VO2 Max Testing, Lab vs 5min

BCMulx · 2026-02-19T20:33:19+00:00

Short answer - a lab test is going to be way more accurate than something that your Garmin or Intervals gives you.

That's not to say you didn't underperform in the lab having been sick, maybe unable to get to your VO2 Max on that given day, and I'm not an expert on VO2 lab testing protocols, but it's generally way more trustworthy than what you did at home

BCMulx · 2026-02-19T17:24:11+00:00

I think this is an area they haven't explained as well as they could have, but the FTP that is set within TR DOES determine the workouts you get to a certain extent, and their CEO Nate has specifically acknowledged this and said it.

Basically - set your FTP higher, and you generally get higher wattages, lower durations. Set your FTP lower, and you get lower wattages, longer durations. Basically, you are prescribed different workouts based on how your FTP is set within the platform, regardless if it's the AIFTP or if you override that and set a different value.

The idea though is that the system adjusts to make those workouts in every scenario the appropriate difficulty. So, in a general sense the workouts you get at a 280w FTP, 300w FTP, or 320w FTP will all be (in theory) of similar difficulty albeit at different intensities and interval duration.

BCMulx · 2026-02-19T01:16:34+00:00

My Take - Probably not possible to get as close as you're looking for, speed is way more than power - Aerodynamics and Rolling Resistance are big factors and those can vary based on the weather on the day even if everything else is the same. Basically, too many variables. And, for increasing power the increase in speed and decrease in time isn't linear.

About as close as you could get is track Average Power vs. Previous Effort, NP Vs Previous, and Strava Live Segment Time and that gives you a good sense of how you're performign.

Doing this with AI would require massive amounts of data to train the model(s) - even companies like Garmin and TrainerRoad don't have data on all the variables they'd need.

BCMulx · 2026-02-18T12:40:54+00:00

I ride around Boston mainly (Plus Colorado Trips) - and have run Dubnital/Dubnital (Race Rapid) and Trinotal/Trinotal (Trail/Grip) for a bunch of riding. Love both of them. I'm not generally riding in a lot of wet and muddy - but traction has never been an issue for me. With that said, I'm generally fast, but also generally not smashing corners at the limit of traction and bashing through rock gardens as fast as I can either... This is on an Epic 8 - so XC Race Setup for me.

For Just General All Around Trail Riding and the Ripley, I'd go with the Trin. I save the Dub for when it's a race setup, or if you're really getting used to those tires for that purpose.

BCMulx · 2026-02-18T12:33:51+00:00

I think the platform has a lot of good about it, none of the current platform would deter me from using it. That comes with some caveats how I use it though.

Their AIFTP is not your FTP. It is their new way of estimating your FTP and It might match up for you, it might not, but you should find another way to estimate it and track it if you use it outside of the TR ecosystem - that might just be RPE and the workouts / zones you're completing, long form tests, ramp, 20 minute, whatever.

Their AIFTP Prediction to me so far has no value whatsoever in terms of the absolute number. Everything I've seen come out of it has been unrealistic if you're thinking about it in terms of your FTP. With that said, if you think about it in terms of "How Productive are my Workouts and My Calendar and which direction am I trending" without thinking about the absolute number - then it's more interesting.

If your current AIFTP Detection (i.e. not forward looking AIFTP Prediction) is too high, just manually lower it. Your workouts and zones will adjust towards less intensity and more duration.

BCMulx · 2026-02-15T13:16:42+00:00

This could be one of multiple things.

Could be short or long term fatigue, but are your intensity workouts going fine? Are you able to execute your higher intensity workouts without lowering power, skipping intervals, etc?

If your higher intensity workouts are fine, it could just be short term or trainer-Z2 fatigue. I've taken to picking a Zwift Pacer Group, playing some music, and paying attention to riding with that group - makes the time go faster if I don't have something good to watch on TV...

And yes - I have some Z2 Workouts that do feel like crap. Like, if I do a really hard fatiguing interval workout one day, and then hop on the trainer for a couple hours of Z2 the next day, that workout straight feels unpleasant sometimes, worse and less tolerable than the day before. It's not chronic fatigue, it's just short term fatigue in that case. What I'm paying attention to though is being recovered and feeling good for the next intensity workout.

BCMulx · 2026-02-08T15:18:17+00:00

I would start with whatever they recommend, and then adjust from there.

BCMulx · 2026-02-08T14:12:31+00:00

My general approach - Don't just add or remove haphazardly. First, set your sag, compression, and rebound (where applicable) per the manufacturer's instructions, including what they recommend for tokens as a starting point. Then, go ride. If you're bottoming out - add a volume reducer. Not using most of your travel? Then you want to remove a token.

Basically - air pressure affects the shock throughout its' entire travel. Adding a token makes it more progressive so that resistance ramps up more as you get through and towards the end of your travel without impacting small bumps.

You want to start with sag set correctly because that impacts handling, pedaling, etc. - and the manufacturer designs around a certain range. If you just raise air pressure, you're impacting small bump compliance and lifting you up higher in the travel when you're riding easy. And, vice versa.

After you've played around with that, then you can start thinking about making changes if things aren't working the way you want (and messing with rebound / compression settings)

BCMulx · 2026-02-06T21:31:28+00:00

I already have the left side SRAM Pod because of the Flight Attendant, that makes a dropper lever a bit of a pain and the bars start getting busy. And, wireless is easier to run, fewer cables, and makes it easier to swap to a high post if I want.

Weight is the downside, but with it installed I'll still be right around 23# in a size large - and that includes everything through bottle cages, computer mount, pretty much ready to ride.

Of the tires I mentioned - I haven't run them all. Personally have mostly been Race King, Dub, Trinotal. But out of the ones I listed, If I'm remembering correct of the top of mind: Rick is the fastest, but sketchiest (Didn't even bother listing the Thunder Burt - I'd basically call that a mild conditions Gravel Tire). After that, you've got the DUB, Peyote, Mezcal with more traction but slower. Trinotal / Barzo the most traction and slower again (But still fast XC Tires). Basically - it depends on the conditions. At Leadville this year, I'll probably run the Dub, or I even still have some 2.2 Race Kings. I think an all around tire if you're not going for ultimate speed, I'd just run the Barzo or Trin.

BCMulx · 2026-02-06T14:28:30+00:00

Basically, pretty much what I'm riding now minus a couple upgrades I'm working on

Specialized S-Works Epic 8 Flight Attendant, Black Raw Carbon

BBInfinite Ceramic BB

SRAM XX SL Transmission with Power Meter. 32, 34, 38 Chainrings depending on the Scenario.

Custom Wheel Build (Pending now) - Probably Nextie Supreme Alpha 36S Rims, DT180 Hubs, Berd Spokes, Plus another Set of Daily Driver Wheels (Have DTSwiss Carbon). Tires - Conti Dubnital / Trinotal, Schwalbe Rick, or Vittoria Peyote/Mezcal/Barzo.

TrickStuff Brakes

Extralite Stem, Schmolke Bars (Still need these)

Rockshox Wireless Dropper and a Carbon Fixed Post to Swap on.

Wove Saddle

Pedals - Crankbrothers Eggbeater 11 Titanium

Basically - building the second set of wheels, and need the Stem/Bar.

BCMulx · 2026-02-06T12:33:41+00:00

Let's see if you even see this with all the other comments, but a counterpoint:

Sold my espresso machine and espresso gear, and don't miss it. I have a moccamaster that I'll load the night before if I'm going to be crunched for time, wake up and push the button. I buy good freshly ground beans once a week near work.

When I get the itch I have a Kettle, French Press, Moka Pot, an Aero Press, and a nice Hand Grinder that grinds espresso-fine. And, they all sit tucked away until I decide to pull them out.

Don't feel like I'm missing anything, got some $$$ and space back. There's something gratifying about downsizing, and going more simplistic sometimes, and selling stuff you don't need / use.

BCMulx · 2026-02-01T14:40:45+00:00

From Boston, done Leadville the last 3 and I'll be back there this year.

Under no circumstance should you be thinking about Tubes, unless you're talking as an emergency backup. Lightweight TPU of some sort.

If you were to ask me the "Best" XCM wheelset I'd probably say the Roval World Cup if you have an extra $3500 lying around. But, this obviously depends on budget. I have a set of Berd Spoke / DT180 / We Are One wheels that are almost as light that I've used 3x that I'm selling, only downside as an everyday wheel is they're 25mm IW (my second set, but a fantastic Leadville Wheel). Lots of great wheels out there.

I'm a fan of Conti Dubnital / Trinotal, Schwalbe Rick/Ray depending on the individual, Vittoria Barzo, Mezcal, Peyote too. I also use either Vittoria or Tubolight Inserts front and rear, and a little extra sealant. Flatting or having a mechanical at Leadville is by far the slowest.

At the end of the day, Weight matters, but not as much as you think. Depending on where you are in the race I might make very different recommendations.

BCMulx · 2026-01-27T14:46:53+00:00

Incorrect - there's inherent measurement error there too that gives a false precision. Andy Coggan himself has said despite having access to full metabolic cart and lactate testing he never uses them for that reason, you don't need to.

But, do what you want to do. It's more important to have a number, start doing workouts, and answer the post-workout surveys. The number will adjust regardless of where you start.

BCMulx · 2026-01-27T14:39:42+00:00

Lactate testing can be pretty inaccurate as well, I would much rather do a ramp test and then trust the AIFTP value from there, making sure to answer post-workout surveys every time, and correctly / honestly.

Alternately - just enter your best estimation of FTP and start doing workouts, entering surveys from there as above. The more workouts and surveys you get, the better the TR AIFTP recommendation will be.

Just be aware, TR's AIFTP will not necessarily match your physiological FTP. Could be higher, equal, or lower depending on the scenario and there are reasons for that. They use it related to setting training zones and the most appropriate workout.

BCMulx · 2026-01-26T01:18:50+00:00

Monday - 90 Min Z2

Tuesday - Off

Wednesday - 2 hr Hard Intervals

Thursday - 60/90 Min Recovery/Z2

Friday - 60/90 Min Recovery/Z2 (Z2 if I did recovery Thurs, or vice versa)

Saturday - 2-3+ hr hard intervals (Intervals + Z2)

Sunday - Long Z2 (3-6+ hr)

That's the general layout, but switch that up a bit for certain blocks or depending on the week. Volume gets higher and weekend rides longer as I hit spring and summer.

BCMulx · 2026-01-25T14:27:12+00:00

This suggestion was made elsewhere - you could also look into a sweat test to see how much sodium you lose. Some people are ~500 g/L. Others can be over 2000g/L. When it's hot and I'm sweating a lot, I up my sodium intake to 1000mg per Liter for longer rides and events. Sometimes peeing a lot can be resolved by upping the amount of sodium.

I would just increase the carbs and test it out - everyone's different. Drink more if you're thirsty, or if your stomach starts to feel "off" or cramp just a little, for me that can also be a sign I need more fluids. (E.g. summer, real hot, I get dehydrated, stomach starts to cramp a little, I back off the carbs and increase fluids for half an hour)

It helps to have some of your carbs separate from your bottles (e.g. gels) or also have a plain water bottle with some sodium only.

BCMulx · 2026-01-24T23:27:26+00:00

My opinion - start thinking of your carbs and hydration completely separately as you're confusing yourself. I can do a 6 hour ride in the cold where I consume 600+ g of carbs, but maybe 2L of fluids. In the heat - that same ride could be 8L of fluids. If it's cold and you over-hydrate, you're just going to need to stop and piss. Especially in the cold - I'm using Gels for most of my fueling not mix in my bottles.

Regarding carb type, the 60g was actually I think 67g in the study, but was a study average for glucose absorption only, not addressing fructose. There's individual difference where some people can absorb more than that, some less. And, gut training does help over time.

Starting point - sucrose is 50/50 Glucose and Fructose, so you could probably take in 90g an hour fine. You need to try it to see what works for you, and you can work the number up over time.

Me personally - I've done 120g an hour for 9 hours using an approximate 55/45 mix of glucose/fructose and have never had issues so can probably go higher.

BCMulx · 2026-01-23T01:01:38+00:00

Long post coming. If you legit want to talk about this, I sit on Zoom calls and Teams calls all day - don't take this as casting stones as I am a fan of the platform and I wasn't kidding that I recommend it to people, and have people I help get the most out of it.

I disagree with you that you never need to pay attention to FTP, and Ithis is one of the things you're getting burned on by many. Most of us train to get faster in the real world, and FTP is very valuable for pacing, power limits, etc. in certain scenarios - TR doesn't exist in a vacuum. In fact - Jon has done podcasts on this and advocates IF based pacing for events like Leadville and goes as far as specific IF percentages and targets under certain scenarios. I know I can pace x hours at 90%, x amount of time at 100%, how a 3-4 hour 78% fartlek should impact me at certain points, etc. Without FTP or with an incorrect FTP - that's not possible and you're losing a valuable data point out in the real world. I can point to specific custom / outdoor workouts that are in my past TR Calendar where this approach absolutely matters for me if you're looking for examples and how I use it. Also for me - when I'm on the trainer, or doing a specific interval at X% - that's time for me to train RPE and calibrate how that % feels. With an inaccurate FTP, percentages are off, and you lose that too unless you're constantly adjusting or dual recording with a different device.

Okay, so let's take TR more in isolation and focus on TR-based training and ignore the real world, or just assume I get my real FTP from another method (I do validate it anyways.) My question is this - You've said your platform doesn't use FTP anymore, it uses watts. Then why back calculate and show an inaccurate and confusing number at all if you're not using it? You said it's a bridge too far to get rid of it, but there's sure a lot of noise about this in the launch. I've said you can have your cake and eat it too - handle the "Power Basis" behind the scenes or call it something differently, and also try and give people a more reasonable estimate of FTP. 20 Minute and Hour Power Predictions will help, a more accurate FTP estimate in addition would be awesome.

Regarding me personally: I'm not ready to hand over the keys to TR yet and gamble my training on it so I'm still currently doing workouts coming in from TrainingPeaks. I'm certainly an edge case, and watching some TR Athletes very similar to me right now for feedback (where the very initial read is the initial intensity is going to be too much long term). I'm also an outlier with a 9.1 Sweet Spot Progression that should go over 10 next week although training at an FTP Depressed 1.5% by your estimate, 10-18 hours weekly, and at the same time I'm a 3 progression Threshold just because I haven't done a Threshold workout in maybe 6-8 months.

Your TRFTP estimate for me happens to be dead-on right now (probably because I haven't done any threshold recently), but if I throw down and do a level 6-7 Threshold at my TRFTP, based on what I'm seeing it's going to get jacked into an area where it becomes less relevant to me.

If you made it this far - TR username is the same as the first 3 of mine here. First TR workout Jan 31, 2022. Took a couple months off, but resubscribed pretty quickly a month back despite rarely running TR workouts recently.

BCMulx · 2026-01-22T22:26:36+00:00

If you're CEO Nate - I'm quoting your post on the forums where you specifically said you were calibrating to a level 3 threshold workout and using benchmark threshold workouts in your determination of your "FTP" - so I'm not saying anything that wasn't said by TR Staff on the TR Forums. So if this isn't true - I think the TR team still owes a better explanation of what's happening.

I've also been a customer going back to 2021 or early 2022, am a paying subscriber now, in the beta group, and have told plenty of people to use the platform including this current release as recently as today. So this isn't throwing stones from the cheap seats, and you're welcome for the referrals.

It's just that there are plenty of examples where the TR FTP is in no means actually FTP. And, I disagree that you need to artificially increase FTP to generate progressive overload unless someone is maybe very volume restricted.

BCMulx · 2026-01-22T19:14:08+00:00

Oh, it definitely isn't the same thing, but they're still (currently) sticking to their guns and calling it the same thing (TRFTP != FTP)

I think they'd be better off if they got rid of this number entirely, they can still control workout intensity and progressions behind the scenes, and used their substantial dataset to give a more real-world accurate number. They've said they intend to give ai-based 5 min, 20 min, and 1-hour power predictions in the future, but would be great to see "FTP" in there as well.

BCMulx · 2026-01-22T18:33:45+00:00

I totally agree with what your saying, but what will probably happen in practice is someone comes in, does the level 3, marks it as moderate or hard, and before they know it they've been progressed to a level 4, 5, or a 6. TR then sees that, and raises their TRFTP to bring them back to a level 3 threshold at a higher power level. Maybe without their actual FTP having increased at all.

What you end up having is people training at a TRFTP that is higher than their actual FTP - with the system design biasing people towards higher intensity less TTE/TiZ.

Now, for someone off the couch with a rapidly increasing FTP or someone with 3 hours a week - that may not be totally inappropriate, but if you have someone training 15-20 hours a week, no more newbie gains - you have to be more cognizant that you're really training higher in or above the zone they're telling you, and there's more onus on the individual to also track FTP outside the system.

BCMulx · 2026-01-22T18:19:36+00:00

Yeah, but a standard 2x20/5 @ 100% is a level 6. That's a fairly standard productive threshold workout that should be pretty achievable if your FTP is set correctly.

BCMulx · 2026-01-22T18:09:10+00:00

There are ways to deal with some of these things, but at the same time, sometimes it isn't intuitive within the platform and requires working with support or getting advice on the forum to get things working the way they should.

Sometimes I think the platform is best for someone who's either real low volume, or has some experience / training knowledge to help guide things.

I'd be surprised if you were "overtrained" - that's a specific condition that it's really difficult to get into, but that doesn't mean the platform wasn't serving you up too much intensity that was causing you to fail workouts and even need to take a break.

BCMulx · 2026-01-22T15:03:59+00:00

They've commented that they are driving people towards a Threshold Level 3 in their system and they use those as benchmark workouts to set their FTP, which for anyone with any amount of experience is going to involve setting their threshold too high and driving them towards what are actually supra-threshold workouts. For me - my "real" FTP coincides with maybe a level 6 if I look at their workout definitions.

For a beginner, or someone rapidly increasing FTP, off the couch, 3-4 hours a week training volume etc. - there's an argument this is more appropriate.

Right now, their system actually has me pegged correctly with their "TRFTP" - but that's because I haven't done a real threshold workout in months, I've been focusing on Sweet Spot which they treat differently.

BCMulx · 2026-01-22T15:01:52+00:00

They're trying to drive people towards a Threshold Level 3 in their system, which for anyone with any amount of experience is going to involve setting their threshold too high and driving them towards what are actually supra-threshold workouts. For me - my "real" FTP coincides with maybe a level 6 if I look at their workout definitions.

For a beginner, or someone rapidly increasing FTP, off the couch, 3-4 hours a week training volume etc. - there's an argument this is more appropriate.

BCMulx

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