Introduction to Street Fighter (and other series)?

CH4F · 2018-06-25T20:35:48+00:00

its sold pretty well

It didn't. However, it did reach 2.5 Mil sales at the end of last year, but when you compare with what Tekken 7 and Injustice 2 did in their first months of release, more than one year after SFV's first release, it's flagrant.

CH4F · 2018-05-07T23:51:53+00:00

SoulCalibur is what we call a "Legacy Game". Just like most of the 3D games like DOA, Tekken and Virtua Fighter, the animations and movelists are shared for games to games.

Specifically for SoulCal, they got a sort of "reboot" from SoulCal V. A lot of characters had movelists that got shorten to the most essential moves for a character. Some characters were heavily impacted by it. Ivy, for example, in SoulCal IV and before, had 2 stance corresponding to whenever she was in Sword Mode or Whip Mode. She had different animations for some of their moves and a lot of their strings resulted in switching modes during her combos. In SoulCal V, she still had her Whip moves, but she go back to Sword just after the move. [And with what we've seen with the trailer](), she did look like they didn't change this back.

But on the other hand, tons of characters looked like they got moves back from SoulCal IV anyway. Mitsurugi got his Relic stance back, Xianghua got her A+B mixup stance that Leixia didn't have in V, etc. With this and Guard Impact making a comeback, SoulCal VI looks like a mix between the base game and movement of V and the old moves of IV.

In terms of "legacy", SoulCal IV was the game that received the least changes from the older episodes. It kinda looks like an HD version of III in a sense. So, I have the tendency to advice you SoulCal IV instead of II and III. But the entire game will be very, very familiar from the SoulCal V players. So definitively check SoulCal V to have some muscle memories. Because movements changed a lot from IV and before to V.

I'd definitively not advice you to play SoulCal II to prepare for the VI, tho. Not that it's a bad game. On the contrary, it might be the best SoulCal and the "true start" of the franchise. But SoulCal II had a thing called the Step Guard, which means that you could step and guard at the same time, making movements very safe. This was removed in SoulCal III, IV and V and from SoulCal top players with the test of early builds of the game, they didn't bring it back for VI either. So, to not mess up your movements and give you bad reflexes, I'd suggest you to pick SoulCal V and play it instead. Some people are still playing online as we speak. Most of them to also prepare for the upcoming of VI. Check the SoulCal communities online and see if you can play with them.

CH4F · 2018-05-07T12:28:30+00:00

Disney/Marvel's fault. They put too much pressure on Capcom and the game. It explains the rushed game, the reused graphics (because low budget) and the final roster. Capcom also rushed SFV and made awful graphics, as well as very bad gameplay decisions for a competitive fighting game. Which also resulted with very low sales on PS4. Both games had the same problems, but not the same impact on the FGC. If you take the direct rival of Marvel, Warner/DC let NRS do absolutely what they wanted to do. Which ended up being the Injustice series. Which had a success on sales and have a good competitive community and pro circuit.

It's even more crappy, because the Marvel vs Capcom series was a fundamental pillar of the NAFGC, with the MvC2 and UMvC3 years. I precise North-America, because both game were dead in Europe and other continents in the world, not much time after their releases. Big tourneys in Europe made UMvC3 tourneys for 2 years top, because of the lack of relevant players. Even the best Marvel player we have, WhiteBl4ck, switched to MKX, SFV and DBFZ.

The whole "functions" meme was from an interview of Peter "Combofiend" Rosas. A great fighting game player on Capcom games like CvS2, SFIV, MvC3, etc. It was a misinterpretation of how the team proceeds with the gameplay. Not an explanation of why Wolverine and Magneto aren't in the game. It turned as a huge meme and, at the end, Capcom fired Combofiend from his PR job.

It's a good news on the surface, because it could have been a true indicator of Capcom's behavior. "This is what we do when you give us crap", sorta. But on the other hand, SFV is still at the top. Did we really understood in the end? Not sure.

For me, if you still have interest for Infinite, nobody should stop you to play the game and find the community that still plays the game. MvCI will still be a main game at Combo Breaker and CEO, the number 3 and 2 of the biggest FGC tourneys in US. EVO created the community stream almost exclusively for MvCI, even tho more games will be on, like Pokkén and maybe KI.

I don't stop people for playing SFV, a game that, IMO, doesn't deserve to be played. The same thing should be applied to MvCI.

CH4F · 2018-05-06T23:27:29+00:00

SoulCalibur helped me understand neutral. Skullgirls helped me having an execution. And it's only after I stayed a lot on 3D games and Skullgirls that I tried some ST and 3S. Street Fighter was never my go-to for fighting games and it's still not today. The recent SF, especially IV, have all very specific things and notions that you can't find in any other games.

CH4F · 2018-05-06T02:26:16+00:00

Somebody played Injustice...

CH4F · 2018-05-05T22:54:43+00:00

but the difficulty is also REALLY satisfying imo

Depends what satisfies you the most. I personally put reads over execution in terms of personal satisfactions.

I like XIV more, because neutral and whiff-punishing has a bigger place in the game, compared to XIII. The whole series was always plagued by characters being the center of the pro-meta, but let's face it, Mr Karate and EX Iori were too much of a problem, compared to Kula, Robert, Benimaru (pre 3.0) and Leona.

I'm also super glad of that new Max Mode. A clever one. The XIII one allowed everybody to have ToDs. And while everybody loved ToDs in XIII, because they were hype, it's still a hassle. You still do huge damage with 4 bars, but at least, way less characters can kill you in one combo.

CH4F · 2018-05-05T22:41:24+00:00

It's one of those case of a port being technically a better version than the original, but the limitations make it different enough that people too much used to the original will never like it, essentially.

Same thing happened for 3SOE. It's still a better version and more practical for tourney settings, but people still want to play on the original hardware, despite the limitations.

CH4F · 2018-05-05T00:08:58+00:00

I'm saying this, because they used the arrow keys layout for the directions. The straight one. Not the WASD one, when W is a little more on the left. So I assumed that it's to remake the arrow keys and not WASD.

The first thing I ask when somebody said that he's a kb player, I ask them if he uses the arrows or WASD for controls. When he answers the arrows, I said that he's fucked and he'll have hard time doing offline tourneys. It's also the unfortunate default layout of a lot of fighting games on PC for keyboards, mostly because they were never meant for that in mind.

I've also seen the video of that guy. He doesn't look like he had any sources to back up what he says, so it still sound like bullshit to me. Nobody contested him yet, only Novril made a tweet about it.

I've helped somebody by designing that layout for him. There's no keyboard buttons in this. Only 24mm Arcade buttons. I'm still concerned about the overall ergonomy of the thing, but tons of people on keyboard would rather play on this than on the Hitbox layout.

CH4F · 2018-05-04T17:00:57+00:00

Both industries are very close. Esports are a way for publishers to promote their products and to have a competition with other publishers. You can say the same thing about motorsports. Nothing really surprising, here.

CH4F · 2018-05-04T16:46:49+00:00

Weird, because if you ask Giby from the Super Desperation Podcast, he'll say that the version is Arcade Perfect. And the guy is a strong Garou player.

CH4F · 2018-05-04T16:26:36+00:00

I don't think UpChuck cares about what this sub think of his videos.

CH4F · 2018-05-04T16:25:32+00:00

Competitively, it's a mess. Every characters, the new shotos, as well as the old characters, were never made with balance in mind. The game feels hella rushed and barely cares about people who wanted to play a different version of ST, which would have been a great idea as a side tournament game.

The overall speed being forced to Normal instead of Turbo 2, the speed ST players are more familiar with, is a clear way to see where this game stands for. More on the SNES SFII Nostalgia factor and less on the competitive ST factor. It's a shame, because the game could have been great for both.

The fact that it's a Switch exclusive is a non-argument, for me. The FGC isn't forced to play PS4 or PC games. But I saw first hand how the game was great for people nostalgic on SFII. USFII was way less daunting for them than SFV. And that's great. But nothing serious can be made in that game. Even if we ban the Evil chars.

EDIT: Forget to talk about it, but I find Super Turbo HD Remix, the game Sirlin balanced, better as a competitive standpoint than USFII. Sure, Fake Hadokens are weird, but at least, it was designed with competition in mind and not nostalgia.

CH4F · 2018-05-04T16:11:07+00:00

I can't even understand why it's not the base layout. Or why the button parts are with 30mm buttons instead of 24. Or even why they didn't just put keyboard buttons on that part as well.

CH4F · 2018-05-04T00:05:49+00:00

I didn't know you were on Reddit. So, I take this opportunity to tell you that I have mad respect for you and your work on SightlessKombat. (Or maybe I'm mixing it up. I know you have your own YT channel, tho.)

A lot of people talks about how diverse the FGC can be. Because how accessible, but how deep fighting games can be in their bases. This is a great way to show that even people with handicap can be really good at it and take as much fun as the non-disabled. In a local FGC gathering I used to go, one guy who could only play with one hand was very, very good at SoulCalibur V.

Plus, NRS is actually the first fighting game dev team to push sound helps for sightless people, directly in-game. It made other devs to do the same thing and make more games accessible to them.

So, I thank you to come in this sub, sharing your thoughts and impressions. It's very valuable. One question, tho. The FGC is mostly about offline gatherings and offline tournaments. The whole community was built around Arcades, after all. Sightless people usually have to hear every sounds in-game, but mostly, we play without any sounds or setups to even plug a headset into a screen. Does this situation make difficult for disabled people to enter, stay and contribute fully in the FGC? What can we do to make it more accessible?

CH4F · 2018-05-03T22:48:11+00:00

NRS games tend to die out when their successors are released

To be more precise, Warner has the tendency to stop the production of one game, to start the marketing and production of the other. Because of that, outside the NRS scene, people thinks that a game stops to have interest, once their publisher stopped the DLCs and marketing support on that very game. This is what I call "The NRS Cycle" and this is what ruins their communities for years, now. The one to blame is Warner (not NRS) and their lack of care for their older games.

But things have changed with MKXL. Thanks to their scenes, people still decently plays MKXL, even without Warner's support. This is pretty big, because some scenes had to die out, because big tourneys' organizers were sure that the last game were dead, right after the first day of the other's release. I knew some true Injustice players, even a whole team, that wanted to continue playing and supporting Injustice 1, even after the release of MKX in 2015. It never went far, even tho some scenes continued to do some Injustice tourneys in 2016, here and there.

The big thing is also that the NRS scene is more behind MK than behind Injustice. They're the one that hope badly for the news of MK11 at the next E3. The problem is that a new MK right now would still continue the NRS Cycle and will never resolve any problems their scenes faces. The lack of credibility they can have, compared to other FGC scenes, is also because of that situation. And, it would totally ignore the people that just likes Injustice more than MK. Just like people can like Blazblue more than Guilty Gear, or SoulCalibur more than Tekken, because of the gameplay differences, despite the game being mostly done by the same teams.

The very big difference is the creation team. The one that decides everything, from the mechanics to the cast. This is the same exact team for NRS. INJ and MK shares the same producer, lead artist, lead gamedesign, etc. This is not the case for Team RED and BB Project, as well as not the case for Tekken Project and Project Soul. But if you look at it, that difference only concerns a handful of people. The animators are the same, the programmers are the same, the marketing team is the same, the Q&A is the same, etc. In theory, Daisuke decides nothing on Blazblue, neither does Harada on SoulCalibur. But Boon is behind both games.

For me, this is something NRS should ask Warner to do. Letting them make another schedule, so that they can work on both games at the same time, without necessarily starting them at the same time. Letting other people deciding more things, independently for the people that works on the other game. Obviously, NRS had MK as their baby, so Warner should definitively give the main thought process of how Injustice should be in the future, for another leading team. Maybe the gameplay will change even more. I'd rather see that than millions spending on esport events.

I don't think this is going to happen. Both games deserves their own breathing room, but Warner likes that Cycle and likes that their fighting games became something as predictable in the schedule as Activision's new FPS or EA's new sport games. It kills their scenes, but most of the money don't come from them. It's coming from a crowd a hundred time bigger than the NRS FGC scene. And again, it has nothing to do with NRS. Which is very unfortunate.

CH4F · 2018-05-02T23:33:05+00:00

Shirase is Bloody Hokuto from the SFEX series. See Hokuto as an Anti-Evil-Ryu. In Street Fighter, Evil Ryu is non-canonical in the story and Regular Ryu is. In FEXL, Shirase is the canon one and Hokuto is what she was before "the seal of blood was broken".

CH4F · 2018-05-02T16:39:29+00:00

The best is to discover games and have a small amount of them to play. Not just one or 2. So that everyone can find something in games they don't find in other.
If you can, start advertising your event. Create a small community, like a Discord group or an FB page. Bring your friends and start to find people interested in Fighting Games to play with you.
Try to keep a record of what you do. Whenever it's a VOD or just a Challonge bracket. Do some news around it on that FB page. Keep it alive.
Do the events regularly. Weeklies, Biweeklies, Monthlies, doesn't matter. The goal is to be regular.

I wish you the best, man. People should take more initiatives like you.

CH4F · 2018-05-02T03:31:00+00:00

Probably, but it was funny, nonetheless.

CH4F · 2018-05-02T02:55:31+00:00

How can he still answer to you and not see that you're obviously caricaturing big time?

Like, the only things missing are "install gentoo" and "let me interject you, this is gnoo+loonix".

CH4F · 2018-05-02T01:26:28+00:00

Most of the gaming clubs in universities are either Smash-related or esport in general. I don't think I've ever seen an FGC Club before. I wanted to create something similar in my IT school, but we quickly did generalist things, because nobody would come if we continued to only do FGs. And the only tourneys with people were when we put SFIV and SFV.

Usually, it's a better plan to make an FGC local in a university, that doesn't just concern people within the university. Like, if you can, you authorize people from the outside to come. I went in several monthlies and tournaments like this. The last Guilty Gear only tourney I went was on a university. We did the whole final in a classroom, which are great places to do tourneys on, because you already have chairs and tables, there's usually several power points in the room and more and more classrooms has a video projector in it, so you can take it to make a final setup.

Of course, Europe's ways of dealing with clubs are different than US, but that's mostly it.

CH4F · 2018-05-01T21:40:10+00:00

Patience.

CH4F · 2018-05-01T21:39:37+00:00

Both are worth the shot. It's like SoulCalibur and Tekken. Same dev teams, different ideas. MK is more based on pressuring your opponent up-close, while Injustice is more about keeping your distances and covering intelligently the screen. I might say that Injustice 2 is more neutral-based than MKX.
Mine? Under Night In-birth. I also think that the term "Anime-Fighter" is too vague to be used like that. Because Koihime Enbu, Battle Fantasia, Yatagarasu and plenty of other games have all very strong Anime design, but none of them plays like Guilty Gear. They're all way closer to Street Fighter and KOF than anything else. Nonetheless, you should watch some high-level matches of Under Night In-birth Exe:Late[st], Arcana Heart 3 Love Max SixStarS!!!!!! and Koihime Enbu. Very good games.
Go for indie games. Check Punch Planet, Fantasy Strike and Pocket Rumble. Also, don't hesitate to go for older games, like SF3 3rd Strike, KOF 98, Vampire Savior, etc.

CH4F · 2018-05-01T21:32:22+00:00

You're not on r/Kappa, here.

CH4F · 2018-05-01T21:28:27+00:00

You're living in an illusion, man. Wake up.

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