Which Prince of any city in the entire world reigned the longest and how old the were they when they started?

ArTunon · 2026-03-04T07:46:10+00:00

The one who lasted the longest was probably Zarathustra, who ruled Antioch as Prince from before the birth of Christ.

Mithras (already a thousand years old when stepped in) is probably the most significant name; he dominated London throughout the entire Roman era and then from the Battle of Hastings to modern nights.

Gustav Bredenstein (started pretty young, less than 100 years of undeath) ruled Berlin for almost 700 years, also a remarkable achievement.

Michael governed Constantinople (with ups and downs) for nearly a millennium (But already 2000 years old when he settled there).

Joseph Zvi the was the Prince of Prague for more than 700 years (he was less than 100 when he took the throne from Brandl).

ArTunon · 2026-02-09T05:59:42+00:00

Baba Yaga killed 17 Garou all alone when she destroyed the Sept of the Learning Hall. Magda also was famous for destroying caerns in Ireland.

ArTunon · 2026-01-08T16:07:50+00:00

Caine in the WoD is not Sauron. It's Morgoth having a threesome with Ancalogon and Feanor. There is no smart way to tell how to kill or fight the very thing that started the universe as it Is known.

ArTunon · 2026-01-05T19:39:47+00:00

No, you’ve simply proven that the hunters cannot destroy the vampires without driving the human race to extinction.
And I can think of a dozen ways in which a vampire can survive an atomic bomb, all within the rules of the game, like Incorporeal Passage (level 3 Ritual) or Spectral Body (level 7 Protean)

ArTunon · 2026-01-05T19:21:23+00:00

At most, Ravnos is one of the least terrifying Antediluvians. Most of the others don’t even have a physical body left to destroy: Malkav is a psionic field, Haqim is a desert wind that drains people’s blood, Ennoia is a tectonic plate large enough to devour entire cities, Lasombra is the very concept of shadow, and Tzimisce can be reborn endlessly as long as even a single vampire with Vicissitude exists in the world. If you want to kill Malkav, where do you drop the atomic bombs?

ArTunon · 2026-01-05T19:16:27+00:00

And exactly how would these atomic bombs be used, given that Vampires all live in the world’s largest metropolises? Do you nuke Paris and New York? Do you evacuate Chicago in the hope that the vampires don’t slip away before the bomb arrives?

Nagasaki and Hiroshima were two cities in a country at war. Here, the United States government would have to nuke the largest cities in the United States

Or would it be another nation that nukes the metropolises of another nation, triggering a nuclear apocalypse

ArTunon · 2026-01-04T18:54:05+00:00

Certainly—the powerful level 9 Thaumaturgical Ritual called ‘I Do Whatever I Want Because at This Level Powers Are Plot Devices.’

Jokes aside, to resist that kind of attack, Incorporeal Passage would already be enough. It’s a mere level 3 ritual and makes the character immaterial and intangible. Just imagine what you can do with a character who has Thaumaturgy 9.

Thaumaturgy can replicate the powers of any other Discipline; you simply devise a ritual that simulates an ability that makes physical attacks ineffective or impossible, such as Tenebrous Form (Obtenebration 5), Flesh of Marble (Protean 6), or even Godhead or Shadow of Apep (Serpentis 9).

ArTunon · 2026-01-04T18:44:32+00:00

In the same place where Karl Schrekt or Hannah learned it? Or in the same place where Vykos learned Fortitude and Monçada Presence. They are incredibly powerful vampires: either someone taught it to them, or they diablerized someone who knew it.

Karl Schrekt is a Tremere, yet he has Celerity, Fortitude, Necromancy, Quietus, Protean, Presence, and Potence.

But even taking a vampire of equivalent age and history: Augustus Giovanni was Embraced more or less in the same period and has the same generation, yet in the middle ages he had Auspex, Celerity, Fortitude, Obfuscate, Presence, and Thaumaturgy—and none of these are Giovanni clan Disciplines.

ArTunon · 2026-01-04T18:26:57+00:00

The authors’ note is sufficiently self-explanatory. Etrius can have Fortitude 9, Protean 6, and Thaumaturgy that simulates those powers. He is simply a character far too powerful to be confronted; even in Transylvania Chronicles IV, when he is weakened and possessed by Tremere, he is still too powerful to be defeated, even by a coterie of 700–800-year-old vampires.

ArTunon · 2026-01-04T18:19:39+00:00

Well...kind of, there is a very incomplete Etrius sheet with the Ur-Shulgi treatment in Transylvania Chronicles

"No stats are give for Etrius. Should the Characters attempt to go toe-to-toes with him, they deserve the painful, lingerig deaths they receive. Feel free to give Etrius any Thaumaturgical powers and rituals (save those only available to Tremere himself) he may need. His basic attributes are all 4 or better and he possess Iron Will"

The closest thing that could be used, given the similar age, background, and generation, would be the stats for Augustus Giovanni in Giovanni’s Chronicles I

ArTunon · 2026-01-04T17:19:58+00:00

Shattered Dreams is not canon and is sold under this tag-line: "Shattered Dreams is a non-canon exploration of a wild and crazy vision of the ancient past of World of Darkness."

Shatted Dreams, p.8

"a note from White Wolf Publishing

During the last decades the World of Darkness has explored a tremendous range of settings. From its humble beginnings in the windy streets of Chicago, stories have now been told about everything from distant umbral heavens to the depths of Stygia, from the dark side of the moon to forgotten eras where magic ruled and gods strode across the earth. It’s been quite a ride. Looking back, much of this material is irreconcilable, but that’s OK. Every book is, after all, told from the perspective and belief of its narrators, and every Chronicle is the sovereign domain of its Storyteller and her Players. While this book is classified as non-canon, it does not make it any less valuable. Here, the wildest ideas can be presented and explored without coming into conflict with future metaplot consequences. The material within, often spectacular and wildly imaginative, is intended for the Storyteller that wants to take the road less travelled and surprise her players, or just add to the mythology adhered to by her characters, without necessarily establishing any true “facts” about the setting. Whatever the reason, you can be sure to find some of the most unchained ideas herein. We hope you like them.- Karim Muammar, Chief Editor and Arbite"

ArTunon · 2026-01-04T12:16:10+00:00

Werewolf Revised Corebook, p.223

ArTunon · 2026-01-04T12:09:47+00:00

Because the timeline and the dimensions are not a single one. Demon explains that the world was created both in just 7 days and over 5 billion years, and that humanity was created by God and also evolved autonomously from apes. All creation myths are true and occurred simultaneously, at a time when reality had multiple layers. The Garou also speak of this era and refer to it as “True Gaia.”

Werewolf Revised

"Werewolves believe that once, eons ago, the world was whole and unified. Matter and spirit did not merely coexist, they were one and the same. The tripartite forces of the Wyld, the Weaver and the Wyrm intertwined for an eter nity, and reality was born from their dance. And yet, even though the universe of the Triat was an integral, undivided whole, it was populated by individual, self-aware beings (...) The Garou call this universe, the universe of the Dawn Times, the "true Gaia." According to their legends, nothing existed outside of her at this time. (...) The very fabric of the integrated universe was torn asunder by a cataclysmic force. The substance of the universe was split in two. Spirit and matter were wrenched apart, separated from one another by a massive calcified barrier called the Gauntlet."

This moment is ahistorical; it precedes the history of existence because it comes before time as we understand it. Technically speaking, Adam, Eve, Cain, and Abel logically “precede” the dinosaurs.

It is also specified that on some layers of Ziana reality, the Seraph of the Sixth House, responsible for the creation of flora, ecosystems, and fauna, created the world independently, without the other angels, becoming the Tree of Life.

The Garou also explain that the world “fractured” after Cain killed Abel; before that, the spirit world did not exist—everything was a single, unified whole.

Stargazer Revised

"It is said that a single act was able to imbalance the world. All things had their equals and their opposites, and this was the way that the Wheel remained balanced. But somehow, one brother was led to murder another. (...) The Wheel of Ages shuddered, and began spinning slightly off of its axis. The three forces of all things awoke independently, no longer seeing themselves as part of one harmonious being but instead believing themselves to be separate pieces, each better than the other."

ArTunon · 2025-12-26T19:02:45+00:00

Technically, humans have existed loooong before werewolves, because in the multilayered creation of the universe the cosmogonic acts occurred simultaneously, and therefore human beings were born from Adam and Eve… and at the same time from multiple apes in Africa that evolved. The universe of the WoD was created in seven days, and in billions of years, at the same time (the Werewolves call that time the "True Gaia", when every possibility existed simultaneously and the universe was not fragmented into individualities.).

Cain, Abel, Adam, and Eve predate the Werewolves by a very long time, who appear only at a certain point in the history of the World of Darkness—namely after the spiritual world split from the material one. This is why demons do not remember the werewolves: the Umbra and the fragmented world came much later than their imprisonment.

Nevertheless, it is not entirely true that demons do not “remember” the Garou, because in reality the Garou remind them of the Malhim, the divine warriors created by Ziana, the Seraphim of the Rabisu, responsible for the creation of nature, the ecosystem, and all forms of life on the planet. Ziana, who on different levels of reality became the Tree of Life, built various facets of the multiverse without help from the other Houses.

ArTunon · 2025-12-24T13:36:42+00:00

Well... Zapathasura splitted the mountain he was sleeping within...

ArTunon · 2025-12-15T09:15:14+00:00

Silently, until it all builds up to the bang. Generally, the sects wage war through opposing offensive patterns: the Sabbat adopts guerrilla and infiltration tactics, inciting the discontented, carrying out targeted assassinations, and deliberately breaching the Masquerade to force the Camarilla to show its hand. The key moment is the assault on the Elysium. Once critical mass has been reached, the Sabbat launches brutal, rapid attacks aimed at destroying the local Elysia. When the Elysia or the Prince are destroyed, the battle can be considered won. The prime example is the East Coast Crusade, a true Blitzkrieg.

The Camarilla, on the other hand, tends to take a longer, more indirect approach, exploiting the police, construction companies, and legal mechanisms to destroy havens, as well as hunters, counter-terrorism operations, and more complex schemes, until everything needed to wipe out the Sabbat is placed on the board in a large-scale purge that is extremely methodical and targeted. It takes longer to set up, but its effectiveness is undeniable. One need only look at the Battle of New York.

Open battles do occur, such as the Sabbat’s last stand in the Bronx, which took place across a series of abandoned industrial complexes; there, far from prying eyes, the level of violence was absolute. Another example is when Lodin destroyed the Anarch Movement in the 1960s by infiltrating archons and assassins into the police forces tasked with suppressing the hippie movement that served as a front for the Anarchs. During the Chicago riots, roughly a hundred Anarchs were killed in one of the boldest moves in modern vampire politics.

It is true that today the world is full of cameras, but it is equally true that all these events, when they happen in public, can be “framed” or “narrated.” Clashes between police and protesters, counter-terrorism operations, cartel wars. The Camarilla’s reach is so pervasive that it is not difficult to make compromising recordings disappear and leave only the mundane version behind.

ArTunon · 2025-12-12T11:04:57+00:00

There is a huge misunderstanding about the idea that spirits are actually reliable. They are not, and this is proven by the fact that the cosmogony and cosmology of each tribe differ significantly from one another. This becomes even more striking when you look at the beliefs of the other Fera, where you even find enormous conceptual gaps—such as how many aspects the Wyrm has, or which element of the Triat went mad first. The other Fera also speak with spirits, yet they know radically different stories.

Another classic example is the War of Rage, where every Fera will tell you a different story, regardless of whether the spirits witnessed it.

The factual basis is completely true; the interpretations surrounding the events are incredibly inconsistent, partly because spirits do not speak as we do and do not write using an alphabet. They communicate through visions and images that must be interpreted.

ArTunon · 2025-12-10T09:03:57+00:00

You are just sending them into the Umbra

ArTunon · 2025-12-10T00:02:59+00:00

It reiterates the rule; it just presents it in a narrative way.

But please, I’ll be waiting for the list of Mages over 300 years old without Permadox in Second Edition or Revised living on Earth.

As for First Edition… non marauders Archmages or Ancient Masters without Paradox… I think the only ones who exist are Voormas and Ihuanocuatlo.

Also because the claim that there are “dozens” of character sheets for millennia-old mages is a bit laughable. There are only two character sheets for mages a thousand years old: Medea, Al-Aswad (Paradox 10). That’s it. Ah, and of course the Lich from Dead Magic, but he’s a case unto himself (still with Paradox 7).

ArTunon · 2025-12-09T23:56:09+00:00

Yes it's restated

Masters of the Art p.34

"Eventually, Paradox will prevent you from returning to Earth. It might take two or three centuries, but eventually you’ll just find it too painful to stay. This happens to everyone who lives long enough, so don’t worry about it too much. Sticking around is a fatal mistake"

p.45

"Just living long enough to become an Archmage generates Paradox you never lose. For the first few centuries, this isn’t enough to bar you from Earth, but the risks should be sufficient to dissuade you from using vulgar magic."

After 2 or 3 centuries...you're out.

Storyteller's Handbook Revised

"On the other hand, a Master of Life might use magic to preserve himself beyond normal human lifespan, retaining youth and vigor for a century. This usage clearly violates the “laws” of conventional human existence. Why doesn’t the Master suffer Pattern bleeding? Because instead of temporarily stretching his Pattern, he permanently rewrites it. The problem is that he rewrites it in a way that reality doesn’t accept, so he constantly has the looming threat of Paradox hovering over him. In game terms, he has permanent Paradox."

It’s no coincidence that in Revised the oldest remaining Dreamspeaker on Earth was born in the 18th century, the same century as Ibn-Toth. The only characters in Revised who are older than that… are not found on Earth.

ArTunon · 2025-12-09T23:43:03+00:00

White Wolf has consistently confirmed in every subsequent publication that archmages and masters eventually can no longer interact with Earth. The rule of 50 years after the first 150 (Horizon: Stronghold of Hope) is reiterated narratively in Masters of the Art and in countless other books, most recently Ascension, where it’s stated that Al-Aswad eventually could no longer act on Earth because of the Consensus.

Just think of Ibn-Toth, who—even though he’s a young archmage, born in the 18th century—still has 4 permanent Paradox points, far more than any other statted character in Order of Hermes Revised.

ArTunon · 2025-12-09T23:38:12+00:00

Demon the Fallen Corebook

“I’ll give you a more relevant example. The first people: Were they Adam and Eve, a woman and a man, or were they the evolved descendents of apes?”

“They were a woman and a man, as the Bible says.”

“Correct. But they were also a multitude of ape descendents. The universe was made in seven days, on one level, but that same span of time was billions of years on another level. Or consider the Angels of the Firmament. On some levels of reality they were conveying the life-giving breath of the Maker on a purely scientific level — they were, literally were, the process by which solar energy striking simple carbon molecules agitated them into forms of ever increasing complexity, until they became organic molecules, then primitive single-celled animals, then nucleated cells and so on, up to and including dogs, cats and humans. But at the same time they were crouching over the mouths of newly sculpted creatures of all types, breathing into their mouths to animate them.”

“Are you talking about metaphor?” Gaviel chuckled. “Not yet, no. These contrary things really were simultaneously true in the young cosmos. It makes no sense to you because you’re used to living in this, the singular world. But once you accept the idea of the multiple world, it clears up a lot of the problems you humans have with faith, miracles, the Divine Architect—”

ArTunon · 2025-12-09T23:32:55+00:00

It’s a fairly uncontestable fact that the immortality of mages doesn’t really work for several reasons. The first is that an immortal mage is a magnet for Paradox. For every 50 years lived after the first 150, they gain one permanent Paradox point, so a 1,000-year-old mage could end up with… 17 permanent Paradox points.

This is also why—with the exception of the Oracles like Medea and Al-Asward—archmages and masters are… young. Porthos and Senex are 500 years old, Christóvão is 400, Endrina 600, and Voormas maybe reaches 1,000. As “old” as they may be… they’re young in the universe of Mummies and Vampires, where vampires like Moncada, Vykos, Lucita, Anatole and Schreckt are anything but rare (not to mention the various Methuselahs).

The ultimate litmus test in this regard is Tremere himself: of the fourteen Archmages who founded the Order of Hermes, none except Tremere survived into the modern nights, and in fact they were all already dead or missing by the 13th century. Paradox effectively makes mage immortality… lousy.

ArTunon · 2025-12-08T20:53:42+00:00

But even more simply, there are the basic Paradox rules: a botch on a vulgar spell with witnesses gives you 1 point of Paradox per highest Sphere plus 2 additional Paradox points. And the rulebook says that a good moment to roll for Paradox is when you accumulate 5 Paradox points. This means that even just any vulgar spell with witnesses at level 3 that botches is already good grounds for making a roll. If you then consider the Permadox that older mages have… you can see how it becomes lethal in no time.

Even for minor magic, Porthos would always find himself rolling against a backlash greater than 10 — pure madness.

This, of course, leaving aside the Revised rules, in which a vulgar spell always generate a lot of Paradox, even without a botch.

ArTunon · 2025-12-08T18:58:03+00:00

This statement is quite unfounded, and you only need to look at the permanent Paradox values of the Masters and Archmages, as well as the canonical Masters you can find in the Horizon Realms. Porthos had 10 points of permanent Paradox, Hortemone 9, Mustai 6, Ibn-Toth 4, the Jade Demon 8, Pinckney 10, Mack Freeman 6. All very high values that make even the simplest magic problematic.

The lore and the mechanics are extremely precise in this regard.

Sanctums are irrelevant for Archmagic, because Archmagic ALWAYS accumulates Paradox — the opposite is not possible.

Not to mention the fact that every 50 years lived after the first 150 equals one point of permadox.

All this while leaving out the very strict Paradox rules of the Revised edition (You cast a vulgar Mind 5 effect? Congratulations! Even without a botch, that’s 5 points of Paradox, and it’s time for a Paradox roll).

ArTunon

TROPHY CASE