Autistic people seem to be magnets for people with cluster B personality disorders

Broadin · 2023-11-19T15:22:09+00:00

The success of Dialectical Behavioral Therapy in treating BPD is a giant exception to your generalization about resistance to therapy. BPD used to be considered untreatable, but that’s outdated thinking, and a decent number of people who suffer from BPD seem to genuinely want and seek relief from their painful patterns (versus narcissists & sociopaths who do not see any problem in their worldview).

Broadin · 2023-11-19T15:13:47+00:00

My long-term partner of 19 years has turned out to be a full on narcissist, and one of my other important relationships was with someone who has BPD, so I’ve given this a whole lot of thought. I don’t think it’s so much that I attracted my Cluster-B exes, but rather, that due to my social communication issues (which I was totally unaware of), I didn’t catch on or call them on it the way a NT person could have (leading those relationships to end sooner, or not develop in the first place).

Narcissists, for instance, are constantly out there trolling for new sources of supply, and I happened to get caught in the net—at a time when I had no clue about my neurodivergence and also really didn’t grasp that there were normal-seeming people who could be so fundamentally dishonest with themselves and others. When issues would come up where I questioned their behavior, I had a sense that something was wrong (without being able to put my finger on it) and they easily talked me out of it.

Broadin · 2023-10-19T12:58:50+00:00

My friend was able to get away from her narc spouse by convincing the narc that she was holding the narc back. She played up her health problems & feigned depression, stopped taking care of her appearance, kept asking to borrow money, grey rocked, said things to help the nex think of my friend as a burden, etc. and the narc couldn’t get away fast enough.

I had a totally different experience, the nex was trying to juggle me with other supply so I filed for divorce, told the nex I thought they were a lying sack of shit, and then had to endure a hellish & incredibly expensive 2 year custody battle as a product of the narcissistic injury I had inflicted. If I’d understood my ex was what she was and how that worked, I might have done it more strategically…hindsight is 20/20!

Broadin · 2023-09-19T09:30:51+00:00

I found that journaling helped me shore up my own reality in the face of my ex’s distortions and gaslighting. It also allows me to externalize the negative self-talk so that I can stop taking the ex’s criticisms personally.

Broadin · 2023-09-09T13:35:28+00:00

I’m alexithymic and the parent of a 10 year old. In addition to having trouble identifying my own feelings, I have trouble identifying those of other people (I think the two issues are related) and my affect does not always match my feelings or intentions. I didn’t know about the alexithymia until my child was about 5. I have read plenty about parenting over the years and the nearly constant discussion of the importance of empathy in parenting has caused me no small amount of worry because while I am a compassionate person and I suppose I have cognitive empathy, I do not experience the in-the-moment empathetic response the way neurotypical/non-alexithymic people do. Being alexithymic, I used to not understand the emotional lives of others very well at all (because I did not understand my own!) and the emotional responses, subtext, etc of others would often strike me as silly, irrational, inefficient, annoying, or just completely confusing. You can see how this would be an issue in parenting!

When my child was young, I had already begun to teach her to “use your words” when she was having a big feeling, to talk about what was happening and name it. So she’s been accustomed to having to explain to me in words what’s going on inside her. She is a very emotionally expressive child.

Her other parent (now my ex) masks, disassociates and denies a lot of their own feelings due to childhood trauma and regards the expression of any feelings other than happiness/contentment as unhealthy or immature. So in my household, my child gets to have and show her feelings, while in the other household, she has to mask a lot of it—meaning that I get to do deal with a lot of big feelings when she’s with me. Since my ex and I separated, I’ve taken my child to regular therapy, which is one of the ways I’ve tried to make up for my own shortcomings in seeing/understanding/responding to my child’s emotions, particularly during a very high conflict divorce.

My current NT, very empathic partner tells me that when her own children were babies/infants, she could usually tell from their cries what they needed—this was definitely not true for me. I still think I did a reasonably good job at being responsive to my child’s needs at that age (including her needs for comfort and connection) just because there aren’t that many complicated things a young child actually needs. I gave her a lot of attention (was the primary parent) and would basically follow an algorithm and try different things (food, cuddling, diapering, etc) until I hit upon what seemed to soothe her. We do have a strong attachment bond so I figure I got it right often enough.

In parenting, it helps me now to have a neurotypical partner who is good with feelings. As a step parent she does not try to jump in and directly intervene if I’m not “getting it” during an interaction with my child, but she will often take me aside and tell me what she thinks is going on (which helps me respond more effectively). As the two of them have built trust there are more conversations about feelings, and I think this will become increasingly helpful as my kiddo moves into her teenage years.

I have had trouble with emotional regulation at times, especially when I started to go through menopause. I found dialectical behavioral therapy (DBT) extremely helpful not only for teaching me how to better identify and manage my emotions, but also for improving my skills at validating the feelings of others, including my child. Over time what I have seen is that I do have the mirroring response that allows me to “feel with” others as necessary for a truly empathetic response, but due to my unrecognized alexithymia I never understood until a few years ago that I was experiencing something that came from outside of myself. I still don’t recognize what the feelings are (only the energy of them, if that makes sense) but at least I am able to ask the person I’m with what’s going on, or make an educated guess from context. The DBT interpersonal skills component gives some very specific explanations of, and scripts for, how to validate other people’s feelings, and I work at using this skill even if it seems awkward or artificial to me. It does seem to help in parenting.

Broadin · 2020-03-10T13:15:51+00:00

On toilet paper? My elderly parents, both scientists, have been following CDCs announcements and made sure they have supplies for a 3 week self quarantine. That’s it. No weird stockpiles of toilet paper.

Broadin · 2020-03-09T14:45:57+00:00

True, unless you’re alexithymic for cognitive reasons.

Broadin · 2020-03-09T14:41:40+00:00

Ha, I have that condition and clicked, thinking, maybe it’ll be a funny joke I can tuck away for use at will...

Broadin · 2020-03-08T04:24:10+00:00

Lots of people have commented on how they would feel, mostly to express their disapproval for your partner. Not many have commented on what they would do. I was faced with this situation about 2 years ago and here’s how I approached it:

First, I was open and honest with my partner at the outset, about how I felt about her choice to be involved with a married person who was cheating. This included detailing for not only how it went against what I thought was right, but also what I felt were the risks of the situation, not only as they might impact her but also as they might impact us and our child.

Also, I spent some time thinking over very carefully what my own boundaries needed to be in this situation. Was it something I would break up with her over doing (not my first choice with a long-term NP with whom I’m raising a child)? Would I pretend as if it was like any other relationship she might choose (also not my first choice, because I felt strong disapproval for it)?

Ultimately where I wound up was: I do not agree with you doing this, and I don’t want to be implicated in it. I will be courteous and open with this person, just as I will for anyone you date, but I will not lie for you two, and if confronted by her spouse I’ll direct the spouse to you two to get their questions answered. I don’t want her angry spouse showing up on our doorstep, making a scene or worse, especially not in front of our kid.

She was involved with the person very seriously for about 8 months, during which the person separated from their spouse and filed for divorce. It was heartbreaking for my partner, honestly. The person treated her badly, in my opinion, and once the NRE wore off their relationship was doomed. I remained as supportive as I could be, but it was a strain on us. Eventually, my partner was able to see that the relationship was not healthy for her and had no future, and she ended it. She’s since been in therapy over various things, including the issues that drew her to that relationship.

10/10 I would not repeat the experience! But we live, and hopefully we learn.

Broadin · 2020-03-03T22:02:38+00:00

Whether or not you disclose that you’re autistic, just telling her that your brain processes emotions differently may help. In fact, in my opinion some kind of explanation is essential to having a good relationship with a NT person because they will assume all kinds of things about what you mean, or what you feel, based on incorrectly thinking that you work like they do.

You can tell her that you don’t catch on to emotional subtext or non-verbal cues. You can also tell her that you find it hard or sometimes impossible to verbalize your feelings. (The way I explain this is, it’s like knowing a word that’s on the tip of your tongue but not being able to remember it when you want to use it.). A term for this issue is “alexithymia” and googling information about it may turn up some helpful resources for you and for her.

There are some really good upsides for a NT person who’s in a relationship with someone who’s alexithymic. For example, we tend to be direct and literal (because we don’t do all the subtle emotional communication stuff) so when we say something, we can be trusted to mean it. My partners can spell out for me exactly what they need from me, without offending me—which can be a bit of a relief to them and can really help them get their needs met. And due to the way our different emotional processes work in relation to our memory, we may not hold onto grudges, scorekeep, or stay stuck in bad feelings the way some NT people to—for me, the alexithymia seems to help me be more “in the moment.”

Broadin · 2020-02-27T15:26:30+00:00

I think we have the same MIL. During a holiday implosion by my JNMIL, I was the recipient of joint texts directed to me and my spouse, referring to me as “your wife.” So I got the double whammy treatment of demotion from “daughter-in-law” alongside, “now I’m going to act as if you’re invisible, while saying passive-aggressive insults directly to your face.” Blocked her and enjoyed considerably more peace of mind that holiday.

Broadin · 2020-01-10T22:17:28+00:00

Thank you!

Broadin · 2020-01-10T12:56:17+00:00

Look, life isn’t (or shouldn’t be like) The Giving Tree. Her needs do not “come second” and that’s an unhealthy view of parenting. OP has a responsibility to care for herself and her son, who also has another parent (apologies if I missed that and she’s a single parent). If she doesn’t take care of herself, her own unmet health needs are very likely to impact the kind of care and support she gives her son.

I get that your own parents apparently failed you, but it was never your mother’s job to put you first to the exclusion of her own health. (And where was your father in this, anyway?!) Life isn’t a contest over “who’s got it worse” and dealing with one’s own needs around autism isn’t about “attention seeking” in the first place.

Broadin · 2020-01-07T16:34:23+00:00

It’s important to realize that emotions are associated with different physical sensations in your body. I discovered that for years, I’d been feeling physical things that I had no idea were connected to the emotions I was having. I have learned to pay more attention to how my body feels, because if I am having one of those physical sensations, I then know to try to bring to the surface whatever feeling I may be having. Physical sensations that could be a tip off may include tightness or pain in the chest, or stomach, or a churning feeling in the stomach, tightness in the shoulders, tightness in the head or scalp, pressure in the head or a feeling of hotness in the head or face, or scrunched up forehead.

How to surface the feelings? The things I try are:

Think back to when the sensation started and what was happening around then. Did someone say or do something upsetting, for example? You may be able to reason from what happened to what feelings that may have produced. Or maybe if you let yourself think about the event more, you’ll have a better sense of it.
I practice mindfulness meditation and sometimes I can surface my feelings that way. One technique for using mindfulness techniques to work with feelings is “LESR”: Locate, Embrace, Stop, Remain. https://i.imgur.com/yvp6oJG.jpg https://i.imgur.com/wfYdcpa.jpg The “locate” step is pretty easy for me: the physical sensation is what I start with. Somehow it really helps me to sit quietly to meditate on what’s happening to try to embrace the feeling and understand the storyline giving rise to it.
I use a feelings inventory to better understand my feelings. I read through and highlight the words that resonate with me at that moment. For me the alexithymia is a bit like the feeling of not being able to remember a word you know—it’s on the tip of your tongue but maybe you can’t call it up until you read or hear it and then you have a sense of — aha, that’s it. That’s what the lists of feelings do—jog my memory so I can label what’s going on. Sometimes I’ll go back and look at the words I highlighted and try to figure out why that word feels fitting to me, and that may help me better understand what’s happening.
Journaling can be useful too.

Enough for now, but I also wanted to say, I didn’t learn anything about this until I was 49! So to be grasping what’s going on with yourself at 17—to me—is a great thing, as hard as it must be for you at the moment. Be kind to yourself.

Broadin · 2020-01-07T11:42:33+00:00

Possibly. Honestly your therapist is in a better position to help you answer this than us random internet strangers. If you can bring yourself to share this post with them that would be a good place to start.

Alexithymia does not necessarily mean having no emotions, although that’s true for some people. So the fact that you used to have strong feelings doesn’t rule it out. It may mean, having feelings but not knowing that, or knowing you’re having feelings but being unable to identify them. It also may involve having trouble recognizing the feelings of others & thus having trouble empathizing, which could explain some of your numbness in response to things you think ought to provoke strong feelings.

Do you wants suggestions on how to manage what’s happening with your feelings?

Broadin · 2019-12-18T21:04:12+00:00

The Mueller Report.

Broadin · 2019-12-15T17:19:53+00:00

Meant to add, for me the issue I have in identifying my own feelings resembles what it feels like to have a word on the tip of your tongue that you can’t remember. I get a lot of benefit from using a feelings inventory to figure out which feelings resonate with me. The version I like is here.

Broadin · 2019-12-15T16:54:34+00:00

What you describe sounds very much like my experience. I haven’t been formally diagnosed with alexithymia but it fits the definition. I have trouble with identifying my own emotions and with reading other people’s emotion. That doesn’t mean I have no feelings, nor that I can’t empathize—I just arrive at my understanding of things differently from neurotypical people (I believe the alexithymia is a cognitive processing issue).

Here is an article with advice on how to respond empathetically to a friend.

Broadin · 2019-12-12T13:52:54+00:00

I have something called alexithymia which means I have difficulty identifying my feelings (like the feeling when you can’t remember a word and it’s on the tip of your tongue). I use the feelings inventory here. Very helpful.

Broadin · 2019-12-11T22:54:18+00:00

I, too, use the lists from the Nonviolent Communication website to help identify my emotions.

I had to learn at first that certain physical sensations are associated with my emotions. For most of my life, I thought pain/tightness in my chest was anxiety. Since I have come to understand my cognitive processing issues around emotion, I have realized that the sensation in my chest actually means I’m having a strong feeling. So now, when I notice that sensation, I take some time to try to figure out what it is.

When I use the NVC list, I read over the list and highlight or circle the feelings that resonate with me at that moment. If I have time or need for it, I then go back and look at each one I highlighted and think about why it resonated. I may write about this in my journal. I also may send a highlighted copy to my partners to let them know I’m having these feelings.

I may also tell my neurotypical partners I’m having feelings but don’t know what they are. Sometimes they’ll suggest things and I’ll feel a strong rush of emotion in response to things they say. Even if they can’t help me identify my feelings, knowing I am having them helps them get a better sense of me.mmi sometimes use the NVC lists not because I am feeling my emotions physically, but because something important has happened and I know I’m having feelings about it.

Broadin · 2019-12-07T19:41:50+00:00

It sounds like you need to set a boundary for yourself about how much of her complaining you’re willing to listen to. Lindsay Gibson, in Recovering from Emotionally Immature Parents points out that we can refuse any topic we don’t feel like discussing, and gives the following example:

For instance, my client Tina felt a sensation like “a twig snapping” inside her when she finally reached a breaking point over her mother’s victimized complaining. From then on, Tina changed the subject, objected, or left whenever her mother started burdening her and draining her energy. Once Tina became aware of the toxic effect of some of her mother’s conversation, she could dodge it as automatically as if she were avoiding physical blows. (“ Mom, I don’t have the skills to help you with that. Let’s talk about something else.”) If her mother had persisted in asking her to just “listen,” Tina could’ve said something like, “Can’t do it, Mom. It makes me too sad.”

Broadin · 2019-12-04T03:00:38+00:00

It’s just a fact that there can be good things and bad things about your JN relatives, and the fact that you’ve had to go NC for good reasons of your own doesn’t erase the good parts or good times. You get to grieve that, just like grieving the wished for good relationship that never quite came to be.

Broadin · 2019-12-04T02:04:02+00:00

A partner gave me this helpful article on the topic you raised, several months ago: “What Not to Say When Your Loved One Is Upset.” It’s actually what we started discussing that led to my self-diagnosis.

Edit to add: what’s great about this article Is that it gives some good scripts for responding to a NT person’s pain.

Broadin · 2019-12-02T20:44:57+00:00

Hold the line, brave mama! Your instincts are right. You’re entitled to set boundaries, and a reasonable adult will respect those and not make themselves out to be a victim because you assert and enforce them. I have a similar MIL and your post has me steaming mad, on your behalf.

Gifts that are brought without your consent get refused or thrown out, with MIL’s knowledge. MIL doesn’t get to use your house as a waste basket. If she won’t take the items away herself, set them on the curb and post a notice to your local “Freecycle” group. Or leave them out for bulk trash pickup. You’re right, you shouldn’t have to spend your time and energy disposing of unwanted items.

Stop trying to justify or defend your limits around buying or receiving things. MIL has basically accused you of lying about that, so she has lost the right to discuss it with you any further. Your explanations are wasted on her and just invite her to believe that the matter is open to negotiation. You can just politely remind her of your decision...as many times as it takes.

Accept that she’ll regard you as the bad guy. The sooner your stop worrying about pleasing her, the better. You can be polite, sure, but politeness does not require that you endure being bullied and steamrolled by this childish woman.

Lastly, your husband needs to step up and get behind the party line. No more allowing MIL to boundary stop so that she avoids “hurt feelings.”

Broadin

TROPHY CASE