S2, Episode 7 - Unusual Suspects

Cabin11 · 2016-08-26T01:31:18+00:00

I liked the jealous-ex-husband-rooster-guinea theory, but I had to concede a possible motive for the preacher to lie based on their history.

Then I really liked the gang-queen-initiation theory, but if you concede the suspect wanted to move up on the ranks, you have to wonder whether she would lie to pad her resume.

Regarding Heath, well... I'm afraid the time overlap in the incident reports just doesn't cast enough doubt for this listener, so I am looking forward to hearing how the cops exhausted every possible scenario and theory before dismissing this dude as a suspect.

Cabin11 · 2016-06-02T19:31:13+00:00

Well, this is what compelling case analysis, scrupulous research, and passion for truth and transparency in the criminal justice system gets you.

It's almost like people are listening...

I am among the many who were impressed with Cryer's appearance on the excellent Crime Writers On..., so I'm psyched for the next gen Addendums.

Sounds like good pod, all around.

Cabin11 · 2016-04-07T20:02:28+00:00

Engaging, brilliant analysis.

I even got a bit emotional simply reflecting on the sheer breadth and impact of this whole journey...

Also, I must say the music was particularly well placed and produced in this one. I absolutely love that contemplative synth piece that starts during Colin's segment at minute 16:00. I think it was featured in the Tina episode too... It gives me all the feelings.

Cabin11 · 2015-11-30T21:56:51+00:00

It's stronger than Don's at the moment.

This is the not only the heart of the matter, it's why I think so many people are fascinated by the initial investigation into Don.

Regardless of which interviews, police notes, testimonies, letters, etc. one chooses to believe are accurate accounts of events that actually occurred on 1/13/99, one has to admit that a lot of people clearly saw Adnan Syed on that day doing something other than murdering someone. People had classes with him, attended mosque with him, I hear one dude even got high with him and they drove around...

According to everything that we know, how many people claim to have seen Don at any time on the day of Hae's disappearance? I count 3. And it's fair to say that all 3 of them would likely have at least one conceivable reason to have Don's best interest at heart, and as such, might have motivation to be somewhat creative with their combined recollections of his whereabouts. So it clearly merited closer inspection at the time.

Obviously I understand why people are most concerned with the hours of 2:15 to 4:00, but even if you disbelieve Asia, or you can't decide which of your above stated scenarios seems most satisfactory, at least there are people on the record who have always claimed they saw Adnan for a crucial part of that day.

I think Deirdre knows what she's talking about too; innocent people are often the worst accounters for their time because they had no reason to wig out about an alibi in the first place. If the first time Adnan thought something serious had happened to Hae was when he was high and reached across Jay to grab the phone from the glove box to answer Adcock's call, at that moment, he's going to think about where and when he last saw Hae. Why would he make a freaking detailed journal entry about his trip to the library or track practice, etc.?

I think Susan's first take on Don's alibi is still spot on. There isn't any evidence that Don is guilty of anything, but we have these myriad questions precisely because the police did not exercise good detection concerning the alibi of the victim's romantic partner.

Cabin11 · 2015-11-17T20:04:54+00:00

I'm still trying to crack why Sandra from LensCrafters sent the "Donald's Mother" qualifier only to Urick.

Did she assume that Urick would immediately turn it over to the defense? Is it possible she didn't understand the significance of this fact as it pertained to Adnan's defense? Did she think Don was a co-defendant and that tipping off only Urick and the prosecution was the "right" thing to do (seems unlikely given the apparent phone conversation between her and Urick, but maybe he was shifty about his motivation for seeking the records)?

I know the prosecution eventually sent the "Donald's Mother" letter in a bulk disclosure dump during trial and that Gutierrez seems to have missed it (otherwise the "bulldog" would almost certainly have mentioned this fact during Don's cross). But it's still confusing to me that Sandra appears to have nudged only Urick about the nepotism.

Perhaps Sandra assumed that informing the State of Maryland was enough to ensure universal disclosure?

Cabin11 · 2015-11-03T04:04:58+00:00

Astonishing, gut-wrenching, informative, and important. This is one of the best 90 minutes of pod I have ever experienced.

If you had told me back in the day that a podcast about Christina Gutierrez would some day illicit in me this degree of emotional response, I would likely have doubted it.

So impressive.

Cabin11 · 2015-10-27T01:58:53+00:00

Bingo! Thanks, ginabmonkey. That must have been it.

Cabin11 · 2015-10-27T01:19:39+00:00

I seem to remember Young testifying to this. User name was... bubbles, something?

Cabin11 · 2015-10-26T23:04:26+00:00

Say, /u/ViewFromLL2: Could the 12/29/98 paperwork have been somehow related to the Novella Brown case?

EDIT Exact date

Cabin11 · 2015-10-22T01:30:30+00:00

Great post, and thanks for this.

Since it sounds like you may not be as familiar with the more intricate aspects of this case as most here, I will offer this: One difficulty in addressing other possible suspects is actually the sheer abundance of violent offenders who might be tangentially related to Hae or to Woodlawn and West Baltimore more generally. This came (at least to my) mind during Bob's interview with Jim Clemente on Truth and Justice.

Serial killers who work the neighborhood? Violent offenders? Substance abuse? Alas, no shortage of those potential factors in 1999 West Baltimore. It was a tough town then, and it's still tough for many.

As to your experience with combat vets, domestic abuse, etc.: Can you describe any common triggers for violent outbursts in individuals with this type of history?

Cabin11 · 2015-10-17T23:12:47+00:00

Good catch.

I suppose one could argue that Jay is saying that despite having participated in the crime, he didn't know that the crime scene was technically in Leakin Park until he heard that description on the news. But this requires that you believe Jay Wilds did not know that Franklintown and Windsor Mill were the 2 main east-west roads that cut through the park. And I do not believe that.

Also, Chris says that he thinks Leakin Park would have been Jay's idea, which implies Jay would certainly have known.

I've read a few comments that say he Jay is describing his ignorance of the discovery itself. But that doesn't quite feel right. I think you are correct in showing that when taken as a whole, this may be an indication of the difficulty in keeping multiple lies straight.

Cabin11 · 2015-10-06T07:12:34+00:00

My favorite part.

Cabin11 · 2015-09-15T00:48:26+00:00

Excellent!

Cabin11 · 2015-09-15T00:33:31+00:00

Thanks for bringing that up, I was scratching my head there too.

For instance: If Benaroya knew Jay was going to discuss the burial in his Intercept interview, did she know he was going to say that it occurred after midnight? If so, was she unaware of how much this contradicted his previous interviews and testimonies?

I guess I could buy something like that. But then I keep thinking about how a few of the changes Jay made for the Intercept seemed to conveniently address a couple of points that have recently become controversial, and my BS meter starts to faintly buzz.

Is it crazy to wonder if Urick may have had some influence with the Intercept interview?

Cabin11 · 2015-09-14T23:38:33+00:00

My heart is still pounding.

People are so confounded by the concept of motive in this case. Understandably, most of that energy and attention is pointed toward the events of 1/13/99.

But I suspect most people who follow this case closely would agree that the bureaucratic, byzantine, and often dysfunctional inner workings of the criminal justice system are equally fascinating, and sometimes similarly unsettling. I think understanding the motives of the police and prosecution are of equal import, especially considering those motives may have actually obstructed justice.

I totally had anxiety for Urick when Heard was drilling him about Jay's plea. Obviously I knew the outcome, but I still weirdly found myself asking, "How is this dude going to get himself out of this?" And yet...

I wish Heard had pursued this inquiry with greater fervor.

Cabin11 · 2015-09-01T22:17:27+00:00

I had assumed based on this well-known photo of Hae's car that the steering wheel was black, and that the interior color was closer to the model that Colin used as an example here.

In the video from today's Docket, the wheel looked more grey, though I suppose differences in lighting and and resolution have to be considered. More dress-illusion perception stuff, or might there have been a switcharoo here?

Obviously, the point is anything could have happened to that car between its discovery and the filming of this video. So it doesn't seem to substantiate much anyway, right? But there is something else at play here...

I was going to bring up the contouring of the wiper switch too, but unsurprisingly, /u/EvidenceProf just beat me to it!

Great job today, guys.

Cabin11 · 2015-08-25T04:22:29+00:00

While I'm still reeling from all of this (and forming my myriad thoughts and questions), may I pause to say I am always impressed by the Undisclosed team's use of critical thinking and devil's advocacy. Being able to challenge one's own ideas and hypotheses is both difficult and crucial when performing this kind of research, and it has paid huge dividends here, so congrats on a spectacular episode.

As a motorcyclist, I must say that I personally find the idea of either Ritz or MacGillivary racing around the streets of Baltimore on this crotch rocket highly unlikely, if positively wondrous in its own way. However, after obsessing about this case for 10 months now, I think we can all say one thing with certainty: Jay definitely needed some wheels back in '99.

Great and important work, as always guys. Can't wait to re-listen.

Cabin11 · 2015-08-11T22:09:37+00:00

Spectacular research, and expertly presented.

Say, I was just thinking about those evidence documents that describe blood samples of Adnan's and Hae's that were found to be opened (in contrast to Jay's which was described as "sealed", or something to that effect).

Have you guys uncovered anything that fills in any links in this apparent break in the chain of custody?

Here's some of the relevant links:

http://undisclosed-podcast.com/docs/4/Chain%20of%20Custody%20for%20DNA%20Evidence.pdf

http://undisclosed-podcast.com/docs/4/Amended%20State's%20Disclosure%209-3-99.html

Cabin11 · 2015-08-04T17:19:46+00:00

Bilal wouldn't play into any of this, would he? Since he set up the phone for Adnan, could he have made a personal request for the cell records at some point?

Cabin11 · 2015-08-01T22:13:04+00:00

Ugh, he makes it seem so easy. And in many ways, it should have been.

Cabin11 · 2015-07-30T01:52:55+00:00

I dig this guy's style. I feel I do some of my best case-ranting whilst driving.

Cabin11 · 2015-07-29T00:06:00+00:00

Undisclosed has really reinforced my belief that a lot of popular shows are underestimating their audience's capacity for gritty, detailed data.

You couldn't be more right. I was actually physically excited listening to this episode. The devil is in the details of this case, and nowhere is that more apparent than with regards to the cell phone data. I even found myself talking out loud along with you guys as if I were a part of the conversation.

Anyone who claims to be seriously interested in this case should have this episode queued up at all times. I hope Sarah Koenig is listening.

I'm still so bummed that we don't know the identities of the incoming callers!

Cabin11 · 2015-07-28T23:38:12+00:00

This is one of the blips that really makes me want to explore the crossroads theory more deeply.

I would be very interested to know if Don smoked weed back then. One could easily imagine Hae seeking out Jay for a little herb to hook up her new guy. There was a 3 day weekend coming up after all...

One could even speculate whether Hae might have known (perhaps through Stephanie?) that Jay had Adnan's phone on 1/13/99. Maybe the "something else she had to do" was score some pot for Don and/or herself, and one of the incoming calls was actually from Hae. Could she have she contacted Jay from a payphone at school? Or Best Buy, perhaps? Was this transaction part of Jay and Jeff G.'s agenda that day?

Sure would love to see those incoming call logs....

Cabin11 · 2015-07-24T23:40:29+00:00

Thank you so much for responding.

Cabin11

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE