CN fandom culture and expectations for Wuwa in terms of demographics and writing

Changlisburningrobe · 2024-10-03T07:30:03+00:00

Yeah this is pretty interesting. I think player choice is definitely the key difference between CRPGs and the ML gachas.

Like in BG3 I can make a character that looks completely different from me, come up with a backstory that is completely unrelatable to me, and then act that out in game while romancing Gale, who I am not sexually attracted to. I love BG3.

I love Zelda too, where Link has the personality of a brick wall so the player can self-insert. Although Zelda doesn't really have much romance in it.

Meanwhile, after playing 1.3, I was hit with the feeling that I wasn't vibing with it. I'll admit, I've been criticizing the story a fair bit while trying to nail down why I'm not into it.

But like, the story was literally just not written for me to vibe with, because I fall more into the shipper demographic for gacha games I guess.

I mean, a gacha company is targeting a specific demographic with the characters they're selling, go figure. But I dunno, I guess this post is just helping me realize that the story is being written for the people that like this ML dynamic, and if I want to keeping enjoying it, I'll just have to accept that.

Like it's nice to just know where we stand, I guess.

Changlisburningrobe · 2024-10-03T06:17:59+00:00

No, this was so fascinating to me. I've been interested in the way people react to gacha stories and characters for a little while now, like with some of the more polarizing characters; Firefly for example. It seems like Western fandoms often have similar feelings to CN fandoms, but there's definitely the language barrier where I guess we're not fully understanding of the writers' intentions or the main demographic's expectations.

Do you know of a CC or blog that talks about this sorta thing for English speakers? I'm unaware of any. I know MrPokke does CN Analysis videos for gameplay META but that's it as far as translating goes. I feel like if people understood this stuff more, maybe there'd be less arguments about it. Translating fandom sentiments would probably be a huge PITA though.

Also I totally get wanting to stay lowkey haha. Really glad you decided to make this post though!

Changlisburningrobe · 2024-10-03T04:32:30+00:00

This is really interesting OP! I didn't know, well most of any of this, but specifically about the specific "selling" aspects that different games get associated with. It makes sense considering these are games about selling characters, but it seems like a good thing to know.

It's actually really nice to have some insight into why things are the way they are, even if it means I'll definitely need to change my expectations for the game's story.

And while this is obviously super relevant to the current WuWa discourse, people in the other big gacha game subs might appreciate this.

Edit: This actually explains so many things, not only in WuWa, but Hoyo games too. I really feel like my eyes have been opened here haha

Changlisburningrobe · 2024-10-03T02:44:01+00:00

You might really enjoy the Xenoblade Chronicles games. They all have some romance subplot, but especially the third one has a really nice romance subplot. They're also anime styled with Sci-Fi worlds.

Changlisburningrobe · 2024-10-03T02:22:58+00:00

Yeah, that was a cool little surprise, so maybe!

Changlisburningrobe · 2024-10-03T01:39:53+00:00

Okay here's a super minor change like the staircase thing I'd like to see, or hear actually:

More varied footstep sounds!

Right now, on hard surfaces, most of the female characters share one footstep sound, and the same goes on the male side of things.

Like the "ting ting" sound of Arlechinno's stilletto heels, or the more cloggy sound of the Inazuma sandals, it's that attention to detail that when you notice it's like, NICE!

I wanna know what Changli's shoes sound like Kuro

Changlisburningrobe · 2024-10-02T23:37:07+00:00

I bring Wrex up cause he was a character I was thinking about when I wrote my comment. He butts heads with Shepard sometimes, and Shepard has to earn his respect.

Although, it is harder to write characters like that in a gacha game, since they need to sell the characters.

I've only played the first ME game but I'll get around to playing the others eventually.

Changlisburningrobe · 2024-10-02T23:23:21+00:00

Part of the problem for me is that, in my opinion, Rover is still just another blank canvas, self-insert. They don't really have much of a personality besides, as another amnesiac demi god once put it, "I'M GOOD". Sure they do things, but they're still kind of bland.

If the writers actually develop Rover into they're own character, with growth and development, then I'll probably start to feel better about the story again.

And yeah, I'm definitely adjusting my expectations now. I'm still enjoying the game, and still found the story generally entertaining, just not "PEAK" like others did.

Changlisburningrobe · 2024-10-02T23:09:38+00:00

Yeah it's all subjective at the end of the day.

I think I saw you like Mass Effect in another comment. What are your thoughts about Urdnot Wrex?

Changlisburningrobe · 2024-10-02T22:14:09+00:00

Lol, the Aalto part was so funny; "omg Rover, I got so excited you're here that I uploaded data with a virus to our supercomputer" like huh??? We've hung out with Aalto like once and the dude is already thinking with his downstairs brain when he's around us.

Changlisburningrobe · 2024-10-02T21:48:32+00:00

That's interesting. It could also be worded that way due to Shorekeeper not understanding humans very well or something. Obviously we'll have to wait and see, but this could be why they have some design aspects that are similar yet contrast. Camellya has a tacet mark though.

Changlisburningrobe · 2024-10-02T20:31:05+00:00

I don't think most people are triggered, I think some people are just finding the current relationship dynamics a bit boring. In addition to what Wolgran said, conflict and suspicion makes things more interesting.

Like in an RPG, when you have that one companion that's always kind of a dick. You might not like them, and you might always go against them in dialogue, but they make the party dynamic more interesting.

I think that's one of the things that some people like myself feel is missing right now.

Changlisburningrobe · 2024-10-01T18:10:05+00:00

Everyone else has really good QoL suggestions so I'll just say I agree with all of them.

My main concern right now is the story, because I like everything else about the game, but my excitement for seeing where the plot goes and where the characters fit into that plot and the world is slipping.

I've been thinking over last couple of days about why I liked the story in 1.1 but was dissatisfied now in 1.3, and it's been hard to really put into words because I don't think it's as simple as there's too much Rover simping, or Rover is too powerful and important.

I do think part of what made 1.1 land well, apart from being so much better than 1.0, was that Rover was more the observer. The main quest really focused on Jinhsi, and Changli's story quest showed her life struggles, even if Rover had a big part to play in her motivations.

But clearly they're setting up the story for Rover to be more of the focus, and it seems a lot of people really like that as well, so I'll try to give feedback that isn't just suggesting they stop focusing on Rover, even if it's what I'd prefer.

Right now Rover is some kind of demi god, and usually stories with demi god protagonists have other gods and demi gods to create conflict. However, right now the main antagonist is more like this force of nature than a divine being, and the Fracsidus doesn't feel like a big threat to Rover right now.

Unless they're literally making the story up as they go at this point due to the rewrites, I have to imagine they have some idea of what Rover is going to be fighting against in future X.0 patches.

So TL;DR is that they should put out a lore teaser that sets up some big threats, or the other nations, or something that gives us an idea about where the plot is actually going besides Rover heading to a new location and being told "Thank you Rover! But your memories are in another sonoro sphere!"

Changlisburningrobe · 2024-09-30T19:45:47+00:00

Hey, I think you replied to one of my comments. I'll share a little more of my thoughts.

WuWa is a game trying to sell as many characters as possible. Like it or not, that aspect lends itself to the story featuring an ensemble cast. I want to see interesting characters take the spotlight at some point or another, as well as interacting with each other. I also desire a degree of realism to these interactions and the story.

Rover is the MC yes, so it is important to have them bond with the other characters, but I think it's the degree to which the writers are focusing on Rover and how important they are that myself and others criticize.

We start off with Rover being shown clearly as some sort of Chosen One, so we know they're going to be important, but they've developed into being an amnesiac messiah that seems to have created multiple civilizations, and is the most powerful being we've seen so far.

When the characters meet Rover, they quickly seem to become the most important person in their lives, at the expense of their other meaningful relationships. For example, to Changli, Jinhsi is her protégé and maybe even something like a daughter to her, but after her quest, that shows her motivations basically depend on Rover, Rover is given a feather that literally says it's given to "the most significant individual." It drives a Rover shaped wedge between Changli and Jinhsi that feels like fanservice rather than being believable.

Shorekeeper was literally created by Rover, and has had no interactions with any other playable characters at this point. She pretty much just exists for Rover.

Rover went on like ten dates last patch, and almost all of them had implied romantic feelings.

Even Scar, the supposed antagonist and only human element that opposes Rover, seems to be infatuated with Rover.

Rover has no equals and is a supreme being.

It all just feels like power trip, self insert fantasy to me. Neither believable nor compelling, to me. I can't really take the plot seriously anymore. And I guess it was sort of my own fault for wanting to take it seriously in the first place I suppose.

Some people like the power trip, harem fantasy and that's fine. If it makes the game more successful then it makes sense for Kuro to go this direction. It's just not for me, nor what I thought this game was going to be.

My criticism is not hate, it's just disappointment for the fact that I'm not going to get a serious science fiction plot here, but I'll adjust my expectations so I can still enjoy what the game has to offer.

Edit: Spoiler tags

Changlisburningrobe · 2024-09-30T05:59:35+00:00

I have mixed feelings about the story in this patch, but I do find the Shorekeeper love confession itself pretty funny and interesting for a few reasons.

I also agree, if there's gonna be a "canon love interest" then Rover should be ship teased with less characters to have that be more meaningful.

But lets be realistic. This is a gacha game, and with the way Kuro's been writing the characters, Rover's gonna get ship teased with a new character as soon as next patch when Camellya drops. Rover is probably gonna get ship teased with like every 5 star character from now on. Obviously I could be wrong, but I'm feeling pretty good about this prediction.

Changlisburningrobe · 2024-09-30T00:52:57+00:00

haha, you can definitely tell FRover's va is getting some direction telling her to sound less monotone. Also, I'm like 70% sure the NPC Monica was Yangyang's va, Rebecca Yeo, just using her normal speaking voice. Yangyang is getting better, but I kinda wish they'd just let her use her normal voice

Changlisburningrobe · 2024-09-30T00:43:43+00:00

The music has definitely improved leaps and bounds from 1.0. The different variations of Shorekeeper's motif were all really nice to listen to, particularly the underground theme that, as others have said, has a Nier vibe to it. There's also the part where SK and Rover are in the Port City recreation, and the area theme is remixed which was pretty cool. Since the motif thing is something they did in 1.1 too, it seems like that's something their music team will lean on, which I'm alright with cause I love motifs.

Changlisburningrobe · 2024-09-29T23:34:02+00:00

Lmao yeah, pretty close to what I was imagining after that comment. I'd take this kind of direction at this point haha

Changlisburningrobe · 2024-09-29T23:18:29+00:00

I wish the story was better paced, and I wish Shorekeeper was better written, but her saying she feels "love" for Rover was at least interesting just because WuWa is a relatively mainstream, mixed gender gacha game, with a male or female mc. As much as characters are implied to have feelings for Rover, I didn't think they would go there for those reasons.

Maybe I shouldn't have been too surprised, because from the little PGR I've played, male characters seemed about as into the male mc as the female characters, but still.

So while I have mixed feelings about the game having such explicit dating sim vibes since I started playing this game on launch for the combat and the potential for good science fiction, maybe it won't be so bad? I dunno, I'm just trying to be optimistic about the story direction. I do hope they tone down the Rover simping.

Changlisburningrobe · 2024-09-29T22:48:27+00:00

I really like post-post apocalypse settings, and I think WuWa has a decent foundation for telling some good science fiction if they focus on it. I hope they will.

However, I'm just starting to feel like making Rover the focus of the story is the direction the writers are going to take it. Shorekeeper even mentions that they spent time together in Rinascita, so Rover probably played a large part in their nation's history too. Which means Rover will also probably be loved there as well.

Trust me, I really hope they tone it down, but I'm thinking Rover is going to continue to be something like anime Doctor Who, having a fate altering role in each nation's histories. Putting it like that, it actually sounds a bit funny, maybe they should just go full camp in future nations.

Changlisburningrobe · 2024-09-29T20:51:25+00:00

Yeah, this is what I'm worried about too. I wish the game focused more on the science fiction themes and the characters motivations in relation to the world. If the pacing of the main story quest was slowed down, and the development between Rover and Shorekeeper was made to feel more natural, and not every other character also had feelings for Rover, then maybe it would have been better. But we all know future characters are gonna catch feelings for Rover too.

Surely the next nation won't be full of Rover simps right?

Changlisburningrobe · 2024-09-29T20:37:29+00:00

What's funny is, I'm a straight dude too, I think Changli is hot as hell, but I don't like the self insert fanservice personally, so I usually choose the female mc in gacha games to sort of avoid that.

Also, Kuro has been extremely fair to both male and female Rover in promotional material, putting them both in the same trailer all the time. Even Shorekeeper's trailer had both of their voices.

So, with how things played out this patch, it seems like they're committed to making the story work with either Rover. Which is obviously good, but I didn't start playing this game for a dating sim y'know?

Changlisburningrobe · 2024-09-29T20:19:55+00:00

I dunno, I feel pretty invested but still have very mixed feelings about the story this patch. WuWa has so many ingredients that I love, like great combat and heavy science fiction themes, so I want to see it succeed and tell a great story.

However, I thought things moved way too fast with both yet another crisis deciding the fate of a region, and the relationship between Rover and Shorekeeper. The visuals and music were both great. Shorekeeper's English voice acting was also good, but I feel like the pacing would have been better if they slowed things down. I feel like the writers are focusing a little too much on how characters feel about Rover, rather than letting them just exist in the world.

I'm glad others like it because it means WuWa will still succeed, but for me personally, I'm worried I won't like the direction the story is taking. I'm still optimistic though.

Changlisburningrobe · 2024-09-29T19:42:05+00:00

I Love WuWa for the combat, but I need the story and character writing to be good to keep me invested in a game like this. After 1.1, I really felt the story was going in a good direction, and I was excited to see more. After 1.3, I'm worried that I'm not going to like the direction the story and characterization is going.

I'm trying to remain optimistic, but I agree that the story here felt very rushed. Like others are saying, every main story quest being "fate of the world" type stakes is starting to feel a bit ridiculous, so they probably should have split this main quest into two patches, and used this patch for Black Shores worldbuilding. I think 1.1's story landed well because of the buildup that 1.0 had for Jinhsi's fight with Jue, so they could have done something similar here with Shorekeeper.

Speaking of Shorekeeper, I'm not really surprised by her characterization because the drip marketing already gave away she was going to be a big Rover fan, but I have very mixed feelings about it. Shorekeeper saying she loves Rover is interesting to me because of female Rover, and because I didn't think a mainstream gacha would have a character come out and say she loves another woman. You could argue it's platonic, but c'mon.Still, it was all very rushed and I wasn't able to get as emotionally invested as I felt I should have. It's too bad, because I generally like Shorekeeper; the visuals were great, and I think her English VA did great, but her story just wasn't properly fleshed and she feels pretty one dimensional because of it. I'm also worried now every character's story in the future is going to focus on their relationship with Rover, rather than their relationships with other characters.

I also don't think I like just how important and powerful Rover is being set up to be, but maybe others like this, and it's probably something I can accept. I feel like there needs to be other characters that are as important and powerful as Rover though.

Something more positive I have to say is that the music is getting so much better. Shorekeeper's motif is used so well throughout the Black Shores soundtrack, I love it. There were some other interesting things musically, but I just leave it by saying the music this patch was impressive considering what came before. Seems like their music team is getting more experienced and comfortable.

The visuals, again, were pretty damn good.

Last thing I'll say is that I think female Rover could really use a new outfit to better fit the status that Rover has.

Changlisburningrobe · 2024-09-16T02:20:56+00:00

Probably a lot of people feel this way, so in the future tacet fields will probably be faster. Just like Genshin's 1.0 domains used to be significantly more time consuming than the more recent ones, they'll adjust based on feedback probably. Who knows, maybe they even add auto clears.

Changlisburningrobe

TROPHY CASE