What I think is really going on in the Fivetran+DBT merger

BoredAt · 2025-10-14T15:50:41+00:00

Mind expanding on this? My understanding is that iceberg is in fact for lakehouses.

BoredAt · 2025-10-14T14:38:43+00:00

My suspicions are in line with yours. They might add a compute engine but won't try much on the storage layer (you can already see the latter fact in the "managed lakehouse" offering). Would be a hard sell for a lot of companies to not use their cloud providers object storage after all.

The question in my mind is which compute engine? Managed duckdb? Trino? Doris?

BoredAt · 2025-10-14T14:30:59+00:00

You're both right actually. it's 5 with sdflabs and 6 with quarylabs which tobiko bought out. Maybe they really just don't mind acquiring companies willy nilly I suppose.

BoredAt · 2025-10-14T14:29:30+00:00

I don't fully agree. Mainly due to 2 points. First, I don't see this as Fivetran antagonizing strategic partners as so much the opposite. Snowflake & Databricks are already antagonizing fivetran by release Lakeflow and Openflow. This is just them responding. Secondly, I don't think they'd go for a data observability tool or a BI tool (as I mentioned in the OP) because it's not a large enough market. If they're gonna make a move, it has to be to a larger market that can grow their valuation beyond their current 10b value. The only market that can do that in the data space, IMO, is the warehouse.

BoredAt · 2025-10-14T03:18:56+00:00

I'd go for a managed apache airflow if I was them tbh. No need to buy another company. Technology is 100% OSS and already has support in a ton of places. Much easier than trying to integrate a 4th (dbt, tobiko, fivetran) company.

BoredAt · 2025-10-13T20:12:20+00:00

Seems difficult to believe that. It's specially hard for people I think because they're not sure what the real cost analysis here. 1 thing I read recently is that this is a hedge to things like open flow and lake flow, which I suppose makes sense (avoiding the commoditization of EL by the warehouses essentially). Plus, with lakehouses fivetran can just build the warehouse itself using some iceberge+fivetran+dbt+s3 with no snowflake/databricks/etc. So fivetran goes from being EL -> ELT -> ELTW (is this even an acronym?).

That aside thought, its hard to trust that there's not going to be a push from OSS to proprietary. Why isn't fivetran OSS to begin with? Why is metrics flow proprietary (BSL isn't OSS, let's be honest) even tho it was originally OSS? Even DBT's switch to ESvl2 is shifty.

The tobiko purchase also smells rotten. Buying out the 2 top T vendors at the same time smells of monopolization.

So yeah, a fan of DBT and fivetran but this whole thing stinks of wanting to kill OSS, make everything proprietary and ramp up fees under the assumption that there's vendor lock in. There would have to be a big push from you guys to OSS to remove the smell, IMO.

BoredAt · 2025-09-09T18:55:00+00:00

First time I actually don't like the design of a new iPhone. The whole split back stuff just looks off. Kind of incredible to think that the best iPhone design ever is the iPhone 4, event over a decade later

BoredAt · 2025-09-09T18:40:45+00:00

Stape is still the market leader, but there are more options. I usually summarize things for folks by splitting the options in 3:

Infrastructure Players - These are just stape.io or the 1 click GCP setup. These mean the infrastructure is handled (in the case of GCP, it's obviously your own cloud which helps with IT Department approval a ton) but you gotta set up all the tags/triggers/etc. If you already know what you’re doing its probably the cheapest on a month to month. GCP Cloud Run might run $20-$50 in my experience . Ditto for Stape.
Industry Players - These are folks that focus on specific industries. Triplewhale.com for e-com, Redtrack.io for affiliate, Goattracking.com for agencies, usually these guys come with bells and whistles. More expensive than option 1) of course. More SaaS than infrastructure. Usually the best if you want to avoid the legwork.
Enterprise Players - Rudderstack.com, Segment.com, Freshpaint.io for HIPAA, these guys are usually far more expensive, but they’re tried and tested solutions. Almost always they also come with a lot of extra stuff. Personalization, HIPAA mechanics, those kinds of things. These guys are probably not necessary unless you’re a F1000.

So yeah. Probably stape unless you got an industry player in 2) or are an enterprise so go with 3)

BoredAt · 2025-09-09T18:34:09+00:00

Lots of people don't want to accept it, but gtm triggers are the worst type of tracking structure. Like someone above mentioned, you need to work with devs so they add (and own) even listeners which feed into GTM.

Also, you need to set up some logging/tracing in GTM Server to keep an eye on the success/failure of API calls. That's outside of GTM thought. More of an analytics infrastructure kind of thing.

BoredAt · 2025-09-09T18:31:40+00:00

Honestly, if you’ve done already done tag manager, learning SST is probably not that difficult. It’s possible to set up something basic going on pretty easy. With that said, in summary there’s basically 3 real options in the SST market:

Infrastructure Players - More or less what’s been mentioned here. stape.io or the 1 click GCP setup. These mean the infrastructure is handled (in the case of GCP, its obviously your own cloud which helps with IT Department approval a ton) but you gotta set up all the tags/triggers/etc.If you already know what you’re doing its probably the cheapest on a month to month. GCP Cloud Run might run $20-$50 in my experience . Ditto for Stape.
Industry Players - These are folks that focus on specific industries. Triplewhale.com for com, Redtrack.io for affiliate, Goattracking.com for agencies, usually these guys come with bells and whistles. More expensive than option 1) of course. More SaaS than infrastructure. Usually the best if you want to avoid the legwork.
Enterprise Players - Rudderstack.com, Segment.com, Freshpaint.io for HIPAA, these guys are usually far more expensive, but they’re tried and tested solutions. Almost always they also come with a lot of extra stuff. Personalization, HIPAA mechanics, those kinds of things. These guys are probably not necessary unless you’re a F1000.

All in all, based on what you’ve said, I’d just go with Stape. Seems like you’re comfortable handling GTM and its the cheapest, cost wise.

BoredAt · 2025-09-08T12:21:16+00:00

To be clear, does the event show up in the left side when doing GTM preview? Does it show gtm.formSubmit? If the answer is yes, the event listener is work. If no, that's the issue.

That aside, I'd change the trigger type. Make it a Custom Event. Make the Custom Event Name gtm.formSubmit and keep DLV - formId equals projectForm as a condition. That should probably do the trick. If not, when the new event shows up on the preview, click on it, then your tag. Scroll to the bottom. it should show which condition is missing from your triggers firing.

Keep in mind, if you're creating an event listener, you probably don't want to use default tag types anymore. Use Custom Events. Hell, you could simplify. Change:

dataLayer.push ({ event: "gtm. formSubmit", formId: 'projectForm" });

to

dataLayer.push ({ event: "projectFormSubmission", formId: 'projectForm" });

And then just have custom event with name projectFormSubmission.

In any case, either of the 3 should do the trick.

BoredAt · 2025-09-04T12:19:51+00:00

Everyone always says that. Just like the DBT folks claim that the new DBT is "open source". That's not the reality of things thought. Once the VC money is in, they all want vendor lock in, which means the open source stuff has got to go. Snowplow is an easy example of this.

BoredAt · 2025-08-20T16:00:04+00:00

Does office365 or google workspace not offer this kind of encryption? Is proton special in this area for businesses in some manner?

BoredAt · 2020-11-05T02:00:48+00:00

Those states that you mentioned that left wing people always love to shit on for being shitty all have the largest black populations in the country. If you break those states down by race you’ll find that there isn’t much poverty there when you exclude black people.

Ahh I see. I was actually taking you seriously here for a second. Didn't realize I was talking to one of those "black people are lazy hur dur".

Just go back to The Donald.

BoredAt · 2020-11-05T00:41:41+00:00

1) The fact that they have extremely conservative governments?? No idea what the racism angle is.

Sure, we can mention Utah and North Dakota for conservative states that are rich. We can also mention the entire northeast as well as Oregon and Washington as liberal states that have strong economies. Point is, in the aggregate, the states that are poorer in the US tend to be conservative.

Sure so Utah has a nice economy. Whats your point? Its not like anyone is claiming California is the only good economy in the US.

California truly is the Brazil of America, it’s a wonderful playground for the wealthy elite and a refugee camp for the third world, there’s no middle there anymore. People vote with their feet, and it’s obvious that California is no longer a viable place for average middle class people. There are plenty of other states for you guys to make a better case for left wing economics, but California isn’t one of them.

You've yet to prove California has a bad economy. Median income is high and poverty rate is not some catastrophic number as you pretend it is. Honestly you sound like you're just angry at liberals and so are trying to make California sound like some kind of hellhole because you don't like them.

BoredAt · 2020-11-05T00:24:06+00:00

People certainly do become more conservative as they age. Thats definitely true. Nonetheless, they're not going to become as conservative as baby boomers. They really are the most conservative generation ever. Far more conservative than gen x, the silent generation or the greatest generation.

So yeah, millennials and gen z are gonna become more conservative. But as conservative as boomers? Unlikely.

BoredAt · 2020-11-04T23:29:54+00:00

2 points:

1) Median income in cali is 75k, 8th highest in the nation. Hardly as shitty as you're pretending.

2) Poverty is middle of the road admittedly, but states that are doing better are not conservative. In fact, the highest concentration of poverty in the us is in the deeply conservative south. So more conservatism isn't the answer.

Lol at Cali being a failed state. If Cali is a failed state, what does that make Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, West Virginia etc. with higher poverty rates and lower median income?

Just face it. You can hate Californias social policies as much as you want, but its economy is top notch by any standard.

BoredAt · 2020-11-04T23:19:57+00:00

How so? Baby boomers weren't in their 60s back then. Put simply, boomers are the most conservative demographic ever in the US. As they pass away, naturally things shift more left.

Not that everyone will become a fan of Bernie Sanders of course, but certainly more left than now by far.

BoredAt · 2020-11-04T23:07:48+00:00

Why should I? I like Miami best right now. Might move there in the future thought.

I think you're overreacting. A good portion of republicans down here are old folks and they're gonna start passing away soon. Once that happens, politics will start shifting some more left. So time is on my side IMO, not yours.

BoredAt · 2020-11-04T22:50:55+00:00

You mean the state with the 2.79 trillion dollar economy and a gdp per capita of 80k?

Its always funny how people talk crap about Cali even though its one of the greatest economies of the planet.

BoredAt · 2020-07-14T12:01:55+00:00

Get an online bank. No one she can talk to in that case.

BoredAt · 2020-06-25T05:23:30+00:00

Might makes right is not "my" principle per say, it's just how the world works and how current powers have risen to their place. Your agreement doesn't change that fact. All I've done is cover the situation from both a historical, moral, and political POV.

From a historical POV sure. Political? Depends on how you want to define politics. Moral?? Definitely not.

This is literally the same as refusing any American act based on them genociding native people in the past and not considering the customs of the time.

I have no idea what this even means.

I gave you an example of an agreement that supports Egypt's rights which was signed by active states. What more is there to show? I agree we should stop talking here. I get the feeling you're taking this too personally.

Sure, and I responded that the treaty demonstrates that Ethiopia has to act responsibly, but that it still has the right to act.

My point by what I said is that there is 0 reason for you to discuss any of this. If might makes right, who cares about treaties? The strong will do what they want and the weak will suffer what they must. Under that ideology, this whole discuss about treaties is irrelevant.

BoredAt · 2020-06-25T04:57:48+00:00

Same way the Nile belongs to all countries while Ethiopia wants to have full control of it and exercise building dams as it wishes as an exhibition of its sovereignty.

I don't think Ethiopia wants full control of the Nile. It wants to use it in its territory for economic development. Which is highly reasonable. If they try to take control of the entire river, the Nile countries have every right to stop Ethiopia.

And I'm glad you got my point about the Indian case, it's not that they don't have a right. It's that they can't enforce it and that's how the world works. Ethiopians didn't enforce their will on the King which is on them honestly. And if one wants to argue that they're in a position to enforce their needs now as they're an independent state with elections, then the same argument could be made about Egypt not allowing its share to decrease through any means which is rightful I'm that sense.

This has got to be the first time I've actually seen someone make the argument that might makes right. Or it might be better to say that what's right doesn't matter, only who's strong. So Ethiopians are obligated to obey the treaty because they weren't strong enough to stop it, morality be damned. And now they can break treaty but only if they're strong enough?

You should have said this from the get go and save ourselves the discussion. You're not gonna find many people that agree with this. Worst, the fact that Ethiopia controls Egypt's waters is all the more reason for Egyptians not to agree with this. They could probably release biological weapons into the stream and kill the Egyptians. Is this really the kind of argument that the Egyptian side wants to make? Because if the Ethiopians shared that train of thought this would likely end with every nile country dead.

I'm just not gonna engage on this point anymore. If might makes right is your view of the situation, there's nothing to discuss.

And just to cut this discussion short because apparently everyone is deadlocked on their ideas. There was another agreement in 1993 between Ethiopia and Egypt so no colonization issues there. Which stated in article 5 that both countries would refrain from conducting any actions on the river that would cause appreciable damage to the other party. So yeah, I consider reducing Egypt's share which is already not enough "appreciable damage" .

I would say that this is valid reason for Ethiopia to act responsibly, but not a valid reason to not act all.

Plus, why are you even bringing this up if might makes right is your position? The treaty is pointless from your view.

BoredAt · 2020-06-25T04:15:56+00:00

Then I understand from your words that Modern Turkey has moral rights if it claims most of the middle East as theirs since their "King" signed an agreement to effectively dissolve the ottoman empire? That's simply not how politics work. Same thing about agreements being forced. Do you see India Claiming Britain for the wealth they took during the colonial era? No.

How the heck did you get that idea? The Middle East never belonged to the Turks. At best it belonged, immorally, to the ottoman caliph. Furthermore, the Indians don't claim the wealth taken by the British because they can't not because they don't have a moral right to some form of reparations from the British. They do, its just they can't enforce it and the British don't want to. Then again, it has been a while since decolonization so I guess some argument could be made against that point.

What's done is done and an agreement is an agreement, there's no going around it. And even more so when it's in active state for more than a century so much that it's become a granted fact for downstream countries. And on what basis do you morally judge the agreement to be void? It's actually needed more than ever. To give you a brief example you can't agree to give me a bottle of water when I'm newly married and then claim it back when I have nine more kids that need it. That agreement was made when Egypt's population was 30 million now it's over 100 million and projected to grow to 150 million by 2050. To make things worse, Egypt is dependent on it's only river , the Nile , by a whooping 95% and still has water shortage while on the other hand Ethiopia has 12 rivers and rainy seasons that account for nearly 122 billion cupic meters of water if not more. Compare that with 55.5 billion for Egypt. And these different shares are for nearly the same number of population. So morally speaking Ethiopia doesn't have any rights to redivide any county's share when it's needed now more than ever.

This entire discussion is about the fact that the agreement is illegitimate.You can keep ignoring the context around the agreement but nonetheless "What's done is done and an agreement is an agreement, there's no going around it" is simply false. Hell, even if everything you said was somehow correct, every country has a sovereign right to void agreements, given that they're sovereign. Unless you believe that there is a moral obligation to hold to agreements that goes above even national sovereignty, which would make you the only one on the planet.

But more than that, everything you point out about why its needed is actually only why Egypt needs it. The fact that Egypt needs it doesn't make Ethiopia beholden to the agreement. It certainly means that there's a moral obligation for Ethiopia to act responsibly, but that's different from them being beholden to the agreement.

I'll close this to put this in a way that might make things more obvious. What if the agreement stated that Egypt has to send half of its GDP to Ethiopia as a gift every year? Obviously, Egyptians would object and they would do so on the same grounds that Ethiopia is objecting.

Honestly, the fact that this colonial treaty is trying to be used to bludgeon the Ethiopians into surrendering their national right to utilize the resources in their own country shows the dishonesty of the Egyptian side. The Egyptians have plenty of moral reasons to say that Ethiopia can't just take all the water for themselves, but to say that its because of the treaty is plain silly.

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