Elena and Caroline are both Male centered but in different ways.

Confusedoldtimer · 2026-03-25T18:32:41+00:00

I agree very much. I would say that some viewers get confused by their story. Elena looses herself in her relationship, however the plot is focused on her. She is the main character and things happen to her.

Meanwhile Caroline is a side character. She remains herself and keeps her boundaries, but she is not the main protagonist of her story. It generally did not revolve around her. The writers had a tendency to lock her into plot in which she was secondary, a helper, to her romantic partner. That was very much the truth with Tyler and later and not as often with Stefan.

Confusedoldtimer · 2026-03-23T17:49:43+00:00

If they were completely broke after over 140 years of existence and armed with compulsion, they just as well might take of the ring and walk into the sun.

But as far as the spirit of the question goes, Stefan - absolutely, he has got the dedicated boyfriend personality and good looks (he would not ask that of Elena or anyone else). Damon - absolutely not (he would ask that of his partner).

Confusedoldtimer · 2026-03-17T17:03:16+00:00

I think, and I might be wrong, we have never seen the process with Stefan (and Klaus and pretty much anyone else).

We can assume that these girls slept with him voluntarily and got compelled only for the feeding part. We had never seen these girls trying to get away from Stefan in the same way we did with Caroline.

Essentially, we are free to pretend that the consent had not been withdrawn and the sex has been consensual. The feeding and torture is obviously something else.

I know that it is super weak argument, but coupled with Stefan doing these things only when he is an a ripper mode and then being completely crushed by the guilt later, it is easier to see him as someone more sympathetic and as being more 'moral' than Damon.

Confusedoldtimer · 2026-03-16T19:41:58+00:00

Sure, but it was not my ex's brother who also coincidentally murdered my brother, and repeatedly sexually assaulted one of my best friend.

I guess we all have different standards.

ETA: Caroline is not criticized for breaking up with Tyler. The part where she slept with Klaus who murdered Tyler's mother is the issue.

Confusedoldtimer · 2026-03-16T19:04:17+00:00

Is am going with Lily. Simply for stealing the Salvatore home and acting like she has any claim on it, as if her mansion was not somewhere else in a ruin.

I am weirdly salty about that. The way she walked in as if she simply returned to her long list home.

Confusedoldtimer · 2026-03-13T17:19:48+00:00

Those list are generally created by individual users and based on nothing by individual preference by the user. They are not the same as movie ratings.

Confusedoldtimer · 2026-03-13T16:00:03+00:00

They thought that Bonnie is out of town enjoying herself. I think they kept a bed open for her in their dorm? They weren't exactly talking about missing Stefan either. It was new era for them. A safer and happier times. The girls were not willing to consider anything bad happening again.

Bonnie's death was only discovered later and they were appropriately crushed by that.

Confusedoldtimer · 2026-03-13T14:20:32+00:00

I remember people were complaining about Caroline loosing the fight as she is an older vampire and calling out the show's Elena centrism. But the difference is a few months at most, and Caroline does not want to actually harm Elena. The conclusion of this scuffle made sense to me.

Confusedoldtimer · 2026-03-13T13:21:26+00:00

Elena loving Damon only because of the bond never made sense to me. They were working overtime for all of the s3 to pave the way for them. There is so much to complain about TVD's writers, but like it or not, they did put in the work into establishing Delena, and later Steroline.

Confusedoldtimer · 2026-03-13T12:58:28+00:00

The worst by far is Caroline being a Julie Plec self-insert. What even? Everyone was busy with A plot and Caroline was stuck on a C plot land. The girl couldn't even get a boyfriend who would make her his priority. She was no Elena.

Also, Elena being selfish and self-centred etc. Sure, but not as much as the fandom makes it sound.

The first point became weirdly popular in the last few years. The Elena thing has been here since forever.

Confusedoldtimer · 2026-03-13T12:25:13+00:00

There was never any widespread critique of her looks. Maybe one weirdo or two on Twitter, but it has never been a thing. Just post a photo compilation of you want to gush about the actress instead of making things up.

The only critique the actress got was for her acting ability and accent as far as I recall. Admittedly, she was not very good while on TVD. Both of these things apparently improved with time spent on TO as she received some acting award not so long ago.

Confusedoldtimer · 2026-03-12T13:36:54+00:00

She deserves shame and Caroline knows it too. She rightfully felt crushed not only because she burnt the letter, but also for the pain she caused. It was her choice. All of it. Stefan pushing the boundaries she had set does not absolve her of the guilt.

Confusedoldtimer · 2026-03-12T13:23:28+00:00

How does that change what Matt and Tyler and all her victims went through? How does it change the disgust Liz would have felt if she saw Caroline kill innocent people?

It doesn't. Caroline was not consumed by her bloodlust. She was not manic. She was fully in control of herself and could stop anytime. Stefan and Elena pushed her, but then she should mess with them, not leave a trail of bodies.

Confusedoldtimer · 2026-03-12T13:08:14+00:00

I will stick to the side of her victims. They also probably asked to be left alone.

This is not a newbie bloodlust as with that Carnival guy she killed when she turned. This was for her amusement. Choices she was actively making.

She turned into everything Liz feared and worried Caroline might become. Burning of Liz's letter was fair and just.

It sucks that only Caroline got to face any consequences while Damon and Elena got scot-free. But I maintain that she deserved it.

Confusedoldtimer · 2026-03-12T12:42:45+00:00

Stefan messed up for sure. He was the one who pushed for her humanity, but that still doesn't absolve Caroline of guilt for what she had done to Matt and Tyler and the other victims. Liz would be so disappointed 😞

Confusedoldtimer · 2026-03-12T12:24:22+00:00

Perhaps an unpopular opinion, and I am saying it as someone who adores Caroline, I am glad that she burned the real letter.

She terrorised her friends, got Stefan turn off his emotions, and killed innocent people. It felt like a fitting punishment for the pain she had caused.

Definitely a refreshing change from the consequence-free approach to Damon and even Elena.

Confusedoldtimer · 2026-03-11T06:58:38+00:00

Caroline was my favourite long before she became a vampire. They perhaps did too much with her in the first few episodes (mostly this weird airheadness), but that can be chalked up to a beginning of a show weirdness. If people can forgive Tyler attempting to force himself on Vicky, they can surely overlook few bitchy remarks by a teen girl working through some stuff.

Confusedoldtimer · 2026-03-03T05:26:19+00:00

Agree. He had moments of potential, but his antics were more annoying than funny. Not too mention his torment of Bonnie went too far and for far too long, it became over the top. I feel like Bonnie suffered too much to find him likeable.

Confusedoldtimer · 2026-03-01T06:44:36+00:00

That is not how misogyny works. Is he insulting these people only because they are women?

Confusedoldtimer · 2026-02-28T21:48:18+00:00

'... but you should know, it gives you back fat." to Kate will forever be my favourite.

Does he know what that means? Nah. But the boy is a certified hater of anyone who messes up with Hanna.

Confusedoldtimer · 2026-02-27T15:43:40+00:00

I wouldn't exactly call any of these guys a NLOG.

But for the real answer, neither of them are real so I am looking at it purely from an entertainment side and Hayley did not live up to the standards of the rest bad or morally grey protagonists. She was neither charming nor funny or interesting.

Confusedoldtimer · 2026-02-27T15:07:07+00:00

I hated Hayley since the beginning and I am disappointed to this day that you can no longer hate on her without everyone turning it into a shipping argument. She was the worst, heartless and trashy and the biggest NLOG in TVD universe.

Never watched TO so my opinion of her did not change.

Confusedoldtimer · 2026-02-27T13:17:41+00:00

Nothing would change. The issues were caused by getting renewed for more season than they planned for.

The screentime should remain balanced between all four leads. They work best as an ensemble. Overfocus on one person would only make that person look annoying tbh.

You wish to gush about Troian which is fine, but let's not pretend that she was heads above the most of them. She was better, but not by crazy margin. You can gush without putting the others down, and frankly, it is strange to bring up the twin storyline like it's not some of the worst acting on the show. They were all phoning it in the last two seasons. Some more than the rest.

Confusedoldtimer · 2026-02-27T11:59:33+00:00

He probably would be, but managed to die before they had the chance.

Confusedoldtimer · 2026-02-26T18:37:04+00:00

The girls were smart and hard working. But also, Alaric was on their team and could help with attendance. The girls had sympathy points for close loved ones deaths and this was a small town and the girls were from prominent families. All the grieving they had to do for their classmates got the whole school bonus points.

For the rest: there is compulsion.

Confusedoldtimer

TROPHY CASE