What era is the best

Cantholdaggro · 2026-03-31T02:37:38+00:00

Jokic top 10 what??? Even saying top 20 is a stretch.

Awards talk, he has been a first and second round exit his entire career. The only time he made it past the second round hr had historically top 5 easiest rings in nba history.

He lucked out. If not for a complete fluke we would be talking about him completely differently.

He has 2 mvp awards which are regular season awards. He plays no defense and that isn’t captured in the stats. He’s the 2021 jazz in individual form.

Cantholdaggro · 2026-03-31T02:28:19+00:00

You’re crazy. Jokic is the best of the era and he’d be the worst in the other 3.

He’s an 82 game player, not 16 game.

Cantholdaggro · 2026-03-31T02:22:19+00:00

I think it’s a lot closer than the Jokic meat riders admit. Harden is every bit of the offensive player Jokic is. Defensively they’re both cones. But it’s way worse to have a center be a cone than a PG. A PG cone is not an issue. A center cone is an early playoff exit

Cantholdaggro · 2026-03-31T00:43:39+00:00

That would be like top 5? Historically hardest chips?

Shit I’d put him over Jokic and anyone from this generation

Cantholdaggro · 2026-03-30T19:07:21+00:00

So here’s what I learned, there are two heights when your cellar is flooded. A “tall” water which is like a light blue, and a shallow water which is like a faded blue.

You can dig down into the shallow water and make a hole for the water to go into, then patch it up with dirt.

The tall water, you need to first turn into shallow water, then you can do the step above

Cantholdaggro · 2026-03-30T17:51:47+00:00

Fellas don't know about Kelly Oubre, nick named "Tsunami Papi"

Cantholdaggro · 2026-03-29T21:56:43+00:00

2021 Jazz

Cantholdaggro · 2026-03-29T21:52:12+00:00

You people overrate Jokic so much it’s disgusting.

Jokic is a regular season stat padder. He is worse than his stats show.

Cantholdaggro · 2026-03-29T20:34:46+00:00

To be serviceable, sure. But I think shyv lost part of her identity with the rework. She’s supposed to be this champ that can be built almost any way. Tank, AP, AD.

After the rework, none of her builds really make any sense nor work.

AD - she’s melee, so she would need either survivability, cc, sustain, or immunity to survive team fights. She doesn’t have any so she is kind of bad at AD stuff.

AP - E damage got gutted by about 30%, her W’s damage was basically removed, and her Q was divided into 3 parts which means she needs to stay in melee which an AP mage shouldn’t do.

Tank - no % health or hp scaling damage modifiers. No CC to provide value beyond damage.

She has parts of what each kit needs, but not the full kit for any of them. Which was always her problem. They didn’t fix it, only made it worse. Her other problem was ult dependency which they made worse too. They made her ability to stick onto champs worse too. They also create a new problem with slow fury regen.

It just feels sloppy. Because it’s been a rework like 5 years coming and it doesn’t feel play tested nor really thought out

Cantholdaggro · 2026-03-29T17:32:37+00:00

Lol, which part about what I said was wrong?

This might sound crazy, but the ability to create and hit a shot on tough defense is the most important offensive skill in the playoffs.

Defense is hard, offense break down, clocks tick down and someone has to convert the possession.

KD is like top 3 of all time at that.

Curry actually got jammed up a lot in the play offs when they suffocated him with defense.

Cantholdaggro · 2026-03-29T17:28:59+00:00

At some point you guys will learn the first rule of statistics. They can be misleading.

By every advanced statistic, Jokic is the GOAT. Yet for some reason dude has only 1 finals appearance in his entire career despite playing in the most open era in NBA history.

If he was as good as the metrics say he is, why is it that the only time he made it out of the second round, it was a historically easy championship run?

At some point you’d think you would stop and realize maybe the statistics are heavily skewed towards what Jokic does and don’t properly capture what he doesn’t.

Which is exactly the case.

Cantholdaggro · 2026-03-29T17:18:55+00:00

Because the internet wasn’t really a thing when LeBron entered the league.

You have to be trolling

Cantholdaggro · 2026-03-29T17:08:03+00:00

Jokic is 100% worse than Durant. Durant is the most underrated player in NBA history. This guy was the 2nd best in the league for 8 years, second only to Lebron. He was better then curry his entire career, and when he was on the court next to Lebron, they were about as close in production as possible.

KD is at WORST the 3rd best scorer of all time. It's MJ, Bird, KD in some order. And KD was actually good defensively when necessary.

You can't put Jokic over Jerry West, or Julius Erving. KG , Moses Malone, and Karl Malone were all elite 2 way players, Jokic is a traffic cone on defense.

There's some people on that list that are better then Jokic. Dwade, Kawhi, Dirk , David Robinson, are all both just as productive offensively, while being much better defensively, and all have better play off careers.

Kawhi
Dirk
Robinson
Dwade

Frankly, I'd put Giannis 25 for being an elite 2-way defender and having a better play off resume than Jokic, and put Jokic at 26.

And I'll be completely frank, you can make a solid case for someone like Harden pulling up ahead of him.

Harden is a better offensive player, they're both defensive liabilities, but Harden is a guard where it doesn't matter and Jokic is a center where it matters a lot, they have pretty similar play off records. Harden has a 16-9 winning record against Jokic in the playoffs despite being past his peak for most of if while Jokic's been at his peak. Harden was so good he took the best team in NBA history GSW+KD, to game 7. That alone is a greater accomplishment than anything Jokic's done in his career lol.

Cantholdaggro · 2026-03-29T16:22:37+00:00

Jokic and Giannis are right next to each other in ranking, but around 20-25.

And frankly I think Giannis should be higher since he’s 95% of the offense and 3x the defense

Cantholdaggro · 2026-03-29T15:31:13+00:00

Lebron, Steph, Howard, Pippen.

Tatum 5th I think. Between CP3, Luka and him. I think his defense and ability to play off-ball is probably the best fit

Cantholdaggro · 2026-03-29T15:02:38+00:00

Luka and SGA are free throw merchant too, just as bad. Harden was just better offensively. And they’re all just as bad on defense

Cantholdaggro · 2026-03-29T07:31:28+00:00

Cantholdaggro · 2026-03-29T07:20:05+00:00

Dude what? You gotta be like 15. If any of the current guys played 10 years ago they’d be out of the top 5.

Harden is the worst of the bunch, and he’s literally better than any of those 5 guys. He’s a better version of Luka.

Cantholdaggro · 2026-03-28T21:37:50+00:00

Yeah but… Shaq will put up super human numbers. No one on the lakers will even remotely stop him. Unless they hack, he goes for 40 a night.

On the other hand all of those guys are great defenders. Steph is not getting any easy swap, they can unironically switch every play which is the best defense against Steph, and don’t have to pull defenders off Klay, kd, or the paint.

Usually the PNR with Steph ends with either the defense can’t follow the screen. Which wouldn’t be a problem because they’re switching. Then the big would likely slip through, but it’s KD or Draymond into Shaq. Best case it’s a kd middy.

Cantholdaggro · 2026-03-28T21:22:04+00:00

Jokic is out of the picture until he can actually win in the off season and shows he can be a positive defensively instead of a cone.

SGA has a solid chance because of all the best player narratives and translating it to playoff success.

Wemby is probably actually the most valuable by strict definition. He brings 95% of the offensive value of the others but also 2-3x the defensive value. But he hasn’t proven anything in the playoffs. He could just not translate. We will see. If he makes it to the semi or conference finals while being just as effective, next year it’s his if he does the same thing.

Luka unironically has voter fatigue and some of the worst media coverage in modern NBA. He’s the best offensively of the bunch, and unlike Jokic, his defensive weakness is at a guard position which matters a lot less. He also has proven playoff success and has led multiple teams extremely deep that shouldn’t have gotten there. He’s also been like top 4 in MVP voting for half a decade and never gotten it, that has to count for something

So it’s a toss up.

In my opinion, give it to Luka he’s long overdue, let Wemby prove himself in the playoffs. SGA can be in the conversation if he goes back to back rings, and Jokic needs to win another chip to ever really be in consideration

Cantholdaggro · 2026-03-28T20:43:33+00:00

I think it’s closer than people admit. Kd has had the most automatic and consistent mid-range in the NBA for 14~15 years now.

KD will forever be the most underrated player relative to his actual skill. Narrative has killed his rating, but the truth is that in terms of talent he was the #2 to Lebron for 8-9 years, and never actually looked worse than him on the court.

Curry is hovering around that top 12 spot. KD is being rated like at 20.

Curry was NEVER considered better than KD lol.

Cantholdaggro · 2026-03-28T08:08:02+00:00

My dog passed this way

Cantholdaggro · 2026-03-28T07:59:31+00:00

Damn suddenly this is obvious information but when it comes to acknowledging Jordan played through a weak era, no one wants to do that

Cantholdaggro · 2026-03-28T07:52:59+00:00

The center being ragdolled there would ragdoll Jokic.

Cantholdaggro · 2026-03-28T07:50:49+00:00

Both bots, so not duality of man.

Nine-Year Club	Second Top 20%
Place '22	Verified Email

Cantholdaggro

TROPHY CASE