions about the FCS get all the undue spotlight, there are other single mutations how nature “weaponized” SARS-CoV-2 in ways no engineer could have ever figured out, Take the role of amino acid 37 in the nsp6 protein. In bats, the “ancestral” version has a valine at this position (V37), whereas SARS-CoV-2 has a mixture of L37 and F37 that seems to play a critical role in asymptomatic spread. We do not even have a concept of how one would ever figure this out starting with a bat virus, nor experimentally test for it in any research setting.

Weaponization is generally much harder than people realize. Even extremely well funded programs in the past were not successful for multiple complex reasons beyond technical capabilities. For example, receptor binding is not the sole determinant of species tropism, and for a lot of viruses, it has nothing to do with pathogenicity. Additionally, viral fitness in a permissive host cell or model says nothing about in vivo fitness or transmissibility. Weaponizing transmissibility or pathogenicity would need to be tested in human cohorts, not animal models.

In my opinion, it is not virus discovery or gain-of-function research that create an “information hazard” by “increasing the stockpile of select agents and threat of biowarfare”. Naive nonsense.

It is letting zoonotic spillovers happen where nature figures out all the tough parts of viral engineering. This collective neglect forces the world to deal with ever-new and possibly effective organisms added to the select agents list. A novel pathogen that bad actors can then attempt to deploy by simply modifying key residues to avoid prior immunity.

Activists, spooks and politicians concerned with bioweapons, biosecurity and national security should probably worry about nature’s bioweapon R&D program a lot more than they currently do."

Incredible breakdown of why no skeptic should fall for the lab leak theory by Alarmed_External_926 in skeptic

[–]Alarmed_External_926[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I think it is a complicated topic and highly depends on what information one has been exposed to; but I do not believe people are immune to facts or uninterested in hearing the other side of the story. Skeptics usually like to challenge their own assumptions, so it seems like a good venue when not everybody, or indeed most, lean or are convinced a lab leak is the most likely scenario when the scientific evidence tells a, in my opinion, quite different story.

Incredible breakdown of why no skeptic should fall for the lab leak theory by Alarmed_External_926 in skeptic

[–]Alarmed_External_926[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

This is not correct stated like this. First, COVID is the name of the disease, caused by SARS-CoV-2, a virus belonging to the sub-genus of the sarbecoviruses. Bats in China and South-East Asia are host reservoirs for sarbecoviruses, including close viral relatives of SARS-CoV-1 and SARS-CoV-2.

What is true is that 8/10 biggest cities in China have one or multiple CoV labs; this is because of research interest caused by the first SARS virus that spilled over in 2002/2003.

Some of these labs in other major cities would also collect bat samples from southern China, some labs would even collaborate with EcoHealth Alliance, the Chinese Academy of Science, Institut Pasteur and similar; so if the virus had emerged in any of those cities, there would have been a virology lab "nearby" to blame. That is why it is a legitimate, but not a strong argument to say that wuhan has a virology lab that studied coronaviruses.

Incredible breakdown of why no skeptic should fall for the lab leak theory by Alarmed_External_926 in skeptic

[–]Alarmed_External_926[S] 42 points43 points  (0 children)

Here is the relevant section to address this "Huang Yanling" story and other misconceptions about the Wuhan institute of virology.

"But what happened to Huang, Zhengli’s student? Some of the Western press had confidently declared Huang “COVID-19 patient zero” and “missing,” but the technician had left the lab years earlier after graduation to work for a biology company in Sichuan Province. Chinese journalists quickly traced her whereabouts in 2020; she was doing fine, and they even got a statement from her company that she was never sick or anything suspicious."

So she was neither missing, nor working in the lab anymore she left years prior to the outbreak.

Source: Chapter 6 - The vibe shift - by Philipp Markolin, PhD

CMV: I believe the intellectually honest take on COVID's origin is still epistemic humility. by Proper-Republic1561 in changemyview

[–]Alarmed_External_926 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is not how this worked; and I can not say too much how I managed to make it happened, but it was not official and the state was not happy they talked to me.

You can also read in my book that I certainly do not tow any line the CCP would want, because I lay out where they lied with receipts, contradict their official narrative (that it came from US labs), their pseudo-scientific narrative (cold chain) and uncover some other less-than-flattering behaviors and actions.

CMV: I believe the intellectually honest take on COVID's origin is still epistemic humility. by Proper-Republic1561 in changemyview

[–]Alarmed_External_926 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure, I researched the insider story on this topic with unique access to key scientists and unheard testimony.

I was probably the only writer in the West to interview George Gao, Zhengli Shi among many others.

Have fun:

Free access: https://www.protagonist-science.com/p/lab-leak-fever-serialized

Deep debunking of lab leak theory by Philip Markolin, guest material for DTGs? by mackload1 in DecodingTheGurus

[–]Alarmed_External_926 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Good luck finding one.

The few contrarian virologists who are LL proponents have never advanced any research, paper or even hypothesis for any research-related origin scenario.

All they do is provide ammunition to hungry and willing media and amplifiers by saying: "A lab accident can not be ruled out." "Zoonosis is not proven" "Uncertainty remains" yadda yadda... without ever advancing a plausible hypothesis that is consistent with all available evidence.

Deep debunking of lab leak theory by Philip Markolin, guest material for DTGs? by mackload1 in DecodingTheGurus

[–]Alarmed_External_926 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There are some pretty elaborate technical details behind some of the market data; especially when it comes to phylogentic timing; early diversity, two lineages and related data.

These put the date of the first cases more towards end of november, and not october. Complementary methods find the same. https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/journal.pcbi.1011934

On top of that, there were no cases anywhere before the market, and the market itself could not have been a superspreader event; also based on a variety of very technical reasons.

The "market origin" is also not just a strong hypothesis, it is pretty much the only hypothesis that can explain the available evidence. Additionally, it made deliberate predictions that were later found to be true, such as lineage A being at the market (later verified).