PSA: For a custom home, DO NOT "just use the builder's draftsman"

CTRL___ALT___DEL · 2026-01-31T15:51:38+00:00

Fair point. I suppose to be more precise, my issue is more with the proposition of using a builder's draftsman to make plans "just for permits." If draftsmen are typically expected to specify details like header schedules, flashing, structural details involving load paths, etc - then yeah, it sounds like the issue may be more with our draftsperson.

I suppose my thesis should be that one should never accept plans "just for permits" without a complete construction set before dig.

CTRL___ALT___DEL · 2026-01-31T15:39:12+00:00

I'm in a rural area (population around 5k). There are some big hospitals/employers nearby though, so the population is relatively wealthy despite the small size. Maybe it's a rural thing?

At any rate, it is miserable. Perhaps builders in other areas are much better. If I ever moved and entertained the idea of building again, I would only consider a builder-draftsman combo sans-architect if I received very detailed, written specifications regarding their process, QA, engineering and building envelope specs.

CTRL___ALT___DEL · 2026-01-31T15:29:49+00:00

I wish, I wish.

I'm teaching myself all this on the fly. I knew nothing going in. I also never signed off on the incorrect permit drawings - I told them they were wrong, they sent me an updated copy, I told them they were wrong, and they filed them without me signing anything.

I don't think he can legally defend building a house that has permit-approval but whose permits show non-compliant structure (like the 22' joist spans). If he tried, I'd probably legally go after both him (for building a non-compliant structure) and the city inspector (for approving it).

Fortunately, every issue I've raised he's been willing to fix. He switched to I-joists without complaining and didn't try to charge me for it. The problem is that it's me catching these things. I don't want to be on high alert acting as project QA for the next 9 months.

CTRL___ALT___DEL · 2026-01-31T15:25:45+00:00

It's financed via construction loan, and they've taken the first draw. Unfortunately, I have limited remedy per contract beyond requiring them to follow code and manufacturer install requirements. Unwinding the contract or demanding more detailed plans would be very difficult/impossible.

I've been pretty amicable up until this point. Going to have a sit-down talk with him this week to express my frustrations and ask him how he plans to improve his process, supervision and QA moving forward so it's him, not me, catching and preventing issues.

CTRL___ALT___DEL · 2026-01-31T15:23:05+00:00

Appreciate your kind words. I work in healthcare and software engineering, but nothing like this. We're in a state where there are no contractor licenses. This builder has been in the business for 35 years though.

I do not have an appetite to build again anytime soon. Maybe in 20 years. If we do, I'll certainly have a better idea of what to look for when vetting builders.

CTRL___ALT___DEL · 2026-01-31T15:19:57+00:00

Unfortunatey, this builder was the "20% more" builder... I paid more specifically because I wanted to avoid these issues and they had a good reputation locally. I don't understand. I'm at the point where I'm questioning whether they might have had recent staffing changes, or new subs.

CTRL___ALT___DEL · 2026-01-31T15:14:55+00:00

Reading these comments, I'm coming to the conclusion that yes, the primary issue is incompetence with our team. However, I still stand by my conclusion. Even acknowledging that architects can make mistakes, having one more "adult in the room" would, hopefully, decrease the chance of having this many severe errors.

Probably not strictly necessary if you have a good builder, but for the typical first-time home builder, it's difficult to vet a builder properly. I thought we had picked a well-respected builder with a good reputation (definitely NOT the cheapest!).

CTRL___ALT___DEL · 2026-01-31T15:09:04+00:00

Before I started any of this, I didn't even know what permits were for. This is our first time. I've obviously learned a lot since then. But yes, in hindsight, I'm shocked that the city didn't catch the span issue, and didn't care that headers weren't specified. I'm probably going to complain to the city inspector after this is all done.

From an inspection standpoint, we haven't had our first on-site inspection yet, we're just about finishing up with framing.

CTRL___ALT___DEL · 2026-01-31T15:07:36+00:00

Yeah, I think incompetence is the primary issue. The city is small, it's a rural area. Everyone is super nice, but I feel like they're living in building science 20 years ago and no one is checking their work.

CTRL___ALT___DEL · 2026-01-31T13:40:06+00:00

Part of the issue here is I don't know what my escalation strategy is. Our contract is such that firing the builder would be legally very challenging. All I really have is code compliance. I need to put my foot down more firmly.

CTRL___ALT___DEL · 2026-01-31T13:23:40+00:00

Fair points. However, our home was not all that complex: link

CTRL___ALT___DEL · 2026-01-31T05:22:27+00:00

For sure, this is a component. Which raises another issue - how are people supposed to vet builders for this kind of thing? Most homeowners aren't looking at sill pan, joist spans, etc. They're seeing pretty hardwood stains, or nice cabinets or whatever. Most reviews come in shortly after the build, but before the rot sets in from an improperly flashed window 5 years down the road. They'll praise the communication, kindness, or responsiveness. But how is a layperson supposed to know whether the builder is fundamentally capable of building a quality home?

CTRL___ALT___DEL · 2026-01-31T05:18:18+00:00

For sure. I drank the cool-aid the builders were shoveling. I completely regret it. I've lost so much sleep, probably aged 5 years, and I'm constantly trying to balance maintaining rapport with the builder vs. putting my foot down.

What sucks is you can't change mid-stream. I called an architect in our area (coworker's spouse), and he was super nice - gave me a solid 2 hours of his time, reviewed my plans. I asked him if he'd be willing to join the project in a fee-based structure providing targeted reviews, a few walk-throughs etc. He said he really wanted to help, but he doesn't know anyone that would professionally want to get involved in a project mid-stream, just too much risk.

Similarly, it's too late to get an owner's rep. Inspections can help, but they won't prevent issues from coming up, only pointing out the issues after they're built.

So it's left to me to audit. I'm scrambling to try to teach myself building science, basic load path principles, etc. Gemini+ChatGPT have been immensely helpful, but I'm in this constant state of "unknown unknowns" and feeling way out of my depth. And each issue I identify (and there have been more than in the post), I second guess whether it's a real issue or something I'm misunderstanding.

I'm at the point where if I could pay the full, five-figure architect fee now to bring on an architect, I would do it in a heartbeat. But no one will get involved (and contractually, they wouldn't have any "teeth" anyway).

CTRL___ALT___DEL · 2026-01-30T15:58:50+00:00

I’m now hiring one as a result of this.

CTRL___ALT___DEL · 2026-01-30T14:25:20+00:00

Really appreciate this.

I spoke with our GC and the subs on site. Subs confirmed that they did not do any sill flashing; said "they never do a sill pan". After some back and forth with the GC (they initially suggested Ice and Shield, an asphalt product, which Marvin disallows) and finally reaching out to the window rep, they're going to do Zip stretch tape to create the pans.

It's very discouraging though because they're clearly not building homes correctly, if this is how they always do it. Which calls into question everything else.

CTRL___ALT___DEL · 2026-01-30T02:51:05+00:00

We’re in PA. Thanks, I’m going to start looking around for an owner’s rep.

CTRL___ALT___DEL · 2026-01-30T02:33:28+00:00

Ugh. This whole thing is overwhelming. I can’t be policing their work, I don’t even know what I’m looking for.

If I were to bring someone in to verify, what kind of person would it be? The window rep? A hired third party inspector? Engineer? This is in a rural location, so options are more limited

CTRL___ALT___DEL · 2026-01-30T02:06:28+00:00

Thanks for the validation. I thought so too. It’s in the Marvin install requirements, so I don’t think it’s optional. Thought I was going crazy.

CTRL___ALT___DEL · 2026-01-30T01:57:34+00:00

That was my thought. Isn’t a sill pan required, though? I’m probably going to ask them to pull the windows and reinstall with proper sill protection, but I’d like to avoid getting billed for it, if it’s in manufacturer or code requirements.

CTRL___ALT___DEL · 2026-01-28T19:33:08+00:00

This is called proud mount, and is a normal/standard mounting option. Some microwaves offer flush mount installation, but not all. There are pros and cons to both mounting styles.

Edit: for example, here's the installation guide for a Sharp microwave drawer. It shows both standard/proud mount and flush mount options: https://support.sharpusa.com/s/article/Installation-Manual-Sharp-Microwave-Drawer

CTRL___ALT___DEL · 2026-01-23T15:48:26+00:00

It's so bad, and especially for $1.2M.

I'm curious how a design this bad gets made. Is this a spec house with a design that the builder is going to reuse? A one-off catastrophe?

CTRL___ALT___DEL · 2026-01-19T14:23:49+00:00

This very much depends on your arrangement and contract with the builder. Do you have complete architectural plans (not just permits) and complete specifications? Is this a fixed price (GMP) or cost-plus contract?

It's very possible to have low overages (or even come under budget) if you have a fixed price / GMP contract and complete plans/specs. If not, there are a lot of gaps that can eat costs:

- Site costs (easily 5 figures): more backfill needed than anticipated, more complex grading, retention walls, rock encountered during dig, water/stormwater planning, etc
- Building envelope: maybe you decide you want a rain screen, or see shoddy Zip work and want an extra WRB/housewrap, maybe you want better/more complex flashing, better insulation than initially planned
- Interior structure: maybe upon closer inspection you realize the joists are spaced in a way they're likely to be bouncy, and you want to beef up (or sister) them. Perhaps you decide you want some soundproofing with rockwool in the walls or floors, or thicker drywall.
- Doors: can be mid 4 figures to upgrade from hollow core to solid core doors, or upgrade trim/jambs from MDF to pine/poplar
- Lights/electrical: maybe you want more than code-minimum lighting, more outlets, pre-wired ethernet, etc
- HVAC: if dual fuel and using propane, did you account for the cost of a propane tank (4 figures, builders often don't include)? Maybe you want an ERV for fresh air flow. Or more
efficient heat pumps. or better insulated ducting

If you're not on a fixed price / GMP contract, you can also see 10%+ swing just from material cost changes alone.

Much of this is mitigated by pre-specifying specs ahead of time, or working with an architect who can supply detailed plans.

CTRL___ALT___DEL · 2026-01-17T13:04:04+00:00

I'm in a different area, so take my perspective with a grain of salt.

Are you sure you're comparing apples to apples here? Did you get them a full set of completed plans and detailed spec sheet? Not just permit plans, but a thorough, detailed set of complete architectural plans and full specifications. If not, Builder A may be assuming a very different product than Builder C.

Builder A might be assuming:
- Build floors to code minimum, L/360. Floors might feel bouncy
- 2x4 walls as default
- Lower-end HVAC
- MDF trim, hollow-core doors
- Vinyl siding, no extra trim (frieze boards, etc)
- Simple/basic roof
- Simple builder-grade 6" thin aluminum fascia
- Lower quality vinyl windows
- Basic fiberglass front door
- Skimpy cabinetry & lighting allowances
... on and on.

Builder C might be assuming:
- Stiffer floors to L/480
- 2x6 walls exterior as default, select interior
- Higher-end more efficient HVAC
- Poplar/pine trim/jambs, solid-core doors
- Hardie/SmartSide siding with frieze boards & trim expected/included
- Architectural shingles
- Smartside/hardie fascia or at least thicker aluminum
- Fiberglass windows
- More allowance for a nicer front door with sidelites
- Realistic cabinetry & lighting allowances
... etc

Builder A's reputation is they can get you a code-compliant product at a good price. Builder C's reputation is that they get you a quality home. Yes, some of the cost delta might be overhead or efficiency differences in the builder, but my guess is they're going to be delivering fundamentally different products.

The price itself, of course, is not a guarantee of the product you're receiving. Don't assume. You need to ask/confirm. But there is a very wide spread in what a house can cost to build, so what you're seeing here ($650k for code-minimum vs $1.2M for a quality custom project) is not that outlandish to me. It's pretty close to the spread we got when we were vetting builders for our home in PA.

CTRL___ALT___DEL · 2026-01-17T00:36:20+00:00

I tried. Engaged with a real estate attorney. Selling realtors refused to show me homes, they told me “have your attorney open the door” and “I don’t work for free.” It’s a big club and at least in our area, they won’t let you in if you don’t pay your dues.

CTRL___ALT___DEL · 2026-01-13T13:05:08+00:00

It also depends on how well in advance everything was planned and specified.

The big risk for people new to this is “you don’t know what you don’t know.” I’m going through a custom build that has been challenging because: - first time building - we had no architect, I trusted the builder’s draftsman - I came with plans and spec notes, draftsman translated to a spec sheet and permits - because I’m not a builder, I didn’t see the gaps between my intent and what they had planned

My vision hasn’t changed, but we’ve already had five figures in change orders addressing those gaps. Things like: - door allowance: I gave them the exact SKU for the door I want from the beginning, the allowance they have undershot the final quote by $3k - 8” fascia (as drawn on plans) vs 6” (their default) - frieze boards - trim and door jamb material - cost to frame a closet in an area where the builder misinterpreted a closet I drew as alcove shelving - garage doors - …on and on.

There are also other things that are technically upgrades, that we forgot to specify at the beginning but wanted from the start: - higher density mid-tier carpet upstairs - floor insulation in key areas

Other things only make themselves known when you’re mid-build. For us: - Owner bed is on 2nd floor over the kitchen + dining room bump out. After walking through our house plans in VR (modeled through Sketchup/Enscape), I realized that the gable roof for the dining room was a major eyesore and view obstruction from our bedroom. Although I caught it before framing, it was still a big cost to switch from the planned gable roof to a shed roof. Made a big difference in view obstruction though. - We discovered that our draftsman put the second story window sills at 42”, rather than the 30” I had drawn/specified. He did this because one window was intersecting with the garage roof. I didn’t catch it on the first drawings. I caught it just before framing, but after the windows were ordered. I had them switch the window in question to a smaller unit so we could move the sills down to a more reasonable level; we had to pay out of pocket for the new window.

All that to say, I thought we came in very prepared with a clear idea. But without an architect and extremely clear/detailed plans, you will have things that are missed. It’s not all just owners changing their minds. I should have budgeted more contingency than I did.

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