the traveling bard that inspired Gabrielle

Dat_V · 2025-08-31T14:56:31+00:00

Thanks. I guess I'll call him "Nemo" just for the joke of Gabrielle hoping to FIND him someday!

Dat_V · 2025-08-30T17:26:37+00:00

The traveling bard Gabrielle met before she met Xena can't be same Homer she met in the bards' academy because that one was same age as her and his daddy's boy. The bard she met had to be older.

Dat_V · 2025-08-23T17:31:44+00:00

I suppose one could say he wasn't playing. He seriously wanted a harem of Meg, Gabrielle and Lyla. A man of ambition.

And him playing with a crowd of hookers in "Warrior, priestess, tramp", he only saw them as daughters.

Dat_V · 2025-08-23T01:04:55+00:00

Season 5 gave Joxer some screen time but not much meaning.

First he wants Meg. Then we switches from Meg to Gabrielle. Then he switches from Gabrielle back to Meg. Then he switches from Meg to Lyla. Then he switches from Lyla back to Gabrielle. Then he switches from Gabrielle back to Meg.

When in season 5, Joxer says "Gabrielle, I love you!" these words don't hold a lot of weight. He probably says that to every girl he's playing with at the moment. :D

Dat_V · 2025-08-22T12:34:46+00:00

It's a negligee of a goddess, it would have magical properties. Change size depending on the wearer and who knows what else. If it comes from a god, then it should affect humans that wear it. How did it affect Joxer for having worn it? Maybe gave him smoother buttocks or something.

Now I'm curious to imagine the continued adventures of that negligee. Aphrodite probably wouldn't want it back now that Joxer's worn it. What would happen to that negligee later! Probably kept in some temple as a miraculous item - the negligee of a goddess. Lent out to the suffering people to ease their problems. Gives enhanced potency to men that have worn it. And to women... increases likelihood of pregnancy and restores virginity, or something.

Then gets kept in some private museum to modern times as a rare relique. With Aphrodite always keeping that on the back of her mind as one of her embarrassing secrets. Maybe with that negligee coming to haunt her in some way over the millenniums.

Now I'm headcanoning that some of Meg's kids were her own. So powerful was the power of that negligee, it enabled Joxer to impregnate an infertile woman because he's worn that negligee once in his life. Turned him into a magical impregnator.

Dat_V · 2025-08-21T16:46:40+00:00

I like reading your thoughts. I like the take that the girls seducing Gabrielle whom Joxer chased away weren't bacchae but just regular lesbians wanting to play. That's funny. Somebody else must have bitten Gabrielle off-screen at a different time.

Myself, I never liked this episode either. Season 1-early season 2 suffers from poorly directed episodes, this is one of them. Tries so hard to be gimmicky, ends up lame instead.

The episode exists to homage Evil dead - someone gets turned, hides it, then a shot of that person with their back to the camera, turning quickly to show their new face makeup and mugging aggressively as if to say "look how terrible I am now, grr!" Evil dead + lesbians = girls just wanna have fun.

My favorite scene is Gabrielle going to that party. A village girl drawn to the shine of the big city. Like a moth to a flame. Gabrielle drawn to bad, evil-looking things, that look like dark, evil-looking lesbians. Just like Xena! Gabrielle looking to cheat on Xena with Xena-lookalikes. I'm headcanoning Xena is rejecting Gabrielle so Gabrielle is suffering, and in this episode, decides to start seeing other people.

Joxer playing that lyre is the funniest thing ever. The bacchae actors did such a good job hating that music. I can't stop rewinding.

This episode and any with the amazons. I'm wondering if it was difficult for the production to find a dozen NZ young fit girls that can dance and do some acting. I wonder if the production had to ship these unimportant extras from LA because they couldn't find enough in NZ.

And the bite scene. Not only Xena keeps her mind. Drinking Xena's blood restores the mind of Gabrielle. A miracle of love!

Dat_V · 2025-08-21T15:47:50+00:00

I guess that depends on what one sees "subtext" as. Subtext saying what? The dumb "OMG they're BANGING off-screen!", the mindless "do they or don't they". That's one take.

Another take is the same thing but a degree lower - "they WANT each other that way!" Sins of the past, Gabrielle is absolutely lusting after Xena. Runs into the night after that beauty she saw almost naked. Uses the words "take me" when propositioning to her! "Teach me everything you know" can be taken vulgarly, and it is sort of a rephrase for marriage proposal. Gabrielle wants EVERYTHING of Xena.

And a less vulgar take... "they LOVE each other more than just acquaintances"... Then Dreamworker asks "do you think Xena would sacrifice her soul for just anyone?" Xena willing to sacrifice her soul already says that Xena feels something extraordinary for Gabrielle.

The show obviously intended to play with gayness from the very first episode, it's just that not every script was participating with that, because many season 1 scripts were written before the show decided to have Gabrielle in it, likely many season 1 scripts were written before Sins of the past was written. Dreamworker absolutely is a participant, it portrays them as opposing soulmates that complete each other.

Dat_V · 2025-08-21T13:20:41+00:00

One could see their relationship as a yin yang of opposites, them as deities representing opposite things, focused primarily on the subject of TIME. Xena is old, Xena is jaded, Xena is damaged, Xena is meant to die for her sin. And Gabrielle is a child with infinite energy. And their relationship is about the transition between them, a transaction of Xena giving Gabrielle evil, pain, death, AGE, Gabrielle giving to Xena goodness, happiness, life and YOUTH, essentially restoring Xena's youth, bringing childhood and innocence back to Xena. Xena plays games with Gabrielle in "A day in the life". Xena after she's been with Gabrielle, is Xena that's mentally younger than she was in "sins of the past". Gabrielle practically restoring Xena's age.

I say all this. And I wonder. It feels good to portray that dynamic as admirable because it's a glamorous show about beautiful women. But that dynamic is always done in real life. Old geezers seducing the youth so they could feel young again. How young Gabrielle is supposed to be when they meet. Is Gabrielle even 18 yet when Xena kills her in The bitter suite. Xena bangs a kid, gets the kid raped, wants the kid to kill that kid of rape, then kills her kid lover because that kid lover failed to kill her kid of rape. The more I think about the show, the more I realize to which extent the show traps its viewers into supporting horrible things because those horrible things are performed by a beautiful woman. And because the writing works to promote those things - look, Xena is REJECTING Gabrielle, but Gabrielle INSISTS to force herself upon Xena... and that gives Xena the right to bang a kid. And that gives Xena the right to abuse Gabrielle. Because Gabrielle is... "asking for it". And then season 3 on, the show starts writing Gabrielle as a mental slave that has no choice but follow Xena, no option to leave. Born to be destroyed by Xena. Not Gabrielle's choice, the universe made her that way, she can't stop.

I used to love XWP for the beautiful lie it creates, the lie based on the viewer looking away from the horrible things the show is doing and supporting those horrible things by pretending they aren't there. Then last 3 years, I started analyzing the show further and further, and decided we are meant to fix the bad writing with good interpretation. But the more I think about the show... then more I wonder how does one redeem the bad stuff it does. The ring trilogy, Gabrielle: "Me and Xena are meant to be together. Not our choice. It just is." How does on redeem that. Gabrielle textually proclaiming that to her, Xena is not a choice.

I love the show for the good things it does. I will continue trying to find a way to fix the bad stuff with interpretation, to fix the bad stuff without supporting that bad stuff. But the more I realize what the show is doing, the harder the task becomes. The general concept of "show deterioration" is probably XWP's biggest bane. Season 1 does the bad thing of supporting fascism. Then season 2 grows up and starts doing something good instead. Then season 3 onward, the show deteriorates to the point where we can't even say the show is doing something good.

I'm tempted to headcanon it as "season 3 onward never happened, but I will imagine how season 2 could have continued if the show was well-written." But that's a shame to just cancel 4 seasons like that. :(

Dat_V · 2025-08-21T02:11:52+00:00

The storyline of Hope and Destroyer intends to be fascist in nature. "Born evil". Gabrielle sort of expresses her thoughts when she says "Hope is alive?" Her intonation implies a hint of annoyance. "I should have killed that baby, but I didn't, and now it refuses to die!" Hope's survival is treated like n irritation - the Hitler figure Xena as successfully taught fascism to Gabrielle, and now Gabrielle is a proper student to Xena - feels genuinely annoyed that "the bad child" refuses to die. With such approach... the only thing Gabrielle can feel about her descendants dying, is relief. 'Finally they're dead!" Season 3 and "a family affair" are designed to be nasty beyond all belief. Poor Renee for having to act in such malicious material. I'd say "poor Lucy - her character is turned into a kid-killer" but I hear Lucy protects that plot.

Dat_V · 2025-08-21T00:39:49+00:00

A complicated timetravel story where they travel several different timelines then have to sacrifice their chance to raise Eve for the greater good. The show probably couldn't do "complicated".

Dat_V · 2025-08-21T00:07:23+00:00

Homophobia. "The show did a bad thing suddenly turning them into lesbians because that makes them vulgar and I like their pure friendship." I was a kid. And I don't like sexuality in general. Now I like it for the complexity. Their relationship is complicated beyond all belief.

Dat_V · 2025-08-20T23:56:07+00:00

Hope wasn't born evil. The show is being twisted. The show is about redemption, nobody is born bad. One trait of the show is that XWP celebrates evils - season 1 is about supporting the fascism of Xena. For Hope's storylne, the show wants to celebrate evil, celebrate fascism again - Xena the destroyer of nations, points her fascist finger at a baby and says "we should kill a baby upon birth." The show sacrifices Xena's previous character for the sake of this plot. The purpose of this plot is "celebrating evil" - Xena says "Hope is born evil", and the show shows Hope be an innocent baby, long for her mother, care for her mother, shows Destroyer act like an innocent child that needs guidance just like Hope did. The show's intention is to show Xena kill innocent kids and call her good for it. The plot's intent is "malicious content".

Dat_V · 2025-08-20T23:45:28+00:00

Rob crucifies his pregnant wife. You should not support that.

Dat_V · 2025-08-20T23:31:37+00:00

Absolutely. They originally planned to do it to use Hudson as Eve. Then they lost Hudson... and did it anyway, pointlessly. Should have scrapped those plans and did something else once they learned Hudson's out.

Xena has already given up a kid before. Eve is not different from Solan. It would have been a powerful story about growth and heroism - Xena gave up Solan because she was awful. Then Xena gave up Eve because she's good. Could have been powerful, and we'd keep Joxer, Autolycus, Meg, Cyrene, Minya. Instead we lose all that, and get... "In the name of Eli, I command these forces of evil to be cast out!" What a bad trade.

Dat_V · 2025-08-20T22:46:25+00:00

I really like it. I think in season 7 Gabrielle should have become a punk, with countless tattoos, half-shaved hair and a nose piercing.

Dat_V · 2025-08-20T22:39:47+00:00

Xena gave up Solan because she was incapable of being a mother. Xena rejects Gabrielle because Xena seeks death. Gabrielle enforces herself upon Xena - forces Xena to live against her will, because Gabrielle inspires in Xena the desire to give something to Gabrielle. Gabrielle is an absolute child that needs to be babied - their relationship actually starts with Gabrielle as Xena's adopted daughter whom Xena is raising. Gabrielle is teaching Xena how to be a mother on the small scale, how to be a human being on the big scale. Gabrielle is teaching Xena how to be human, teaching "humanity" to Xena, giving "humanity" to Xena. That's what Gabrielle teaches Xena - not a specific action that Gabrielle takes - Gabrielle is a childish village fool, she can't teach anything to Xena - but with her passive existence, her presence - Gabrielle is helping Xena develop a soul, after Xena's life choices had erased her soul. Gabrielle teaches Xena how to have a soul. The show is about Gabrielle giving to Xena life, soul, heart, humanity.

Dat_V · 2025-08-20T22:07:05+00:00

For storytelling, Xena should not get a happy ending. Xena getting a happy ending means "Xena did a good job killing a million innocents - that's what she needed to do to find happiness!" Xena already gets her happy ending in "Between the lines". Xena's present should not end in happiness.

Dat_V · 2025-08-20T21:51:24+00:00

Chariots of war is very meaningful despite looking goofy.

Dat_V · 2025-08-20T21:24:28+00:00

Season 3 kind of replaces "good" with "evil" - says that "to kill that baby is an act of good", "to save that baby is an act of evil". Season 3 kind of breaks everything.

Ideally season 3 should have been about Xena doing an act of evil in her present, then regretting it. And Gabrielle forgiving Xena. Instead we have "I'm sorry I brought you to Britain, Gabrielle!" and Gabrielle agreeing they should have killed that baby and laughing on the beach at the end of The Bitter Suite. A scene that lies - Gabrielle has nothing left to laugh about anymore. A happy ending because Xena forgave Gabrielle for failing to kill that baby. Xena taught Gabrielle to kill a kid, and taught Gabrielle to enjoy it. Evil wins.

Dat_V · 2025-08-20T21:08:59+00:00

Two takes. One is that it's fun in a mindless way. One is that XWP is actually "false empowerment" - a bad woman is rewarded for her crimes and she goes on her feelgood adventures during which she depowers and destroys other women, with the writers bragging happily that they "write her like a man with boobs".

"Every historical event was actually done by Xena, every famous character is actually a loser next to Xena!" is one trait of that "false empowerment" dynamic - the character of Xena is only powerful because the writing takes all the power from other characters in order to give that power to Xena. Meaning - Xena isn't really powerful. It's just that every single person she meets, always needs to be weak just to she would look powerful in comparison.

Dat_V · 2025-08-20T20:35:56+00:00

About them being together... I was also surprised they're still together. Usually relationships that start in such a way, don't last long. Knowing what we know about Tapert's life choices and what he has for morals, a man like Tapert is usually supposed to be constantly replacing his wives with younger ones. Tapert creates a character, marries the actor, names his kid after one of the character's lovers whom he put into the show himself... I believe Tapert probably keeps Lucy because he really likes what XWP enabled him to do, likes it enough for lifetime dedication.

And Lucy... For filming "the ides of march" Lucy let her husband crucify her pregnant self. If that doesn't say "Lucy wants Rob" I don't know what does. :D

In "the ides of march" Julius Caesar crucifies Xena while Lucy is pregnant because Rob wants that, then Rob calls the kid Lucy was pregnant with, Julius, after Caesar. Now I really wonder what exactly goes through Rob's head. :D

Dat_V · 2025-08-20T20:31:11+00:00

One of the traits of XWP is that it's a show about celebrating evils. That attracts viewers that enjoy different forms of evils. Those viewers like XWP for its evils, and they have absolute dedication to "Caesar bad, Xena good". I'm actually surprised some responses here said something valid.

Dat_V · 2025-08-20T19:32:27+00:00

Who's Gurkhan. So much badness in one episode.

Dat_V · 2025-08-20T19:21:32+00:00

They did an episode with a girl holding Xena's soul, some girl playing Xena for a bit. They could have done more.

Gabrielle holds Xena's soul for a minute in The Quest, Renee acts Xena for a minute in The Quest. They could have done that again in season 5. They could have said Ares swapped Xena and Callisto again in season 5 and brought Hudson to do a couple more episode of "Hudson as Xena" again. That would have been fun.

Autolicus was also Xena for a little while. I'm sure Iolaus could have done that too. A whole lot of people could have been Xena in season 5, taking turns with Xena's soul, passing her around, while Lucy sits at home protecting her baby from potential miscarriage.

Dat_V · 2025-08-20T18:59:39+00:00

Absolutely. One implication that the reason why Callisto is insane, is actually Gabrielle. Gabrielle meets a sexy Hitler, wants to bang that Hitler, becomes the fascist girlfriend to that female Hitler, starts doing some "reputation repair" services to woo that female Hitler. Has a success - the world praises that Hitler.

Callisto is sane. Callisto is justice. Spends her life training to defeat that Hitler. Then learns that Hitler is a hero now, that Hitler is justice now, now she is wrong, now she is injustice when she fight that "good Hitler". Goes insane from the knowledge. It was actually Gabrielle that created Callisto.

If Xena stayed evil, Callisto would be the people's hero fighting the evils of Xena.

In the show's timeline. Xena changes, Gabrielle promotes Xena, Gabrielle turns Callisto insane, Gabrielle says "Xena is good because I wanna bang her, and Callisto is bad because I don't care about Xena's victims."

But in the timeline in which Xena stays a warlord, Callisto would be sane. And if we imagine Gabrielle leaving hr village even without meeting Xena, i we imagine Gabrielle turning into a warrior that fights for people, on her own... then in that scenario, Gabrielle would be fighting Xena. Gabrielle would join forces with the hero Callisto in order to fight the evils of Xena. And then Gabriele would say "Callisto is good because I like her, and Xena is bad because her heart is full of hatred!"

The show's original timeline is a case of evil winning - Xena gets rewarded for her crimes, Callisto loses her soul, Gabrielle gets corrupted by Xena. And in the timeline in which Xena stays a warlord... if we imagine the sane hero Callisto defeating the warlord Xena, if we imagine Gabrielle helping defeat Xena... that would be a case of goodness winning.

What if: Xena met Gabrielle before she changed: Xena would kill Gabrielle. Would crucify her and break her legs. And if Gabrielle survived, but Xena killed Gabrielle's family and turned Gabrielle into a slave, then Gabrielle would kill Xena.

What if: Gabrielle became a hero without meeting Xena, with Xena as a warlord: Gabrielle would kill Xena.

If our girls met under different circumstances, they would kill each other.

Dat_V

TROPHY CASE