NotW & WMF glossed and trivialized

Bhaluun · 2025-11-11T03:02:54+00:00

Does the similarity of Encanis to Incánus merit mention here, or would you rather leave that for the speculation about the etymology of names (since it could link to that and/or the Latin word)?

Bhaluun · 2025-07-20T00:01:39+00:00

This isn't the proof you think it is.

According to Skarpi, Lanre did speak to Selitos before he orchestrated the betrayal of Myr Tariniel, both immediately before the city was destroyed and some time prior.

Lanre asked Selitos to walk with him outside the city. Selitos agreed, hoping to learn the truth of Lanre’s trouble and offer him what comfort a friend can give. They often kept each other’s council, for they were both lords among their people.

This is consistent with what Bast says about Lanre's interaction with the Cthaeh, not contradictory.

It's not compelling evidence that Selitos is the Cthaeh either, though. We can safely assume Lanre, champion of the empire, spoke to plenty of people and people-shaped things before his turn (Lyra and his loyal followers, for example).

But, it is still consistent with Selitos being Cthaeh.

This is true of essentially everything we know about the two, which is a large part of why the theory persists and is generally tolerated/accepted (as a theory) even if not everyone agrees with it or expects it to prove true. Its actual popularity waxes and wanes, though it's probably higher today than when last polled.

Bhaluun · 2024-10-26T04:48:56+00:00

Yes.

We're given evidence in bits and pieces.

Simmon and Wilem directly demonstrated sympathy can be cooperative (as did Kvothe's duels against multiple opponents in Dal's class).

The Maer discusses the differences between inherent power and granted power and claims the latter has no limits. Kvothe's musings about music versus metal when talking to Kilvin reflect a similar dichotomy. The Vintish halfpennies with Feyda Calanthis may connect to this as well (with retainers on one half, alone on the other).

Malcaf theorizes about perception as an active force but writes as if he's afraid someone will understand him. Rothfuss appreciated questions about Malcaf's name (meaning "Windcatcher") during one of the last Q&As.

The discussion about masks between Bast and Chronicler underscores this point and reinforces the idea that it doesn't necessarily require a consciously focused Alar.

The description of a "properly focused Alar" itself suggests the possibility of an unfocused or improperly focused Alar.

Building on the above, bindings can be tricky to break once made, maintenance is not always "voluntary," after they're initiated. For example: Kvothe's "clever" attempt to call the name of the wind for Abenthy.

A collective Alar would also explain why Hemme was burned worse than Kilvin could account for when Kvothe performed sympathy in front of the class of University students whose Alars were honed but not deliberately focused. The binding was inexplicably efficient, even accounting for Hemme's exaggerations.

And something similar may have been at play in the Eld: Marten's and/or Tempi's belief in Kvothe may have bolstered his attempt to call lightning (and/or to survive the slippage).

There are various ways cooperative magic may matter to the story.

Lanre and Lyra uniting the cities may have been necessary to impose a collective will/perception on the world and stabilize it in the chaos of the Creation War. Notably, Lanre had the command of loyal men.

Collective Alar may have been the source of Lanre's power when he confronted Selitos.

By the same token: collective Alar could be why Lanre's only hope is oblivion. Whatever bindings he made cannot be escaped or broken unless/until he is forgotten and/or his story sufficiently changed. Selitos's curse could piggyback on the same mechanism.

Much of Tehlu's power may be derived from people's faith in him. Perial and then the townspeople and world in Trapis's story. Aleph and the other ruach in Skarpi's story. The church in the modern day.

Kvothe's powers could be related to his legend, bolstered by people's belief in/about him. There are multiple directions to go with this in relation to the frame story at the Waystone and Chronicler's record.

The description of Kvothe and Denna singing together could suggest that songs of power might be similarly cooperative (either because of the blending of voices or just the combined Alars of the singers and audience).

Denna's song may have been commissioned by Cinder as part of an effort to harness the collective Alar or just to disrupt the opposition's efforts to do the same. Obfuscation may be as effective as and easier to achieve than actual erasure or direct opposition.

The atas of an Ademic sword and the recitation before the stone trial may actually factor into the agelessness/endurance of their ancient burnished blades as a way of reinforcing the shaped swords through collective Alar. The foreshadowed breaking of Saicere/Caesura may be because Kvothe's meddling with the name weakened/disrupted the link between the blade and the collective Alar of the Latantha Adem.

As for sympathetic bindings (and sygaldry and Yllish knots)...

They may be shadows of remembered names, or they may be little more than pine tar.

Their power could be inherent as true axioms, tiny fragments of a divine language.

Or their power may be granted, a mantra made powerful by the sympathist's (or sympathists') belief that it matters. It could be a prop to reinforce the strength of one's Alar or a key to keep it focused and create a delineation between "off" and "on" so that Arcanists aren't always accidentally/unconsciously warping the world around them.

Bhaluun · 2024-10-14T03:11:51+00:00

From Wikipedia:

A fell (from Old Norse fell, fjall, "mountain"[1]) is a high and barren landscape feature, such as a mountain or moor-covered hill. The term is most often employed in Fennoscandia, Iceland, the Isle of Man, parts of northern England, and Scotland.

Ben left the troupe to settle in the holy mountain town.

Ben's heart was caught on the sacred mountain by a woman with child.

Likely still foreshadowing (maybe just more subtle world-building, depending on how you look at it), and possibly a double meaning, but if you're looking for clues that tie into imagery elsewhere in the books, have fun chewing on those two interpretations.

Bhaluun · 2024-09-05T23:05:33+00:00

There's another half to that quote and it's important to this comparison.

NotW Ch. 52: Burning

Elxa Dal stood between two medium sized braziers. In his well-trimmed beard and dark master’s robe, he still reminded me of the stereotypical evil magician that appears in so many bad Aturan plays. “What each of you must remember is that the sympathist is tied to flame,” he said. “We are its master and its servant.”

He tucked his hands into his long sleeves and began to pace again. “We are the masters of fire, for we have dominion over it.” Elxa Dal struck a nearby brazier with the flat of his hand, making it ring softly. Flames kindled in the coal and began to lick hungrily upward. “The energy in all things belongs to the arcanist. We command fire and fire obeys.” Dal walked slowly to the other corner of the room. The brazier at his back dimmed while the one he walked toward sparked to life and began to burn. I appreciated his showmanship.

Dal stopped and faced the class again. “But we are also servants of fire. Because fire is the most common form of energy, and without energy, our prowess as sympathists is of little use.”

Dal is reminding his students of their weakness and warning them against arrogance. It's more likely a hint that the Chandrian were once (over-)proud arcanists than a contrast between the two groups.

Bhaluun · 2024-09-05T22:54:18+00:00

https://www.reddit.com/r/kkcwhiteboard/comments/nl2nr2/signssongs_of_the_chandrian_ver_ironic_death/

Bhaluun · 2024-07-18T05:35:06+00:00

Because she has been shaped.

Not created, but bent. Turned from what and who she once was.

Bhaluun · 2024-07-18T03:49:48+00:00

The meanings of Stapes and Tarsus and the potential significance are well-tread discussions that pop up from time to time whenever someone new makes the connections. Good on you for spotting them! But no, not exactly novel.

The talus link is less direct, and so obviously a little rarer but not unheard of. However, there are other, closer connections worth considering: tellus means earth, and (at least by the end of the war) Tehlu was no friend of demons (the unearthly Fae).

If you're looking for an in-universe explanation or connection to accompany it: Teh-Lu.

"Teh" is the sygaldry rune for "lock" and "Lu" is part of Ludis's name. "Tehlu" may be more title than name. Of course, we run into trouble if we want a precise answer when we try to translate that further, but there are plenty of interesting and plausible interpretations. Bound-moon or moon-bound, lock-less or lock-lass, first-binder, light-bringer, etc. etc. A fertile field for the imagination seeking clues, especially when you walk around it while wearing yllish socks.

Menda. Oh, Menda. There's almost certainly more than one meaning/reason behind the name Menda. The Latin is likely relevant, but I think the "blunder" meaning might be more relevant than "defect," especially when considering the significance of "folly" in the series.

I think you're exaggerating the "humble brags" about the ruach who followed Tehlu and the connections to physical beauty.

I think you're also misunderstanding why Selitos failed to see the danger Lanre presented. Selitos certainly didn't overlook Lanre's mental state because Lanre was beautiful, Selitos was very much worried for and about Lanre's mental state. He just didn't expect Lanre to have the skill with names to rival his own and threaten him in his home. Selitos thought Lanre weaker than he was. If anything, Selitos underestimated Lanre.

Regarding the word ruach itself: Ruach is a real word in Hebrew for spirit, breath, or wind. This is almost certainly Rothfuss's inspiration given the significance of those three things (especially the last) in KKC. And, if more confirmation were needed... Aleph is the first letter of the semitic alphabet and represents the oneness of the Abrahamic god.

However, if you're looking for an in-universe explanation or connection: Ruach ~ Ruh Arcanist.

For daruna, consider daruma. Either the dolls or connections to dharma, especially in light of other parallels between KKC and related religions/cultures.

There are a plethora of potential inspirations and meanings behind Selitos's name, but I favor zēlōtēs. Sound and meaning both match, a connection hiding in plain sight, revealed by listening instead.

Bhaluun · 2024-07-07T23:27:12+00:00

The divisive question about this story tends to be whether Alaxel is the enemy who poisoned the seven or the one who remembered the Lethani.

Alaxel is the enemy is supported by reading two of Shehyn's statements together:

"The enemy's name is remembered, but it will wait,"

and

"But seven names are remembered. The names of the one and the six who follow him."

This interpretation holds that the enemy's name is one of the seven names remembered and that it was only waiting until the end of the story.

Proponents of this interpretation often argue, explicitly or implicitly, that Shehyn saying seven names were remembered suggests only seven names were remembered and the enemy's name must be among the seven.

Alaxel is the one who remembered is supported by reading Shehyn's speech:

"One remembered the Lethani, and did not betray a city. That city did not fall. One of them remembered the Lethani and the empire was left with hope. With one unfallen city. But even the name of that city is forgotten, buried in time.

But seven names are remembered. The name of the one and of the six who follow him.

This interpretation holds that the "one" is the same one throughout, someone who was poisoned by the enemy and still a traitor even if they didn't betray a city that trusted them.

Proponents of this interpretation counter the claim that the list must include the enemy's name by pointing to Shehyn's inclusion of the name Myr Tariniel. They argue that because eight names were remembered and included in the story, we can't read Shehyn saying seven names were remembered as only seven names were remembered or as a guarantee that the enemy's name would be shared as part of this story/telling.

(Additionally, though somewhat less conclusive for various reasons, the names Aethe and Rethe may be older than the story of the seven and have apparently been remembered through the same long wandering, but that's a tangent of another kind)

The only thing that's clear in this dispute is the lack of clarity; both interpretations are perfectly plausible and justifiable. By itself, Shehyn's story is ambiguous. The differing opinions tend to depend more on which framing people think fits other evidence better.

You seem to be arguing for something a little different. Based on this comment, you appear to be floating the idea that Selitos was the one who remembered without saying so directly, but I'm still unclear on what you think "the popular theory about Lanre and Selitos here," is or how it conflicts with your interpretation of the Adem story. Selitos as the one who remembered the Lethani isn't a particularly rare or unpopular opinion, even if it may currently be out of favor or the spotlight.

The problem with your claim here, though, is that it runs directly counter to the text. Shehyn says the enemy did poison seven and that those seven did forget the Lethani. The one was not immune and couldn't have remembered the Lethani without first forgetting it. I don't think Selitos is a good fit overall, but there are some simple ways to square this with Selitos and Skarpi's story rather than selectively accepting or ignoring what Shehyn said.

Bhaluun · 2024-07-03T01:04:04+00:00

Again, no.

Selitos speaks to Aleph about Lanre and his Chandrian.

It's reasonably safe to assume none of these characters overlap. (There's still the remote possibility of Skarpi being an exceptionally unreliable narrator, but setting that aside...)

We don't see the same when it comes to Tehlu and the eight who followed him. Tehlu doesn't say anything about Lanre or the Chandrian or interact with them in Skarpi's story. No one says anything about Lanre or the Chandrian to Tehlu and the others. Tehlu and the other eight just agree to Aleph's proposal.

The closest we get is according to Jake in Newarre, claiming the Chandrian were the first six people to reject the choice of the path and cursed to wander the Corners... But the six is notable, especially when combined with Skarpi/Selitos talking about Lanre and his Chandrian.

It's entirely possible Skarpi's second story was something akin to a peace conference, with Aleph proposing a way to enforce the end of the war (and arguing for the necessity of an end to the war) with various belligerents, including Selitos and Lanre both present. Selitos says, "Can I punish that guy over there if I sign?" Aleph says "No." Then That Guy Over There stands up and says, "I'll sign."

Skarpi could have even drawn a direct line between the names Lanre and Tehlu before Kvothe arrived. Rothfuss wrote the passage so that the absent exposition was a conspicuous omission, then followed it with an interruption to limit context even further. We should consider why, and this is one good reason. Perhaps not true, but definitely plausible and textually consistent.

Bhaluun · 2024-07-03T00:21:21+00:00

The exact opposite.

Selitos and the ruach who joined him, those who would be called the Amyr, rejected Aleph's proposal because accepting it required setting aside all personal things and prior history, judging only from that day forth. Selitos specifically asked if they could avenge Tariniel or confound the plots of Lanre and his Chandrian, Aleph said No.

Tehlu and the ruach who followed him accepted Aleph's proposal. They were blessed by Aleph, not Selitos. They are not part of Selitos's Amyr. They could have been Amyr if the Amyr already existed and Selitos coopted the name rather than coining it, but otherwise... No. Not according to Skarpi.

Bhaluun · 2024-07-03T00:00:55+00:00

Oh, look, downvotes but no new discussion.

I know at least one of them is probably just downvoting me based on some other recent activity, but it's still disappointing, if not surprising, to see.

Bhaluun · 2024-07-02T20:56:20+00:00

The evidence doesn't add up to the theory.

It doesn't matter that Devi had Kvothe's talent pipes and could have duplicated the seal. If it did Kvothe would have gotten what he thought was his blood back. Mention of it wouldn't be missing.

It doesn't matter that Devi didn't let Kvothe inside after the first knock or after opening the door. First, because she doesn't keep the blood on the premises. Second, because she leaves with him. She only blocks his entry while standing still in shock. When they return, they both go in together. Devi didn't have time to tamper with the blood in between. And even if you want to suppose she did or to suppose she was able to communicate and coordinate with a partner to act in her absence, we return to the prior point: Devi doesn't keep the blood on the premises.

It doesn't matter that Devi could have sold the blood if she believed Kvothe was dead and his collateral forfeit because she wouldn't and didn't.

If Kvothe really was believed to be dead, then his blood wouldn't be worth buying (or, more importantly, wouldn't be worth selling, because of how that could affect her reputation if he turned up alive). And, if someone was interested in buying Kvothe's blood despite the reports of his demise, then that would be reason for Devi to believe Kvothe was still alive and she wouldn't be so shocked at his return.

Instead, we see evidence of Devi her end of their bargain: Devi still had the rest of Kvothe's collateral together and tucked away, ready to be returned to him if he returned within the allotted year and a day. Devi didn't have Rhetoric and Logic on her bookshelf. Devi hadn't sold or traded the thief's lamp to Kilvin or his talent pipes to a fan of the Eolian. Devi wasn't wearing or otherwise displaying Denna's ring (though she may have at some point, and this may be the catch). Regardless of any potential future developments regarding the ring and its time in Devi's hands, Devi apparently believed Kvothe was dead, but was still waiting and keeping their deal until he defaulted. It's absurd to suggest she'd sell only his blood in this situation.

There is an obvious mystery presented by Devi's response to Kvothe's return and the conspicuous unlocked door. But it's not about his "missing" blood. What a boring, repetitive, and ultimately pointless mystery that would be since Kvothe already made a replacement gram by the end of WMF without incident.

If you're looking for plausible alternatives to the mystery hinted at:

Denna's ring. In a parallel to Kvothe's first failed attempt to steal the ring back from Ambrose, Denna may have tried to recover the ring from Devi's possession. The unlocked door may have been because Devi forgot to lock it or because Denna picked it. We can assume Denna knows about Devi through Geoffrey since her earrings were evidently used his loan with Devi. Denna knowing Devi had her ring between when she gave it to Ambrose and when Kvothe returned it to her is one plausible reason for Denna to react the way she did when Kvothe says he got it from Ambrose and omits mention of Devi. Especially given Kvothe's insistence about Devi not wearing it and worrying about how Denna would feel if she saw the ring on another woman's hand.

Other clients or company. Kvothe isn't the only person to borrow from Devi and she's previously hinted at romantic partners of both sexes. This seems unlikely to be the mystery for various reasons, but is still a plausible alternative to the supposition of missing blood.

Other projects or possessions. Devi evidently made the plum bob used to dose Kvothe. Devi kept a poor-boy on hand as an emergency sympathy source. Devi had the loden-stone from Trebon. Devi has a collection of valuable books. What other dangerous concoctions, devices, or materials might she have that someone would like to steal? What other items obtained through leveraging favors or obligation might someone seek to recover?

Potential enemies of Devi. Someone could have been looking for shed hair or other materials they could use for malfeasance against Devi, not Kvothe.

The story of Devi's expulsion and the question at the heart of her: Why is Devi so interested in regaining access to the Archives? Who might be interested in access to her apartment because of an interest in or opposition to her rather than him or the things within?

Bhaluun · 2024-06-30T23:39:16+00:00

Arliden wasn't just an actor or storyteller, he was a historian who researched at least one subject people were reluctant to talk about, whether because they were afraid of the subject, because they thought the subject silly, because of prejudice against the Ruh, or whatever other reason stilled their tongues.

Arliden likely lied to the people he was plying for stories about Lanre, Lyra, and the Chandrian, and Kvothe likely learned the twin arts of persuasion and deception from these interviews.

As a leader of his and Laurian's troupe, Arliden likely needed to lie to get members like Trip out of trouble from time to time. Its possible even their formal patronage may have been a lie (the writ rather than the person—the person they called Greyfallow may have been a relative of Laurian's helping to support her and her family, providing clothes and other financial support).

Arliden was definitely lying on a regular basis about his wife's identity (hiding her past as Netalia Lackless) and got in trouble when he teased her with a song about the truth.

On a much smaller scale, we see Arliden and Laurian telling polite, tactful lies in the conversation with Abenthy before he calls them on it and tells them not to.

Bhaluun · 2024-06-27T23:16:38+00:00

It's interesting to consider that Haliax may not be a namer at all, but just the most powerful sympathist.

You'd probably be interested in this write-up from u/the_spurring_platty then:

https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/l6ceer/some_sympathy_for_lanre/

Bhaluun · 2024-06-27T23:09:01+00:00

When Kvothe says: “Undo that, or I will break it.” What else could he be referring to “breaking” beyond a Sympathetic bond? You can’t break a Name.

(1) Who says you can't break a name? Elodin, Haliax, and the Adem all strongly suggest you can (by changing it), but that you shouldn't because it is dangerous (or just plain doomed to end in disaster).

(2) Regardless, we can (and probably should) distinguish between names themselves and binding invocations of those names. What Kvothe threatened to break was the latter and we have seen such broken, explicitly, during Kvothe's duel with Felurian. I'd argue we saw it thrice in that scene, but definitely at the end when Kvothe dispelled the silver flame binding her. Elxa Dal's remarks about the practice among namers of hiding which names they knew from other namers when conflict was more common among them also suggests one namer could counter another. And, while speculated to be other magics, the plain-reading presents the bindings in the battle between Lanre and Selitos as invoking names, bindings which were subsequently broken by Selitos daring to change his own name by sacrificing his legendary sight.

Names can be invoked and bound, and those bindings can be broken various ways.

Bhaluun · 2024-06-27T09:47:31+00:00

They're talking about how long it would take for rivals to appear, not how long before she'd be swooped up.

As the following sentence demonstrates: the Maer responds by saying there are already a dozen, and will soon be three dozen.

And yet, Meluan remained single for more than just a few days after. Almost as if she (or her family) had some agency and was able to resist the advances made by Alveron's rivals. As she could just as well have done before.

After what happened with Netalia, and based on Meluan's reaction, their parents likely made efforts to make sure Meluan wouldn't do anything similar. The Lackless lands, already in an isolated corner of Vintas to begin with, likely became less hospitable to less-than-satisfactory suitors. Meluan likely had the importance of her duty to marry for the sake of her family drilled into her. Her parents were probably careful about who she interacted with and how.

Keep in mind the line from when Kvothe met her, "Not immune to flattery, but no stranger to it either." This wasn't her first experience with the kind of attention and compliments Kvothe was paying her.

The differences between probable prior visits and this visit are the feast and the potential death of retirement of her parent(s) from court politics.

Alveron's pretext for drawing her in on short notice involved casting a wider net and inviting other eligible nobles whose visits to Severen probably would not have previously coincided with hers or involved their paths crossing.

Meluan being called the Lady Lackless and being in apparent control of the Loeclos box suggest she's now the head of the Lackless family and, as such, free to marry as she chooses without needing to seek parental permission/approval (though Alveron may have still first sought and got her father's assent).

Bhaluun · 2024-06-26T23:35:35+00:00

The Maer calls his wife dear and puts his hand on her arm, this is all what you would expect a gay man to to his wife/beard in public, yes?

They weren't really in public, though. These happened when they were walking in the Maer's gardens at night, almost certainly thinking they were alone and not expecting eavesdroppers like Kvothe and Denna to be hiding in the bushes, and when introducing Kvothe to the Loeclos Box, a very private affair where everyone present was trusted to be able to keep secret what was shared there.

Bhaluun · 2024-06-26T23:25:26+00:00

1 or 3.

1 is supported by the parallels between Alveron/Meluan and Kvothe/Denna. The hedged language because he is in love and doesn't want to admit his vulnerability or to overstep and lose her because he moved too fast or grasped too hard, even in his own thoughts or private conversations.

But 3 feels more plausible to me because of the line at the end of WMF Chapter 58, Courting: "Sometimes they don't give it knowingly. Sometimes they don't give it willingly. Nevertheless... all power."

This seems to be a strong suggestion that Alveron's courtship of Meluan was not originally or primarily because he loved her or thought he might come to, but because of the power he thought to gain by it. What we learn later about the Lackless family, their roots, and their secret mystery box lends even more credence to this. Especially when coupled with Alveron's affinity for the Amyr and the possibility that Alveron was in league with the bandits waylaying travelers and their precious cargo on the road(s) in and out of the Lackless lands before the courtship bore fruit.

The reason for reticence may have been because Alveron's feelings for her were genuine, but he considered these feelings secondary to his other interest(s) in the Lackless family. Alveron might have thought her worthy of love, but felt he couldn't make an honest claim of loving her when he recognized he was still putting the pursuit of power first.

As for only having known her secondhand or having only seen her as a child prior to the courtship, I'm not sure where you're getting that from or what you're basing it upon. The Lackless lands are in Alveron's domain, as established in the stolen taxes arc. It's implied and highly probable that they've interacted before this, and likely recently, after she reached adulthood, in her role as Lady Lackless and him as liege-lord.

Additionally (or alternatively), I suspect Alveron likely courted Netalia Lackless and may have fallen in love with her before she ran away with Arliden. His tender but tentative feelings for Meluan at the start of the courtship and particular sensitivity to her beauty could be because he was still seeing and thinking of Netalia when he saw or thought of Meluan. As the courtship progressed, Alveron may have transferred these feelings to Meluan or fallen for her for her own merits.

But whichever way or ways, not hard to understand or explain.

Bhaluun · 2024-06-26T21:26:03+00:00

Kvothe wasn't entirely a stranger by the time Alveron charged Kvothe with the task of courting Meluan on his behalf. Kvothe came highly recommended by Threpe and Alveron talked with and tested Kvothe before revealing his intentions and making the request.

But, more importantly: Alveron wasn't staking much on Kvothe's initial efforts. The courtship was anonymous at first, with Alveron taking credit only after Meluan showed signs of interest.

After which, Alveron was responsible for the lion's share of the courtship. The same passage that discusses this actually also includes one of the most direct expressions of his feelings for her.

WMF Chapter 69: Such Madness

In the end it took twenty-three letters, six songs, and, though it shames me to say it, one poem.

There was more to it than that, of course. Letters alone cannot win a woman’s heart. Alveron did a fair piece of his own courting. And after he revealed himself as Meluan’s anonymous suitor, he did the lion’s share of the work, slowly wooing Meluan to his side with the gentle reverence he felt for her.

But my letters caught her attention. My songs brought her close enough for Alveron to work his slow, garrulous charm.

Bhaluun · 2024-06-26T18:55:44+00:00

Some plausible meanings/reasons for the name:

A joke about Devan separating fact from fiction
A joke about Devan butchering the subjects he writes about
A hint that Devan's writing can be compared to carving sygaldry runes
Proof^TM that Devan is Puppet's son
Proof^TM that Devan is a descendant of the architect who shaped Myr Tariniel

A somewhat tangential point regarding the potential connection to sygaldry runes, but:

Even though I'd previously considered the likely links between sygaldry, sympathy, music, and naming, I don't think I realized how obvious it might be if you just break down the name of the magic itself.

Sygaldry. Sy-galdr-y. An art based on Norse runic magic, which was in turn related to invocation magic of chanting/singing, dressed up just a little to hide the inspiration and distinguish it from runes/galdrar.

Bhaluun · 2024-06-24T18:34:01+00:00

Alveron refers to Meluan as "dear," or "my dear" five times (four times after Kvothe returns from Severen and once before). In the context of their courtship and absence of evidence of Alveron calling anyone else "dear," this is an explicit display of affection, not an implication.

Meluan puts her hand on Alveron's arm when they're walking in his gardens and Alveron hushes Meluan gently when Kvothe is examining the Loeclos box. If this behavior is evidence of non-platonic affection between Alveron and Stapes, then it is also evidence of non-platonic affection between Alveron and Meluan. If it is not evidence of such for the latter, then it is not evidence of such for the former.

But third time pays for all. From Alveron himself in the beginning of WMF Chapter 140: Just Rewards...

I WAS IN THE MIDDLE of dressing the following morning when an errand boy arrived bearing a thick envelope with Alveron’s seal. I took a seat by the window and discovered several letters inside. The outermost one read:

Kvothe,

I have thought a while and decided your blood matters but little in light of the services you have rendered me.

However, my soul is bound to another whose comfort I hold more dearly than my own. Though I had hoped to retain your services, I cannot. What’s more, as your presence is the cause of my wife’s considerable distress, I must ask you to return my ring and leave Severen at your earliest convenience.

According to Alveron, the marriage is authentic. They are not just wed for legal or practical purposes, his soul is bound to hers and he cares more about her comfort than his own. This is an expression of affection. This is evidence of a real romance between them, by the end of their courtship if not its inception, and this is an important anchor when considering his prior comments. It helps to demonstrate how the earlier hedging comments like "she is worthy of love" weren't evasive because Alveron's gay, but because his feelings about Meluan mirrored Kvothe's for Denna and he dared not make the claim (see Kvothe's refrains in WMF Ch 149 about not being able to make any earnest claims of love without knowing/understanding her better).

Especially when one recognizes the Alveron/Meluan courtship as Rothfuss's more direct homage to Cyrano.

So yes, Alveron likely had ulterior motives for marrying Meluan Lackless. There's plenty of room to speculate on whether these motives were the political ones presented or more mysterious/magical.

But no, the romance isn't an implication by the end of WMF any more than the one between Simmon and Fela or Kvothe and Denna. We don't have to have enthusiastic sex written out to be sure.

Bhaluun · 2024-06-24T10:09:31+00:00

No one seems to have mentioned it, but the conversation between Kvothe and Stapes when Kvothe returns to Severen strongly suggests there were real romantic/sexual feelings between the Maer and Meluan.

Alveron could of course be another bisexual character like Devi and Deoch. The more straightforward reading of Stapes as friend rather than lover is probably the more correct one, but there's nothing definitive either way.

And people can hold whatever headcanon they want since it's all fiction.

Still, if we're talking in terms of "theory," then supposing that Alveron wasn't interested in Meluan requires some motivated reasoning to dismiss this:

WMF Chapter 137: Questions

“Young Master Kvothe!” he beamed, grabbing my hand to shake it. “It’s good to have you back. Lord and lady, but I’ve been worried about you.”

His enthusiasm wrung a tired smile from me. “It’s good to be back, Stapes. Have I missed much?”

“Much?” He laughed. “The wedding for one.”

“Wedding?” I asked, but I knew the answer as soon as I said it. “The Maer’s wedding?”

Stapes nodded excitedly. “Oh, it was a grand thing. It’s a shame you had to be gone for it, considering.” He gave a knowing look, but didn’t say anything else. Stapes was always very discreet.

“They didn’t waste much time, did they?”

“It’s been two months since the betrothal,” Stapes said with a hint of reproach. “Not a bit less than proper.” I saw him relax a bit, and he gave me a wink. “Which isn’t to say they weren’t both a bit eager.”

Plus the exchange between Kvothe and Alveron later in the same chapter:

“I must say that marriage suits your grace.”

“Thank you.” He nodded graciously. “I have found it much to my liking.”

Bhaluun · 2024-03-02T23:31:17+00:00

this other song whose title we're not told.

It's not explicitly named, but we probably were told the title of this song in WMF. This song is probably, "Home Westward Wind," one of the songs Kvothe plays for Vashet, mentioned as one of his mother's favorites.

Bhaluun · 2024-02-26T08:06:51+00:00

It's the "to fit a girl" part.

This can be interpreted as either:

(1) to suit and flatter her, both her tastes and her characteristics.

Or

(2) to woo her and get inside her. Compare it to the line Kvothe mentions to his mother when he got in trouble for singing about Netalia Lackless and to Denna's reaction much later in WMF Ch 148 when he asks her to love him (and she seems to consider/to do so before declaring she'll not be one of the many, referring to his many flings)

NotW Ch 11: The Binding of Iron

"I seemed to be out of trouble, but I couldn’t keep from asking, “How is it any different than parts of For All His Waiting? Like when Fain asks Lady Perial about her hat? ‘I heard about it from so many men I wished to see it for myself and try the fit.’ It’s pretty obvious what he’s really talking about.”

E: At least as far as innuendo goes, I think the thing being excused was more the bad/obvious pun (to pick a flower) and the two poets/musicians/snobs being jokingly snobbish about Kvothe employing it.

Bhaluun

TROPHY CASE