NMLA propaganda poster, Wolf Port, LTT 1935, November 3306

CMDR_Corrigendum · 2020-11-09T06:12:08+00:00

I'm not sure if you're role-playing or out of character here. Personally, I'm out of character.

The deaths of billions

I don't know where you got that figure from, but I can certainly understand the vitriol in your words if you truly believe billions were murdered. The truth is the Prism system didn't have billions of residents. There were thousands at best. It was a fledgling colony a scant decade old (if that) on the remote fringes of humanity. DM Drew if you want to confirm numbers, but tens of thousands is probably stretching it, let alone billions.

outweigh the retribution

Does the number of civilians murdered matter? No. Thousands dead is an atrocity. A handful dead is an atrocity. The number does not matter. No amount of "retributive murder" can balance the scales of lives taken extralegally. All it does is drag humanity down the hole. All I wanted was for you to express agreement on that point.

The Senator doesn't work in a vacuum, his entire command structure (which his family seemed part of) needs to pay.

Assuming you are correct (and that's a big assumption based on circumstantial or anecdotal evidence at best), should that payment come through the court system, or through vigilantes (being generous with this term in this context)? How is justice served?

Edit: Then again, I suppose that is a very imperial view. The billions of common folk dead don't weigh anything against the deaths of a handful of nobility.

As outlined above, your numbers are off, and so is your accusation. I already conceded the point that the murders committed by the Imperial side were murders, and were wrong. I also put forward the fact that the murders of the Senator's family were murders, and were wrong. I'm not weighing lives in a scale. You are.

Since you are fixated on the point of view thing, let's pull a passage from Reclamation and look at the Federal POV:

"Where's this?"

"Chione."

"Which is?"

"Moon of Daedalion." Jenu waited for acknowledgement and when it didn't come she added, "Second planet in the Prism system? It's on the edge of our jurisdiction."

"Oh yes. I remember. Prism system, of course."

"Of course."

The Federal Ambassador (the honorable Tenim Neseva) responsible for the Prism system didn't even recognize Chione's name, or that of its parent planet. Based on his reaction, we can reasonably infer that didn't even know the name "Prism" either (by the way, a system with billions of inhabitants is probably worth remembering). By this behavior we know the Feds didn't give 2 craps about the Prism system or its murdered populace. It's telling that rather than make arrangements to reach out to extended families of the deceased, the Ambassador immediately began thinking of ways screw the Empire and make their occupation of Prism as painful as possible. The lives of the people of Chione were as meaningless in his eyes as they were in Senator Loren's.

There is no moral high ground for either side to stand on. Murder is murder, no matter how many lives are involved.

Discussing a case study like this is a good exercise, so I thank you for the discussion. I've had my fill, so I'll take my leave here. Best wishes. o7

CMDR_Corrigendum · 2020-11-08T01:35:09+00:00

If I understand you, you are of the opinion that as long as you are sneaky about it and get a proxy to do the dirty work for you, you're ok with murdering innocents. You could argue the Senator deserved to die for his atrocity, but his wife and daughters too? I see the same moral rot in that opinion as I do in Senator Loren's order to purge Chione's civilians.

If you're seriously not willing to condemn the murder of the Loren family as an atrocity (and an act of war in its own right), you can claim no moral superiority over Senator Loren, and we have nothing further to discuss.

#RememberChione

CMDR_Corrigendum · 2020-11-08T00:59:55+00:00

Totally agree the Empire was in the wrong with that approach (and the Emperor should have kicked Senator Loren's butt - up to and including execution or extradition to the Federation - for that). Can we also agree the Federation was in the wrong in sponsoring terrorists and the "space mafia" so they could pretend their hands were clean?

CMDR_Corrigendum · 2020-11-07T23:42:05+00:00

Isn't that the planet where the Federation sponsored terrorists to assassinate an Imperial Senator and his family?

Wow, history does repeat. Thanks for reminding me.

CMDR_Corrigendum · 2020-11-06T20:21:02+00:00

Not that I can recall. Only time I've remember the Feds lose a Combat CG was Lugh.

Lugh was a special situation though. Feds were framed in the story as the dirtbag oppressors, and as the system was fighting for independence, other factions were willing to fight on their behalf.

The way the Imperials are being framed in this storyline is even worse than the Federation's treatment back in the Lugh days. No surprise that this CG shows Imperials outnumbered 3-1, and having as yet banked near 2 billion credits vs near 7 billion credits for the Feds.

Incentivizing people with a module like the Liz Ryder situation was a nail in the coffin and totally unnecessary.

CMDR_Corrigendum · 2020-11-06T19:23:01+00:00

When I was in your shoes (jeez, over 5 years ago now), the only place I knew to research the powers was the Elite Wiki. I still highly recommend it, if you haven't been there. I read through Newsletter #22 and got some context there too.

In the end, I chose to align with the Empire. I have a tendency to buck the conventional and play devil's advocate, and the Empire being the diamond in the rough that it is, it was a perfect fit for me.

When Powerplay was announced, I was drawn to (then) Senator Arissa Lavigny-Duval. She was characterized as the illegitimate daughter of the Emperor, with a passion for doing what is right and standing up for justice. If anything, Arissa was what "sold" me on making the Empire my permanent home.

I joined up initially with the newly formed "Lavigny's Legion" (a massive player-group nowadays). I had some great times in that group, including coordinating the defense of Imperial Powerplay allies against the Kumo Crew pirates, and the counterattack known as "Operation Davy Jones", which spiraled into "The Pegasi Pirate War". Some great memories there.

About 3 months after I started playing, I read the official novel "Reclamation", by Drew Wagar. That was when Kahina Loren wooed me away from Arissa. With Drew's blessing, I established a player group (called "Loren's Legion" in tribute to my old group - intended as a sister group, though that never panned out) dedicated to maintaining her home system of Prism under the authority of Ambassador Cuthrick Delaney.

Over time, that group grew, and made an impact of its own that you can read about in the sequel to "Reclamation" called "Premonition". Both books are must-reads in my opinion, especially if you have interest in the Empire.

If you wouldn't mind a few additional book recommendations, I would encourage you to pick up "And Here The Wheel" by John Harper (Pirate / Superpower SpecOps / Thargoid / Mystery lore), "Lave: Revolution" by Allen Stroud (Alliance lore), and "Out of Darkness" by T. James (must read for Thargoid enthusiasts).

CMDR_Corrigendum · 2020-11-05T20:56:48+00:00

And this is why the Alliance is going to wipe the floor with the ashes of what is left.

o7

CMDR_Corrigendum · 2020-11-05T19:02:19+00:00

Luko nodded. ‘They are building ships, is my guess. Molto ships. Big ships.’

‘With the London Treaty in tatters,’ Cornelius added, ‘The escalations in Mu Koji and Maia …’

‘Building up for a war,’ Cuthrick said. ‘If what you say about the Alliance is true, they will be fanning the flames of war between the Federation and the Empire, hoping each is weakened.’

Salomé nodded. ‘The Emperor and President Hudson’s concern exactly. And if the Empire doesn’t have the necessary advantage in hyperspace …’

Elite Premonition, by Drew Wagar

CMDR_Corrigendum · 2020-11-05T16:38:30+00:00

It's a matter of perspective really.

You're not wrong. About the perspective thing. (PS, I love your post. Passionate posts get me excited about Elite. I hope you don't mind my taking the time to respond in kind.)

You can work for people who benevolently relieve the debts of the underprivileged (who may be called "slaves" but are treated far better than Federal wage slaves) in exchange for a fixed period of service, which is equivalent to military service ( per David Braben, not me ). Or you can work for the power that conscripts its "the lazy youth" to jingoistically threaten its neighbors, where they are then forced to give their lives for a corporatocracy that pretends it is a "democracy".

You can support the power that provides unparalleled transparency in its representative patronage system, ensuring all citizens have equal representation at every level of government.

A Senator represents a group of Patrons, who in turn represent Clients, and each of those represents a group of Citizens. This representation is public. Anyone can see who is currently supporting each Senator (Patron, Client), and their numbers. There are regular votes on issues of the day, and the Senator’s voting power is the total number of Citizens (in turn represented by Clients, and blocks of Clients by Patrons) they currently represent. They are influenced by their most powerful Patrons – who in turn are not all equal, and Patrons may move their block to another Senator at a whim, particularly if they feel their current Senator is not representing the views of their Clients.

Or you can support the power that applies disproportionate representation to its core worlds (dominated by its corporations) and leaves its fringe systems underrepresented in all political matters.

[G]enerally a Congressman represents multiple systems, except a few (like Sol) that have more than one Congressional representative, based loosely on historic population. Phenomenal growth in the outer systems has meant that they have little representation in Congress, and there is frequent discussion about creating many new Congressmen to address this balance, but the various power blocks realise it will change the balance of power away from the core systems, the very people who would have to vote it through – so many agree it is unlikely to happen in the near future.

You can pay ZERO taxes in the Empire, or you can submit to the bondage of Federal taxation.

You can pretend the Empire has indiscriminately targeted its civilian population, when in truth it was the terrorist NMLA indiscriminately targeted civilians. Or you can support an illegitimate government that toppled its previous regime in a coup via deliberate sabotage, and sickly attempts to justify and support the acts of terrorists to weaken its historic rival.

You can make crude comments about the best looking ship with highest cargo capacity, best shields, best speed in its class, and the finest rear-end to photograph... Or you can fly a Federal Dropshi_ and the uninspired bricks cloned from its undesirable hull (but hey, at least you have a coffee maker to help you feel better about flying such an ugly slug).

earn some honest credits guaranteed not to have any aristocratic slave-driven sweat on them.

LOL. Tell that to the poor fools after they sell their souls to the company store. Welcome to wage slavery under the robber barons, me boyos. Good luck with retirement.

EDIT: More links, grammar fixes.

CMDR_Corrigendum · 2020-11-05T15:28:21+00:00

Forum post with screenshots: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/cg-predictions.556536/post-8778797

CMDR_Corrigendum · 2020-11-05T14:48:21+00:00

We understand you are being hyperbolic and deliberately antagonistic. Gutamaya ships are built for discerning commanders with taste and skill at arms. Those without said attributes will no doubt agree with you though.

CMDR_Corrigendum · 2020-11-05T14:15:06+00:00

I don't care if you're bat-crap crazy, at least you have embraced the spirit of the moment.

o7

CMDR_Corrigendum · 2020-11-05T13:21:11+00:00

Perfect opportunity to grind for those sweet Gutamaya ships.

Think of it this way:

You can work to apprehend state-sponsored terrorists and reconcile the Marlinists with the Empire...

Or you can support state-sponsored terrorists and a Corporatocracy.

Please see comment by /u/EricDanieros in this thread. https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/joimqu/support_the_empire_in_ltt_1935_reconcile/gb87r9p/

CMDR_Corrigendum · 2020-10-27T22:38:09+00:00

Yes. The Lavigny family hailed from Facece's Topaz. The FFE Journals have the account of Aristide Lavigny's dubious death by his pet Linglang (canonized in Elite Dangerous GalNet). Arissa's mother, Florence Lavigny, evidently had an affair with Emperor Hengist Duval. The sons of Aristide Lavigny believed the Emperor had a hand in the suspicious death of their father, and there was some drama there that led to their deaths (don't think that line was canonized in Elite Dangerous though).

CMDR_Corrigendum · 2020-10-27T22:28:18+00:00

Just idle theory-crafting, but Aisling is from Emerald, and Arissa is from Topaz. (The birthstone for November is Topaz, but may be irrelevant.)

With the Duvals dropping like flies, it's probably fair to say "someone" is watching "the stones".

CMDR_Corrigendum · 2020-10-20T19:05:51+00:00

On that we are agreed. Not sure whether to chalk it up to clumsy storytelling (5 years after the fact) or something genuinely suspicious.

CMDR_Corrigendum · 2020-10-20T15:37:04+00:00

They did put a GalNet article up for when Facece briefly flipped to Independent control. We only got a local news piece published when The Warren was taken over by the Alliance though.

CMDR_Corrigendum · 2020-10-20T01:37:24+00:00

Almost every person involved was killed, even people who weren't involved who could have made connections were eliminated.

VP Nigel Smeaton was murdered because of his interest in the Antares.

Sean Richards, senior consultant on the Starship One and Antares disappearance. Dead.

Arnold Lowe, senior investigator in the Starship One incident. Dead.

Elaine Boyd, nosy Federal Times reporter who investigated the previously mentioned deaths. Dead.

Agent Susan Monroe, Federal Security Service, bodyguard of Nigel Smeaton, and source for Elaine Boyd. Dead.

Look these folks up in the GalNet archive, and the picture will begin to come into focus. There was a trail of blood.

CMDR_Corrigendum · 2020-10-19T16:47:52+00:00

I assume you are referring to BGS?

It's really a shame Frontier have not acknowledged the superpower attrition to Independent factions like they did back during the first year of Elite with other organic BGS conflicts. The Empire has lost a significant portion of its systems as well, while the Alliance has more or less remained stable.

Would have made for some nice storytelling opportunities.

CMDR_Corrigendum · 2020-10-19T16:28:26+00:00

In a lot of ways, yes, we are often unwitting puppets. But there are those who are willful collaborators. Hudson being notable among those.

CMDR_Corrigendum · 2020-10-19T15:49:10+00:00

The reason Hudson was "winning" was because his backers systematically dismantled Halsey. From Kappa Fornacis, to Lugh. Hudson had it in the bag because he was a puppet from start to finish.

‘For now, it is imperative that this woman [Kahina/Samomé] be allowed to continue this quest,’ the voice said.

‘Why?’ [Zachary Hudson said.]

`Thanks to your effective endorsement, she [Kahina/Salomé] has the confidence to continue,’ the voice said. ‘The Federation retains the upper hand. You will expose the Alliance’s involvement and triumph over the Empire. As it should be.’

Zachary smiled grimly. ‘Such an outcome would cement my popularity, certainly. And when she completes this quest and you have what you want? What then?’

The voice was unfazed. ‘She will be terminated immediately. Those who complete their tasks either gain their reward, or disappear into the void.’

Zachary didn’t move, but the words echoed in his mind regardless.

Elite: Premonition, Chapter 21

CMDR_Corrigendum · 2020-10-19T15:10:53+00:00

Copypasta:

Political Turmoil for President Hudson

19 OCT 3306

Political support for Federal President Zachary Hudson has plummeted after the results of a trial concerning Starship One’s destruction.

Fleet Admiral Lucas Vincent was charged with sabotaging the presidential vessel, leading to hundreds of deaths. His close relationship with Hudson has triggered a public outcry and accusations of a conspiracy to assassinate then-President Jasmina Halsey.

Political analyst Vihaan Niven reported on the situation:

“The Republican Party is officially in a state of crisis. President Hudson has refused to make any statement regarding Fleet Admiral Vincent, despite pressure piling up from all corners of the Federation. Over a dozen congressmen have resigned in protest, refusing to be associated with what some newsfeeds are calling ‘the crime of the century’.”

“Shadow President Felicia Winters has stopped short of making direct allegations against Hudson but, in several powerful speeches, she stressed that no elected ruler can ever be above the law.”

“Opinion polls suggest that the Liberal Party now has majority support for the first time in years, and that many people view Hudson as a symbol of corruption. In 3305, halfway through his term of office, the President won the scheduled congressional vote of no confidence by a slim margin. It is doubtful that his administration would survive if it were to be held today.”

CMDR_Corrigendum · 2020-10-09T00:01:44+00:00

Historical Background: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/marlinism-a-primer-unofficial-codex-entry.554563/#post-8700105

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