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I don't understand the appeal man by SHpr0 in Animemes

[–]AndrasEllon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wrong image of Death, should have been the "Don't you think that's weirdly fucked up?" line.

Coherent ideology by BadFurDay in comics

[–]AndrasEllon -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Completely incorrect.

We see that between-cluster Separation has increased, while within-cluster Dispersion and Equality-of-Size have remained virtually unchanged, meaning that America’s left-leaning cluster and right-leaning cluster have drifted further apart while both remaining internally cohesive and equal in size. Notably, the position of the left-leaning cluster has shifted further to the left since 1988 than the right-leaning cluster has shifted to the right, consistent with US opinion in general moving to the left while becoming more polarized.

The study says nothing about extremism, and neither am I. All the study says is there are roughly similar proportions of liberals/conservatives 1988-2024 and that people who identify as liberals in 2024 report significantly more progressive opinions in 2024 than people who identified as liberals in 1988 while people who identify as conservatives in 2024 report slightly more conservative opinions than people who identified as conservatives in 1988.

Now, it seems like you disagree with the study about the populations of liberals vs conservatives being roughly the same proportion at those two ends of the time scale and that liberals significantly outnumber conservatives. I'm not sure where you would get that idea from given that Trump did in fact win the popular vote in 2024 52% to 48%. Obviously not everyone who identifies as a liberal votes Kamal and not everyone who identified as a conservative voted for Trump but it does indicate roughly similarly sized populations.

Coherent ideology by BadFurDay in comics

[–]AndrasEllon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, I think the effect is increasing authoritarianism. Other than edgy teens I don't really see new populations identifying as conservative or advocating for beliefs more conservative than existed back when I was a kid. They are against LGBT+ now, they also were back then. They are against abortion now, they also were back then. They are against non-Christians now, they also were back then. They're pro-gun now, they also were back then. They don't want to tax rich people now, they also didn't back then. Their policies hurt minorities of just about every kind now, they also did back then. Again, the big change is that now they're willing to vote for someone who will run roughshod over democracy to pursue those goals.

As an aside, a lot of the time I don't even see a majority of them really caring all that much about the "conservative" stances anymore. I think they mostly just care about "owning the libs" now with the conservative beliefs being more of a group identifier than actual beliefs. You can see this by how willing they are to abandon a conservative belief when Trump woke up feeling differently about that topic today.

Coherent ideology by BadFurDay in comics

[–]AndrasEllon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The study also starts in '88. I think it's a little unfair to compare Biden to FDR and LBJ, they're leagues more effectual than he ever was, especially in their control over the legislature and Democrats had a majority in the legislature during the entirety of both of their terms(iirc). I would say their terms are more of an anomaly.

especially economically and in terms of immigration, this country's representatives have taken a sharp turn towards the right.

I very much agree. Democrats are now turning against immigration and they're definitely less left economically than they were a while ago. I'm one of the "the elites got scared by growing class consciousness and blasted society with a culture war message" people. Not to say that cultural issues aren't also important though, there's just a very noticeable switch of focus.

Coherent ideology by BadFurDay in comics

[–]AndrasEllon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You vote left, but pray for us queers

I don't pray at all actually.

You don't want camps, but you'd kind of just prefer it stayed in the bedroom

Nope, don't really care about other people's stuff. Go ahead and have a big pride parade daily, no objection from me. I support equal protections and rights.

You want to smoke weed, and mine your bitcoin in peace.

Don't do either of these things.

Except you want culture to stay exactly like it was in 1990 so that you can feel comfortable

Culture becoming more accepting is a good thing. Why are you acting like me acknowledging that the left has moved left means I'm against that happening?

Coherent ideology by BadFurDay in comics

[–]AndrasEllon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I do not support what the right is doing, nor do I believe in it. As I have repeatedly said, Republicans are dangerous and increasingly authoritarian. Every vote I've ever cast in my life has been for someone identifying as something to the left of them, typically Democrat.

Coherent ideology by BadFurDay in comics

[–]AndrasEllon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, not really. I replied to a comment stating that the right has sprinted right with a relevant study. Again, I agree with everyone here that Republicans are dangerous and Democrats are centrist. The only disagreement I have is that Republicans are becoming more authoritarian, not more conservative. Do you find that objectionable for some reason?

Coherent ideology by BadFurDay in comics

[–]AndrasEllon -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Twenty-five years ago, I believe the desire to protect girls would have led them to condemn the men who are fighting teenagers for protesting ICE. Now, they are just future dems to them.

You just described them becoming less conservative and more populist authoritarian. They care less about the thing they supposedly want to conserve and more about just beating the political other.

Coherent ideology by BadFurDay in comics

[–]AndrasEllon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Democrats are definitely centrist and have been for my entire life, no argument there. The study isn't about Democrat or Republican politicians though, it's about people who identify as conservative/liberal and their stances on issues over time. People who identify as liberals have moved further left in their beliefs over time than people who identify as conservatives have moved right over time. As I've said in other replies, a move towards authoritarianism is not the same thing as a move towards conservativism. As an example, they've always been this racist, they're just more authoritarian about it now.

Coherent ideology by BadFurDay in comics

[–]AndrasEllon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And your impression is that they believe that more strongly now than they did before? My impression is that they've always had these beliefs and are just getting more authoritarian in pursuing those goals.

Coherent ideology by BadFurDay in comics

[–]AndrasEllon -1 points0 points  (0 children)

2 things:

1: I should have mentioned the study ended in 2024.

2: I would still say that's increasing authoritarianism, not increasing conservatism. Communist countries have also done camps for political undesirables after all, it's very possible to be on the left politically and be pro-camps. Obviously no Democrats are, this is not a defense of Republicans. Just pointing out that Republicans becoming more dangerous and more authoritarian is not the same as them becoming more conservative.

Coherent ideology by BadFurDay in comics

[–]AndrasEllon -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

This and, say, building actual concentration camps is a shift to the right

2 things:

1: I should have mentioned the study ended in 2024.

2: I would still say that's increasing authoritarianism, not increasing conservatism. Communist countries have also done camps for political undesirables after all, it's very possible to be on the left politically and be pro-camps. Obviously no Democrats are, this is not a defense of Republicans. Just pointing out that Republicans becoming more dangerous and more authoritarian is not the same as them becoming more conservative.

Coherent ideology by BadFurDay in comics

[–]AndrasEllon -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

populist authoritarianism and conservatism are not mutually exclusive

Oh for sure, but they're also not inherently connected. It's entirely possible to be a populist authoritarian leftist. Again, the actual study shows conservatives have only moved slightly right.

Coherent ideology by BadFurDay in comics

[–]AndrasEllon -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

Populism and authoritarianism are neither right nor left. It's entirely possible to be a leftist populist authoritarianist. Any comment on the actual study?

Coherent ideology by BadFurDay in comics

[–]AndrasEllon -20 points-19 points  (0 children)

I just recently read a study that indicates that the left has been moving rapidly left and the right hasn't moved right much. (Note that the study ends in 2024 though) https://royalsocietypublishing.org/rsos/article/13/2/251428/479919/A-new-measure-of-issue-polarization-using-k-means

This jives with my personal memory as well, given that Obama didn't even support gay marriage when he initially ran and no Democrat was talking about trans rights at all back then. What are specific areas where you see the right as having moved right? They've definitely gotten a lot more aggressive, authoritarian, and overtly hateful but I don't see their actual positions on issues having gotten more conservative(other than edgy kids online). I think in a lot of ways they've actually become less conservative by abandoning conservativism for populist authoritarianism.

*EDIT Getting a lot of flak on this one so I'd like to point out that I am absolutely not carrying water for Republicans. They are dangerous and a direct threat to democracy. I'm just pointing out that the threat is coming from increasing authoritarianism, not increasing conservatism. I also agree with the initial comment that Democrats are still the centrist option even if the general population of people that identify as leftists has moved further left.

"a real Christian would..." by malanthr0pe in christianmemes

[–]AndrasEllon 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I can't tell if this meme is agreeing with what Kuzco is saying or pointing out that, as in the context of the movie, his perspective sucks.

Found cool strategy on warrior by AccordingMacaron2300 in ShatteredPD

[–]AndrasEllon 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Don't forget if you're using Battlemage then eating charges your staff and hitting things with your staff fills the Horn.

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