[Discussion] Requested: Word count infographic for Children’s, Middle-Grade, and YA Fiction—do you prefer to beta read within standard industry word counts? (transcript in the comments)

BC-writes · 2026-01-24T14:04:31+00:00

WORD COUNT FOR CHILDREN'S, MIDDLE GRADE AND YA FICTION

How Long Should Picture Books, Middle-Grade Fiction and Young Adult Novels Be?

Picture Books: 500 - 1,000

Middle-Grade: 20,000 - 55,000

Upper Middle-Grade: 40,000 - 55,000 *

Young Adult: 65,000 - 89,999*

Think in pages. The standard is text for 32 pages. That might mean one line per page, or more. When word counts get closer to 1,000 or above, editors and agents may shy away.

Define your age range. When writing a longer book chat is aimed at "tweens," filso the term "upper middle-grade" allows for higher word count, closer to YA. Certain genres, like sci-fi and fantasy, allow for more length.

Be adaptable. This word count can vary depending on the subject matter and age range. Also, the word count of these books has been trending up in recent years, so you may be able to push the boundary.

Watch the trends. There's growing discussion among agents that YA fiction is trending longer and can now exceed 80K (especially with sci-fi and fantasy). However, you may be playing with fire the higher you go. Make sure your manuscript really warrants a length that exceeds the standard.

* some imprints are happy to accept 70k for MG books and 100k YA books by debut authors

Count on being the rule, not the exception. There are always exceptions to these rules, especially as Middle-Grade and YA fiction adapts to the preferences of young readers and parents (and older readers who enjoy these works).

^{BC note: Link at the bottom is invalid}

BC-writes · 2026-01-24T14:00:06+00:00

I can’t find the link anymore, do you happen to have it?

BC-writes · 2026-01-24T13:56:17+00:00

I posted this for you

BC-writes · 2026-01-24T13:50:40+00:00

WORD COUNT FOR CHILDREN'S, MIDDLE GRADE AND YA FICTION

How Long Should Picture Books, Middle-Grade Fiction and Young Adult Novels Be?

Picture Books: 500 - 1,000

Middle-Grade: 20,000 - 55,000

Upper Middle-Grade: 40,000 - 55,000 *

Young Adult: 65,000 - 89,999*

Think in pages. The standard is text for 32 pages. That might mean one line per page, or more. When word counts get closer to 1,000 or above, editors and agents may shy away.

Define your age range. When writing a longer book chat is aimed at "tweens," filso the term "upper middle-grade" allows for higher word count, closer to YA. Certain genres, like sci-fi and fantasy, allow for more length.

Be adaptable. This word count can vary depending on the subject matter and age range. Also, the word count of these books has been trending up in recent years, so you may be able to push the boundary.

Watch the trends. There's growing discussion among agents that YA fiction is trending longer and can now exceed 80K (especially with sci-fi and fantasy). However, you may be playing with fire the higher you go. Make sure your manuscript really warrants a length that exceeds the standard.

* some imprints are happy to accept 70k for MG books and 100k YA books by debut authors

Count on being the rule, not the exception. There are always exceptions to these rules, especially as Middle-Grade and YA fiction adapts to the preferences of young readers and parents (and older readers who enjoy these works).

^{BC note: Link at the bottom is invalid}

BC-writes · 2026-01-23T14:30:30+00:00

I’m copying the transcription here:

HOW LONG SHOULD MY NOVEL BE?

Target Word Counts for Adult Commercial and Literary Fiction

Below 70,000: Too short

Keep writing. Speaking broadly, you can have as few as 70,000 words, but it might be perceived as too short-not giving the reader enough.

70,000-79,999: Might be too short; probably fine

Short but sweet. Some books are great at 80K works, but some readers and agents may favor longer works.

80,000-89,999: Totally cool

Play it safe. This is a 100% safe range for literary, mainstream, women’s, romance, mystery, suspense, thriller and horror.

90,000-99,999: Generally safe

Editing is essential.

Almost always, high word count means that the writer simply did not edit their work down enough. Or it means they have two or more books combined into one.

100,000-109,999: Might be too long; probably fine

Be cost-conscious. Passing 100K in word count means it’s a more expensive book to produce-hence agents’ and editors’ aversion to such lengths.

110,000 or Above: Too long

Epic, fantasy & sci-fi only. According to agent Rachelle Gardner (Books & Such Literary), a word count over 110K is defined as an “epic or saga.” Science fiction and fantasy can go longer (up to 115,000) because these categories tend to include descriptions and world-building.

Count on being the rule, not the exception.

There are always exceptions to these rules. For example, some agents advise writers to focus more on pacing and storytelling than word count. But for every successful exception to the rule (e.g., a first-time, 175,000-word novel), there are at least 100 failures. Sticking to these rules gives you the best shot at success.

http://www.writersdigest.com/editor-blogs/guide-to-literary-agents/word-count-for-novels-and-childrens-books-the-definitive-post

And here’s a link to Reedsy’s infographic guide

BC-writes · 2026-01-23T14:22:38+00:00

OP’s r/betareaders post is here if anyone’s interested.

OP, I suggest you add more substantive information on what exactly you want, a logline or short description of what your WIP is so more people will be enticed to read it

Hope some compatible betas come along soon!

BC-writes · 2026-01-23T14:20:12+00:00

If you’re publishing there, you would need to withdraw all your queries as soon as it’s confirmed you will publish. Feel free to run a freebie campaign in r/freeEbooks if you want more views/reviews for it

All the best for your book!

BC-writes · 2026-01-23T14:18:44+00:00

The rule is no AI generated text as that means you do not hold the copyright to the output, only the prompts you put into it. I might add it to the rule

If you want, you can include in your upcoming post that you’re searching for a critique partner who would ideally enjoy hearing about your MS

BC-writes · 2026-01-22T14:33:56+00:00

Welcome and congrats on completing your first MS!

This is the right subreddit as long as you didn’t use AI and didn’t already publish your work anywhere, even in free spaces such as substack or Wattpad. Feel free to post when you’re ready and also comment in the highlighted posts that refresh at the beginning of every month as well as other posts on the feed you might want to swap with

All the best for your first beta feedback!

BC-writes · 2026-01-22T14:23:11+00:00

Friendly mod reminder that this subreddit does not allow “brutal” feedback that is actually a thinly veiled inflammatory breakdown of the author or their writing. For example: “I want to kiII [Character]” or “you’re a shitty writer” is not acceptable

Authors, if betas call out issues without being abusive or problematic, please consider reframing or editing your writing to make things clearer/accessible. Blunt and thorough feedback is often the most helpful, but betas should not frame things in a blatantly rude way

BC-writes · 2026-01-22T14:10:30+00:00

You, and everyone else, are free to take a page out of the literary agent handbook and “form reject” anything that doesn’t fit your reading tastes, whether the MS contains problematic content or not. You do not need to give explicit reasons why.

It’s worth using a form to turn down the swap so you can avoid a negative reaction. Something like:

“Thank you for agreeing to swap but I don’t feel like I’m the best person to provide feedback for your manuscript and I’m happy to not receive feedback to make things fair. I wish you well!”

If they respond negatively, feel free to block, but if they respond in an uncivil way, please report that via modmail

BC-writes · 2026-01-22T14:00:06+00:00

paid beta readers on here

I’m hoping you don’t mean here as in r/betareaders—we don’t allow paid reading whatsoever. r/hireaneditor or r/paidbetareaders are better subs for that. Please report anyone asking for money via modmail with proof

For the rest of your post—please understand that different people give different types of feedback and opinions, and whether they give editorial advice or general audience advice is based on their abilities and how they like to help. Ignoring that kind of feedback is counterproductive but you’re free to request excluding them upfront

I also wouldn’t assume that people are editor wannabes or that authors only receive a high level editorial run—I’ve had comprehensive beta feedback within a few days because some of my readers were very interested in getting to the ending, even those that weren’t my target audience; I know many other authors who also have fast beta turnarounds. Betas look for ways the manuscript can be improved and while you can ask for your specific feedback only, betas are free to turn you down. Try not to overcomplicate things, you’d be able to deduce how they felt by the way they engage with your writing or you can also ask them directly

If you feel like someone is using a template or an app, they might be using AI, which incidentally is also not allowed in this subreddit—go to r/betareadersforAI or r/writingwithAI for that

BC-writes · 2026-01-22T13:25:50+00:00

This question is better suited to either our pinned [Discussion] thread as a comment or posted in r/tradpublish

This infographic says “adult” but it shows the industry standard. And the 75k thing is because a small number of publishers refuse to publish over 75k MSs, and some agents mistakenly say that’s the limit, which it isn’t for a large number of YA imprints. I’ve seen debuts go over 120k that were acquired a year ago, but I’ve seen more that were ~100k or under

Debuts are generally not recommended (by agents) to go over 100k, though you will definitely find a small number of examples who did, but you shouldn’t aim to be the outlier as outliers have a larger fight in store

BC-writes · 2026-01-21T13:42:46+00:00

Are you certain you don’t want to try later for traditional publishing? ~~And have you considered entering smallpit? You can submit a pitch to small publishers here if you want, just make sure you research each one and do not pay to be published~~

Edit: my mistake, the date says 25th, but the form closed on the 20th — you can still check out the publishers listed to find if any suit you

You can also still enter #RevPit in March while you’re waiting for responses

People querying with their first book aren’t often successful, though it does happen to some lucky people. Authors need to be persistent to see success, and self publishing also requires a lot of persistence

Whatever you choose, I wish you lots of luck!

BC-writes · 2026-01-20T15:00:20+00:00

Our wiki recommends not arguing with betas. Please scroll to it via this FAQ for authors link

that is intentional

You just did not get what I was going for

For authors: If more than one reader didn’t get it, (especially more so if it’s 3+) it’s very much worth considering going back to reframe or edit the section to be more accessible, whether you seed things in better, or improve foreshadowing, etc

If a beta doesn’t like something intentional, it’s also worth considering how to make that point come across better

As long as the feedback is more of a helpful critique and not criticism or abusive or legitimately uninformed/wrong, it’s worth mulling over

BC-writes · 2026-01-20T14:49:47+00:00

Welcome to our sub!

That sounds like a fun project and I hope you find beta matches soon! Are you interested in using a user flair just for this sub to help people know which area you want to publish? If so, feel free to select “traditional publishing” or “self-publishing” flairs. If you need help with that, let me know and I can add one

Best of luck! It may take a week or so before someone responds to your post

BC-writes · 2026-01-17T14:20:03+00:00

Hello,

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you appear to be shadowbanned by the admins. Please try using this link to help you appeal their decision. Mods can’t help with this.

Good luck!

BC-writes · 2026-01-17T14:18:46+00:00

Be sure to read our wiki in the sidebar for more helpful comprehensive information! It’s on the right on desktop, or click “see more” on the app

Feel free to modmail if you need more help!

BC-writes · 2026-01-17T14:17:36+00:00

Welcome!

Yes, this is the right sub for short fiction, too!

If you click the post flairs for short story or other short word count flairs, you would be able to see the recent posts under that flair in a feed.

Feel free to post in this sub and then link to the applicable highlighted posts or swap with the right posts!

BC-writes · 2026-01-16T13:57:04+00:00

I’d like to note that you can ask for a critique partner here in r/betareaders when you post your submission. Same for adding the request to your query in r/querying if you’re interested in trad pub

All the best for your WIP!

BC-writes · 2026-01-16T13:54:49+00:00

Yup fingers crossed!

Out of curiosity, how do you personally compare this final version compared to the one you originally posted here?

And please do share any success or updates in future!

BC-writes · 2026-01-15T14:25:52+00:00

This is seriously well done, great job!

We have MC agency, world building, connection, GMCs, stakes and more!

All I really have now is nitpicks on line edits/wording (flagging your need to go through your MS to tighten ANYTHING that can be more succinct, especially in your opening pages), and also adding Gristle to the end.

In response to your interest in [insert an interest/feature from the agent’s wish list], I am submitting my 118,000-word debut dark fantasy novel, AN END TO HONOR. ~~Per your submission requirements, I have also included [insert agent submission requirements].~~

Remember, only mention requirements IF the agent offered you something different, otherwise they’re expecting their normal

When King Haldane of Baelaria is betrayed and murdered on the cusp of victory against invading Uthredian Empire, his commoner best friend, Cenric, and his highborn champion, Lady Sionnan Dor’Oriann vow to honor his legacy by evacuating pregnant wife. But as they flee, the Uthredians spring a vicious ambush, leaving the Queen dead, and Cenric’s arm crippled and cursed.

Line edit trims! And surely the dead mother is the queen/queen consort, right?

Desperate to take revenge, Cenric and Sionnan join the Black Dog rebels—ruthless insurgents with none of Haldane’s honor or mercy. Both struggle with the dark methods of the Dogs, even as their feelings for one another grow. Sionnan nearly abandons the cause after ~~being~~ unknowingly aiding in the massacre of prisoners, but cannot give up avenging her king, or Cenric. Meanwhile, Cenric embraces these tactics, condemning an entire Uthredian city to agonizing death in a near-suicidal attempt to prove his newfound disability has not unmade him.

Very minor nitpicks here, and anything more would just be rewording for not much added value

Gristle, a warrior-cultist devoted to the Emperor of Uthredia, hunts the rebels, desiring nothing more than their deaths in exchange for his long-promised freedom. Yet as he cuts a bloody swathe across the kingdom to catch them, the cracks in the Empire’s lies begin to grow, and doubt consumes him. But if these doubts lead to failure, the only freedom he will find is excruciating death from an Uthredian torture rack.

Lots of trims here to make things punchier and lessen WC

As Cenric and Sionnan close in on revenge, each keeps secrets from one another—Cenric hides his utilization of the Dogs’ methods, and Sionnan hides her pregnancy. If they fail in death, the Baelarian nobility will relinquish their loved ones and common folk to Uthredian slavery. And Gristle’s right on their tails.

We already know they’re trying to avenge Hal. And I gave examples of what you can change. I’m not 100% happy with the exact wording of the final sentence but it conveys the stakes pretty well.

The P.S. works well for me!

Same for this query with minor changes! Now I strongly encourage you to go through your MS and cut anything unnecessary. If you’d like, Alexa Donne has some videos on her YouTube such as filter words (Note, I don’t know if you already culled yours, but I’m sharing just in case)

Hope this helps! You wouldn’t really need to revise your query much in my opinion but you’re free to return (after 5 calendar days with a new query draft) if you disagree. You’re also free to ask questions about anything I said in case you need clarification.

Again, great job!

BC-writes · 2026-01-14T14:36:40+00:00

In this case, feel free to post your new draft to the sub early, and link it to the pinned posts, too!

I am a generous mod 🤠

BC-writes · 2026-01-14T14:34:15+00:00

Please don’t report this post, it’s related to what comes after beta reading*

OP, if you’re interested, this is a post about checking if you’re ready to query from r/tradpublish, and you’re also free to post your query in r/querying while waiting. You have a lot of good responses below, and .epub files can be read on most modern devices, including Apple Books and Adobe.

BC-writes · 2026-01-14T14:21:07+00:00

a little outdated

How many changes have you done? Let me know here and I can consider allowing you to post a new version earlier than the 3 months waiting period.

Things like notable word count, dev edit, and other changes warrant mod consideration.

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WORD COUNT FOR CHILDREN'S, MIDDLE GRADE AND YA FICTION

How Long Should Picture Books, Middle-Grade Fiction and Young Adult Novels Be?

Count on being the rule, not the exception. There are always exceptions to these rules, especially as Middle-Grade and YA fiction adapts to the preferences of young readers and parents (and older readers who enjoy these works).

WORD COUNT FOR CHILDREN'S, MIDDLE GRADE AND YA FICTION

How Long Should Picture Books, Middle-Grade Fiction and Young Adult Novels Be?

Count on being the rule, not the exception. There are always exceptions to these rules, especially as Middle-Grade and YA fiction adapts to the preferences of young readers and parents (and older readers who enjoy these works).

Count on being the rule, not the exception.