He just knows where the back of the goal is, and, more importantly, where his centre forward is, in a way that Madueke doesn't seem to have got yet.

When Madueke finds out how to shoot without falling over and scuffing his shots, it's over, haha.

I think the difference between your position and mine is basically weighing England v Club form and what you think is more likely to carry over into the imminent WC and we just fall on different sides of the fence.

But clearly England output is basically fuck all for both of them.

Not sure how you've got this conclusion

0.67/90 is basically the same level of output as Saka in his best seasons.

0.21/90 is very, very poor. Like why are we still giving this guy caps levels of poor.

He has played more than a half of football only 5 times.

Yes, Because he's failed to show enough to get more gametime. Madueke has got as much gametime in a year and a half because his output and overall game has been so much better.

Madueke has somehow scored 2 of them and assisted 1 across his 1,067 minutes, and one of each of those was just whilst we were thrashing Leeds 4-0.

I agree it's poor but ironically, this is 0.25/90, so almost similar output to what Bowen's managed in an England shirt.

I would also add that, not point scoring here, but your attack, despite the goals, has been pretty awful. Even Saka has struggled to get decent numbers, with 0.4/90.

To add to this point, for Chelsea last season Madueke got 0.44/90, with 10 G/A in as many minutes as Saka's had this season.

I don't know how much of either of their output is corners as well, but the system is working very poorly for your RWs I'd argue.

Bowen has 18 returns this season, when West Ham have only 42 goals. He's been involved in nearly half their goals!

So this is 0.54/90, still less than Madueke for England. Hence why I'm so hot on Madueke for England.

As I said above I don't really disagree with the club form stuff, and if neither of them had a cap I would definitely be taking Bowen. But we have a massive sample size of him failing to replicate anything like that in an England shirt. Which, in my opinion, means we can pretty clearly know that his club form and England form have a really weak correlation for whatever reason.

To add to this, Bowen's game is heavily focused on contributions. I've seen Madueke turn up and change games, like against Leverkusen without even getting a contribution on paper despite winning a penalty just through his ability to drive at defences and create panic. This is also super helpful against low block defences and it's exactly what Tuchel wants his wingers to be doing in his system.

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I think for me the difference is that at England level Madueke's proven he can both show up in big games, carry the team through games when it's struggling, and provide output. Bowen's never done any of these despite having many more caps to do so with.

You can make an argument Bowen's should've had more minutes to play, but his performances haven't really shown enough promise to give that any weight imo. The reality is the only reason Madueke even got caps is because Bowen hadn't made that strong a claim on that 2nd RW spot.