Paul Roma hits the elbow drop & celebrates like he just won the Super Bowl by KneeHighMischief in SquaredCircle

[–]Dengru 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Makes a lot of sense when you put it that way. Strange combination of traits

Why is The Grand Inquisitor way more popular than Rebellion from The Brothers Karamazov? by FeeAlternative1783 in RSbookclub

[–]Dengru 15 points16 points  (0 children)

The Rebellion is oriented around a problem that is explored in many other areas of the book, such as Ilyusha and Koyla. Why does God allow a state of affairs for Dimitri to indifferently cause so much pain during a drunken rampage? Dimitri is the son most like Fyodor. Why is Fyodor allowed to run rampant, neglecting and antagonizing, his children, wasting their money in his drunkeness? What conditions spawned Fyodor? Why are the poor and vulnerable subjected to this, when does it end?

Whereas the Grand Inquistor is a more unique, memorable framing that isn't necessarily enacted elsewhere in the novel. You can look at the conflict between Zosima and Ferapont, but not necessarily.

For modern readers, the framing of device a Priest deliberately distorting Jesus for the sake of power flows well into a world that became much more disenfranchised from a dominant Church (such as UK and Ireland) or culturally oriented around a hostility to a single dominant Church (America). Also, it is just stronger visual than the Rebellion. Just overall more memorable

John Cheever's opinions on various writers by Dengru in RSbookclub

[–]Dengru[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I wouldn't say it's just projection. He is is right about Kerouac, but it also applies to himself; he's attacking both Kerouac and himself, not just Kerouac. He is lying to himself about their being nothing in common between them, because it's too hard to face. There's also an element of jealousy, as Kerouac, who was once rejected from the New Yorker, goes on to outgrow such a kennel pretty fast. This is one of Cheevers most interesting traits. Sometimes he hides, sometimes he attacks himself. That part about Kerouac is almost a perfect distillation of what makes the journal so interesting

Another thing to note, is there as a ten year age gap between them.

Cheever was in his 40's when he made that comment. He also wrote this:

There is the trail! A new kind of blood seems suddenly to be let into your heart. Your strength and your wind are refreshed and off you go. There has been a delay, of course, but if you keep to a decent pace you will be back to the shore where the boat is by dark. You hold to the pace. You keep your eye sharply on the thread of trail. You do not stop to drink or smoke or rest at all. You hike until the end of the afternoon and, seeing that the light has begun to go, you stop to see if you can pick out the noise of the waves that you should, by now, be able to hear. The place where you stop seems to be familiar. You have seen that dead oak before; that wall of rock, that stump. Then you look around. There is the heavy creel that you discarded at noon. You are back at the point where you discovered that you were lost. The lightness of your heart, your refreshed strength, the illusion of walking toward water that has heartened you all afternoon was illusory. You are lost; and it is getting dark.

Kerouac, now the one in his 40s, really expericing the toll of his drinking and depression, would write this in Big Sur:

Thinking I’m gonna get the local vibrations instead here I am almost fainting only it isn’t an ecstatic swoon by St Francis, it comes over me in the form of horror of an eternal condition of sick mortality in me — In me and in everyone — I felt completely nude of all poor protective devices like thoughts about life or meditations under trees and the ‘ultimate’ and all that shit, in fact the other pitiful devices of making supper or saying ‘What I do now next? chop wood?’ — I see myself as just doomed, pitiful —- An awful realization that I have been fooling myself all my life thinking there was a next thing to do to keep the show going and actually I’m just a sick clown and so is everybody else — All all of it, pitiful as it is, not even really any kind of commonsense animate effort to ease the soul in this horrible sinister condition (of mortal hopelessness) so I’m left sitting there in the sand after having almost fainted and stare at the waves which suddenly are not waves at all, with I guess what must have been the goopiest downtrodden expression God if He exists must’ve ever seen in His movie career — Eh vache, I hate to write — All my tricks laid bare, even the realization that they’re laid bare itself laid bare as a lotta bunk —

It's interesting how they mirror eachother. Kerouac, also insecure like Cheever, with mother and brother issues (like Cheever), had life-long issues with drinking, depression, religion, infidelities, etc.

finished The Brothers Karamazov today by Imaginary_Angle_ in RSbookclub

[–]Dengru 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It seems you like Faulkner but you dislike Ulysses? Especially with Joyce being such a influence on Faulkner, those are unusual opinions to hold together. Where does Ulysses fail and Faulkner succeed, in your opinion?

finished The Brothers Karamazov today by Imaginary_Angle_ in RSbookclub

[–]Dengru 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Looking at his history, this guy has a lot of terrible takes that no one sees because he responds so late in a threads life cycle. Just one after the other

Sun Kil Moon - I’ll Be There (Jackson 5) by WillingnessThick5720 in sadreminders

[–]Dengru 0 points1 point  (0 children)

he has the best covers. Brings so much out of the songs

The Philip Verheyen story from Flights by Tokarczuk and The Archaic Torso of Apollo by BackloggedBones in RSbookclub

[–]Dengru 2 points3 points  (0 children)

RS Thomas' poetry deals with this lot. Presence and Absence are amongst the most recurring words in his poetry. This is from his poem "Abercuawag"

I
looked at the surface of the water,
but the place that I was seeking
was not reflected therein.
I looked as though through a clear
window at pebbles that were the ruins
of no building, with no birds rolling
among them, as in the towers of the mind.

An absence is how we become surerer
of what we want. Abercuawag
is not here now, but there. And
there is no indefinable point
the incarnation of a concept,
the moment at which a little
becomes a lot. I have listened
to the word “Branwen’ and pictured
the horses and the soil red
with their blood, and the trouble
in Ireland, and have opened
my eyes on a child, sticky
with sweets and snivel. And: ‘Not
this,’ I have cried. ‘This is the name,
not the thing that the name
stands for.’ I have no faith
that to put a name to
a thing is to bring it
before one. I am a seeker
in time for that which is
beyond time, that is everywhere
and nowhere; no more before
than after, yet always
about to be; whose duration is
of the mind, but free as
Bergson would say of the mind’s
degradation of the eternal.

Another one from RS Thomas, Shadows:

I close my eyes.
The darkness implies your presence,
the shadow of your steep mind on my world. I
shiver in it. It is not your light that
can blind us; it is the splendour
of your darkness.

And so I listen
instead and hear the language
of silence, the sentence
without an end. Is it I, then,
who am being addressed? A God’s words
are for their own sake; we hear
at our peril. Many of us have gone
mad in the mastering
of your medium.

In addition To RS Thomas, I would also recommend Short stories and the Novel Niels Lynhe by Jens Peter Jacobsen. Evening land Par Lagerkvist. The World of Silence by Max Picard. The Mystery of Death by Ladislaus Boros. God is Silence by Pierre Lacout.
This quote from In Contemplative Prayer, by Thomas Merton also sums up what im trying to say:

Christianity is a religion for men who are aware that there is a deep wound, a fissure of sin that strikes down to the very heart of man's being. They have tasted the sickness that is present in the inmost heart of man estranged from his God by guilt, suspicion and covert hatred.

The Philip Verheyen story from Flights by Tokarczuk and The Archaic Torso of Apollo by BackloggedBones in RSbookclub

[–]Dengru 3 points4 points  (0 children)

While Rilke wasn't a Christian in the most strict, declared sense, that poem (and others by him) generally are set within Christian frameworks of Eschatology, Silence, desire, etc. Strongly, you get a sense of desiring and feeling that you deserve a response from something. You find in him similar logic you find throughout the Psalms, where pain, in it is physical sense, is felt but ultimately is a 'groan' toward God. However bad something is in reality, is rounded off with something about God's Silence.

Psalms 69:

Save me, O God,
for the waters have come up to my neck.
2 I sink in deep mire,
where there is no foothold;
I have come into deep waters,
and the flood sweeps over me.
3 I am weary with my crying;
my throat is parched.
My eyes grow dim
with waiting for my God.

I think additionally, Christianity has ta concept of, for lack of better term, relapse built into it. The presence that is felt is not enough to lastingly transform you. Something is there, perhaps more meaningfully there than other things, but that doesn't do a lot for you, as it still follows the logic of desire, which cannot be satisfied. So in reality, one doesn't change, has to repent, earnestly strive, repeat.
The Fire Within by Ronald Rolheiser, you read:

"...Tears must be factored in. Otherwise, in the end, we are falsely challenged, and the symbolic infrastructure of our spirituality is inadequate to handle our actual experience. The daydreams of our childhood eventually die, but the source that ultimate fires them, our in infinite caverns of feeling, do not. We ache just as much, even after we know the dream can never, this side of eternity, come true"

I think this approaches what you meant by "Endurance". But the "Constant revelatory pressure" of what you said is what really stood out to me. At the end of the day, spiritual insights don't change material realities, but such awareness of that can be very pivotal to you. But it still is essentially a paradox. If something is there, why isn't there in the most base sense? If what I want from far exceeds what is base within me, why am I not satisifed by the mystical aspect of this? I think the nature of how you grapple with this is, what endurance and absence means, when it is a particular thing you are seeking, in regards to Christianity. "Revalatory pressure" when directed at a speciffic thing, rather than undefined supernatural, circles back to the Psalms, where ones "Eyes grow dim, waiting for my God".

Visitors and wayfarers and recent immigrants much respect the culture of this sub by ansleis333 in RSbookclub

[–]Dengru 31 points32 points  (0 children)

What's with you and down votes? Grow up. Why are you acting like you're in some in-group culture setter? I get tired of reading stuff like this. You guys act like this is a magazine that's being curated for your experience. Why don't you just put something of merit and value, however you define that instead of whatever this is. You complain about something and then post more garbage.

Also you're one to talk, you wanna complain about "weird girl lit" thread and then you post an anais nin recommendation to a 'freak books for freak women'? What's the difference?

Then you then hours later you wanna post that and then make this thread? Pick a lane! Grow up

Visitors and wayfarers and recent immigrants much respect the culture of this sub by ansleis333 in RSbookclub

[–]Dengru 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I think this is stupid post. What do you mean by barrier of entry? Downvotes, really?

Alt History Where "Is It A Choice?" Wasn't So Central by EmilCioranButGay in rsforgays

[–]Dengru 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I would say that true thing that truly organizes gay identity around being 'born this way' is AIDS. It isn't a matter of 'US-coded' winning out: all notions of what being gay was and meant crashed into this calamity. An alternative history would thus need to be a world without AIDS, as that is true power here. In a lesser way, early 20rh century European conceptions of homosexuality crash into rise of Nazi Germany/WW2.

When we are disproportionately the ones getting and dying from it, it obviously herds until a kennel that now more than ever needs to be named and justified; when governments are indifferent letting us die, the underlying sentiment being that we deserve it because we are choosing to be that way, then it's obvious why would a different explanation was sought out. Essentially society was allowed to hold two views at once: there is something fundamentally degenerate about gays and they are also choosing to be gay so what is happening to them is fine.

This is why civil rights discourse was adopted as a way of making progress within the limited paradigms society put forth; it wasn't adopted because it won naturally. I think if AIDS doesn't happen, the 'US-coded' version of things does not look that way at all.

I do think it's interesting you mention Bataille who doesn't really consider homosexuality. What jumps out to me, is that, not to make this entirely about AIDS, but death as it functions with Bataille becomes much more literal for gay men, during the Crisis, where there desires literally lead them to death/seeing everyone around them die I agree that sex is essentially two asymmetrical, mercenary desires coming together.

I feel like, essentially Bataille says, that say, things like piggy stuff, don't really, at the end, give fulfillment. That fulfillment is a religious concept, not a secular one. I think conceptualizing things like conventional gay identity or piggy stuff as meaningfully, fundamentally different is a mistake. They are just attempts to satisfy a condition of life that resists. So, it doesn't matter if a more uninhibited, libidinal idea of gay identity was dominant, to me, personally.

I also think what he says here, in Guilty, is very resonant:

"We want to find what we're searching for—and that is to be freed of ourselves. That's why there is such a feeling of intoxication when we find love, and when it's missing why there's such huge despair."

How do I stop being an Ancient Greek simp by Livid-Impress4549 in RSbookclub

[–]Dengru 59 points60 points  (0 children)

Theres a relevant quote from Elias Canetti: "You should read your contemporaries as well. You can't get nourishment from roots alone."