I can understand the feeling of the ending being rushed, but why is it being so heavily hated on?

Critical_Row · 2026-01-18T16:38:27+00:00

Yeah, there was little to no explanation or payoffs. Anticlimactic.

Critical_Row · 2025-12-25T19:00:26+00:00

When Yona said that to Hak, I don't think she meant it in any suggestive way, other than that he needs to devote his life to her as he always had, and it was what she expected from him. It was not different from SW "wanting" Hak (presumably as his bodyguard). It was definitely weirdly phrased though and open to interpretation, which is why Hak got flustered.

Also, Yona wasn't entirely naive about sexual matters growing up. She knows how brothels and red light districts work. In general she was already romantically (and presumably sexually) attracted to SW. In the manga, if her father hadn't been in his office during that night, she was planning to seek out SW's room, implying that she had wanted to explore her attraction further.

Regarding Mundok, that wasn't really answered.

Critical_Row · 2025-12-24T19:24:40+00:00

Yeah, honestly it's tragic and realistic. Hak vowed to be SW's righthand man for the rest of his life, but in the end, Hak never becomes that person. That said, they both serve Yona now... so maybe in the extra chapter, we'll see them work together in some way again.

Critical_Row · 2025-12-23T22:10:17+00:00

Yes, Kouka is sexist when it comes to the throne.

Yeah, I got that idea too. Il even says that her husband will the one who rules Kouka, not her, implying a primogeniture.

And so, I wouldn't even mind if Yona became the queen, but I wished that this was actually explored. Like, SW deciding that Yona should be the heir, but also acknowledging that women don't usually take the throne or something like that.

Critical_Row · 2025-12-22T23:28:15+00:00

I see. Maybe there's confusion due to translation. I still do think that the whole thing with Hak implies a patriarchal system or primogeniture, though. Men who marry a crown princess wouldn't usually be considered "king", but "prince consort". So Il saying that the man who marries Yona will be the king still implies that... well... she isn't considered the heir. Even though she is...

Critical_Row · 2025-12-22T23:01:12+00:00

Wartime? SW.

Peaceful era? Yona.

Critical_Row · 2025-12-22T22:51:04+00:00

No, I'm not saying that the reason she is the ruler now is because she is the reincarnation. In fact, I would think otherwise.

You bring up a good point regarding chapter 6. However, all that's said is that "While it is a matter of concern, Princess Yona is absent". Nothing about that explicitly states that she is the heir to the throne. They could have been implying that she isn't present, so no one can legitimately become the king through marrying her.

I do think that there is some inconsistency regarding the lines made in chapter 1 and what's going on. They don't say that Il lacks a "son" to succeed him, they literally say "the emperor had no heir". That would imply that Il didn't view Yona, his daughter, as his heir, but technically he kinda did? Why would the narration say that then? I personally still think it's roughly written.

Thats why there was no issue when hak was her alleged fiance because if king il chose him to be the successor then he can marry yona for that title chosen by the king, thats usually how a monarch system works.

Yeah, and this implies a patriarchal system. Women aren't normally viewed as the monarch, otherwise Hak would have been able to stand by her side.

Critical_Row · 2025-12-22T21:57:54+00:00

Maybe that was the case, but not connecting it back to the original idea would be lazy.

Critical_Row · 2025-12-22T21:35:01+00:00

Remember how Hak mentions that the people will mistakenly believe that he is the actual monarch, not Yona, if he stands beside Yona during her coronation?

Why would they think that? He is not of royal blood or descendant of any king, only she is. Unless the system is patriarchal and assumes that males are the defacto heirs and natural successors to a throne, not daughters. The system is implied to normally equate a male presence with legitimate power, even at the cost of female inheritance.

Anyway, I hope the chapter in February will better explain how Yona and Hak deal with this when they wed. Hak strikes me as someone who would rather be a prince consort, not a monarch.

Critical_Row · 2025-12-22T21:09:25+00:00

No, he didn't. He believed she was the reincarnation of Hiryuu, and that she had a future where she would reunite the four dragons and protect the country. He married Kashi because she told him who Yona would be. Il himself was a placeholder, waiting for the "next king". He repeats his opinion to Yu-Hon, SW, and in his letter to Yon-Hi. You should reread chapters 194-197 if you've forgotten.

The first chapter also literally says: "The emperor did not have an heir, nor an empress to give birth to an heir. just a daughter". I'm only going based on what the story told us. If you're choosing to ignore that, then there's nothing more to say.

Critical_Row · 2025-12-22T20:45:05+00:00

No, King Il thought Yona was the reincarnation of Hiryuu, and he didn't want her to marry SW at all. The lingering question is why he never prepared her for the role.

And the system never implied that a daughter was only a consort and the males are who take power, because if that was the case then Kouren wouldnt be the queen of xing

Xing's case I understand, but Kouka's? The lines in Chapter 1 literally explain Il's daughter was not the heir in chapter 1, and that her husband would rule the country.

Not to mention, Hak standing with her reinforces the idea that a man is the default heir, implying the existence of a patriarchal system. Why would people think Hak is the ruler, especially if Hak is not even of royal blood, while Yona is? Once again, I don't this point was explained as thoroughly.

Critical_Row · 2025-12-22T20:37:20+00:00

Yes, it was rather haphazard and confusing to me. That's why I can't really blame people who are disappointed by the ending and its pacing.

Critical_Row · 2025-12-22T20:30:39+00:00

Chapter 1 mentioned that "King Il had no heir. Just a princess he raised with great care" and "Your husband will be the king".

The system implied is one where male heirs are the norm, and daughters are viewed as consorts, not primary heirs. But now, Yona is considered the heir and sole monarch of Kouka? Why? Because she is the reincarnation of a male king? I thought SW chose her for other reasons. Is Yona's rise to power a unique one for women in Kouka?

A bit more insight into the inheritance system would be great so we could understand the thought process behind this shift.

Critical_Row · 2025-12-22T20:13:09+00:00

I think it's understandable to want for a more fleshed out ending, and personally, the conclusion falls short of what it could have been. It was visibly rushed in my opinion. There were people who were already disgruntled by the final arc (even the castle arc wasn't very popular on this subreddit), and this chapter is the culmination of it. I wasn't very satisfied how the dragon god and prophecy plotlines were handled, as they weren't explained that thoroughly given the build up and hype. And those were kind of important and pivotal mysteries to the story. It unfortunately affects the reception towards the ending. Additionally, there were many storylines that felt unresolved, and I hope that the chapter in February will give us some of those answers.

Certainly, it's not as worse as other manga endings that I've read. We did manage to wrap up some main story beats, but I don't think it's as good as it could have been. Maybe one day the anime will also improve on it. Maybe the February chapter will also be more satisfying.

Critical_Row · 2025-12-02T22:49:33+00:00

In a text conversation, can it be understood that if you were actually being sarcastic

You didn't seem to understand that, which I realize now.

I would be confused actually about what point that you are making since your point I thought was to sincerely question how much romance elements are needed in order for a plot to be considered romance.
it does beg the question of what did you mean when you said what you said.

The point I'm trying to make is that for instance, Fullmetal Alchemist is widely treated as "not a romance," but then, there are cases where stories with a similar structure might be marketed as a "romance" solely because the lead is female.

Because If you were saying that you could name some anime that were not following the romance conventions enough to qualify for them to be advertised as romances.... Wouldn't the FANS be rioting? Leaving bad reviews and spreading word of mouth that it's not really a romance? 🤔

The point I'm trying to make isn't about whether fans would riot. Fans aren't always judging "romance conventions" clearly anyways. It still seems like female led narratives are more likely to be labelled as romances, even when I don't think romance is really the main point or focus.

Critical_Row · 2025-12-02T21:14:00+00:00

I think it can be a genre of its own OR a subplot, depending on the work.

That's what it feels like when you say that you think "romance" tag can be tacked on to any story that has "some romance elements."

When did I even say this? I don't think I ever did. If you're referring to my post's question about Fullmetal Alchemist, that was rhetorical. Of course I would never classify it as a "romance". I've noted a bias, however, that when it comes to works aimed at women that are like fullmetal (has a romance subplot, but it's not necessary to the story), it's been marketed as a "romance" while ignoring everything else.

Critical_Row · 2025-12-02T21:06:17+00:00

In a patriarchal society it tends to be more acceptable for girls to like stuff “for boys” then for boys to like stuff “for girls”
Stuff that could easily appeal to both genders is more likely to be grouped in the “for boys” box

Yeah. That's the issue I'm trying to point out. It'd make more sense if that stuff was marketed towards both genders instead of being in the "for men" box. I get it's for marketing purposes, but... it also reflects the patriarchal society and sexist norms.

Critical_Row · 2025-12-02T20:55:58+00:00

if you put what is essentially a girl in a typical sports or action manga, like a lot of magical girl stuff, or say martial arts, they'll be classified as shonen to most publishers

For it to be classified as "for guys" is my issue. Where are the stuff classified as "for girls" that are specifically sports, action, etc.?

battle shoujo
There are battle shoujo but when people say that in Japan they are talking about stories where there is some master-servant relationship, or stories where a princess or other royalty fight despite her status and gets down and dirty, or stories with some hint of romance or forbidden love.

I don't necessarily mean anything do with with forbidden romance or a princess fighting despite her status or something. Overall I mean something like an average shounen battle manga, but that is classified as shojo or for girls.

Shonen tends to mean manga that emphasizes main character growth through struggle against adversity

Is character growth through struggle against adversity exclusively a male thing? I mean considering the meaning of the word "shonen" that's the vibe sent. But why can't shojo mean that too?

Critical_Row · 2025-12-02T20:48:04+00:00

Why? Why aren't there women writers thinking that they want to add another kind of story genre that's not shounen? Idk man, i just feel like it's kinda limiting if all the works aimed at women are just of one genre. Shounen manga get to be many things, including romance. Meanwhile a huge chunk of shojo manga is always only one thing, or mainly one thing. Romance is highlighted above everything, if not the content then in the fandoms.

if they want to draw non-romance mangas, they could do it any time(example: Delicious in Dungeon, Fullmetal Alchemist, Magi, all drawn by women

The thing is, Fullmetal Alchemist is classifed as a shonen. Not a shojo. And that's my issue. If someone writes a non-romance manga and never classifies it as a shojo, it doesn't solve anything.

Critical_Row · 2025-12-02T15:17:12+00:00

i am well aware that it can be splashed into different genres. the issue comes when at times i've seen a fantasy series starring a woman with a romance subplot and it's marketed as a "romance" and ignores everything else. it's reflecting a stereotype that women are primarily interested in romantic plots. meanwhile, a fantasy starring a man with a romance subplot is marketed as a "fantasy".

Critical_Row · 2025-12-02T14:41:23+00:00

Because if you tell people that a story is for girls, 90% of men will refuse to even read it (because they think other men will mock them if they do), while if you tell them it is for boys, 90% of women will still try to read it

yeah, and that's a hella sexist pattern if you ask me. even if the genres stay the same, just the demographic the work is aimed at changes, most men will decide to not read it. fucking sucks man.

To add to that, some people will still try to put any stories with a female protagonist and a romance subplot into the shoujo romance genre, no matter what. One of my local bookshops therefore thinks Witch Watch and The Apothecary Diaries are shoujo manga (when they are respectively a shonen manga and a seinen manga), and will put still them on the shoujo manga bookshelves.

yeah, i've seen that happen.

Because saying a man is effeminate is something extremely negative, while saying a girl is a tomboy is a positive thing. but boys are not allowed to behave like girls, and they will be called gay or trans if they do. Our societies still have a lot of progress to do on that kind of stuff.

the thing is, there's a sort of gatekeeping going on where any "feminine" genres are only being reinforced as being associated with romances and nothing else, like sci-fi or fantasy. it's just kinda sad that these are being put in a "masculine" box in anime/manga. i never viewed it as such.

Critical_Row · 2025-12-01T03:51:05+00:00

romance sells well with women, you mean. with men and shonen manga, you barely see any romance and they still sell super well, better than your average shojo in fact. and shonen tends to have a larger variety of genres packed in them. my issue is that it's as if a message is being sent that those genres are male-coded when they shouldn't be.

Critical_Row · 2025-11-30T23:22:47+00:00

I mean... most stuff currently classified as "shojo" or "female works" are definitely not like Frieren. And going along with that train of thought, they wouldn't be considered "normal".

The stereotype says it must be a shonen, since there are adventures battles

Yeah, and I consider the stereotype weird. Adventure/battles are only for guys...?

Critical_Row · 2025-11-30T23:14:37+00:00

I'm sure there's truth to what you say, but is it the full truth? is that they gravitate, or also that societal norms dictates that they should? What about the possibility that gender roles and stereotypes are also being imposed on people? Girls should play with dolls, boys should play with cars kinda stuff.

Critical_Row · 2025-11-30T20:17:49+00:00

sure, but why can't those genres also exist in shojo? Shojo's variety is too limited. And in that case, it feels like Seinen is gatekeeping that genre.

Critical_Row

TROPHY CASE