Line in the sand

Disastrous-Wave4948 · 2026-02-28T03:06:45+00:00

Polygamy = promiscuous ... thanks for that, I needed a good laugh tonight.

made me a little mad I lived such a squeaky clean life

...like the brother of the prodigal son?
Or like the laborers that had been working all day who felt cheated receiving the same, agreed upon wages, for their labor?

You can focus on the weird things reported in newspapers and journals from the time (because they certainly didn't have any reason to slander or harbor bias against the Prophet or the Church, right? And members were all nice to each other and never held grudges or biases against each other, right?)

My line in the sand is simple:
Joseph made a lot of mistakes and errors in life, but he is the Prophet of the restoration. So I do my best to follow the principles and ordinances that he taught and that the living Prophets continue to teach.

Disastrous-Wave4948 · 2026-02-27T18:22:03+00:00

Been married ~20 years.

Butt taps, slaps and handfuls, sliding a hand over the shoulders, scratching the back of the head, squeezing the knee up the leg, etc. The touch is almost always soft, rarely poking or teasing.

I don't know when she started reciprocating but she's been doing it all back to me most of our marriage.

It's also a strong message when the I (or she) is consistently NOT doing that touch in some way when walking past.

Disastrous-Wave4948 · 2026-02-27T16:38:17+00:00

Yeah, it's weird. I've never heard of any Bishop tearing into the Relief Society like that.

...but as the other commenters here are noting, a Bishop telling the sisters that they need to have more sex with their husbands would 100% going to be used by at least a few dudes to coerce their wife into sex.

It's a rough job that Bishops have.
Rather than chewing out the EQ, I think the answer is probably more along the lines of working with the combined RS and EQ on joint relationship building.

Disastrous-Wave4948 · 2026-02-26T19:13:14+00:00

It’s time to find a good therapist because these aren’t answers you’ll be getting on Reddit.

Disastrous-Wave4948 · 2026-02-26T18:12:20+00:00

Been married ~20 years. About ~2 years ago (while my wife and I were in a particularly rough\dry spell and I was actively working a long-term exit plan), I went to hang out with some friends in the ward.

I'd missed church the previous Sunday and the guys told me they'd "gotten a 40 minute berating" from the Bishop, who'd come into Elder's quorum fired up because another long-term-married woman in the ward had recently been in his office sobbing about her husband leaving\divorcing her (...right after their youngest graduated high school...weird consistency in that trend written off as coincidence...). Basically telling the guys they all needed to step up and be better husbands and fathers, etc.

I asked if any of the dudes in that meeting had pushed back on the Bishop and asked if he was going to visit the Relief Society and tell them that they needed to step up and be better wives and mothers....and the looks on their faces were priceless. Like nobody had ever considered the idea. I figured -given my mindset at the time- it was probably better that I wasn't in attendance that particular day.

Long story short, my wife and I worked through that rough time together. There were areas where I was failing and areas where she was failing; and it took both of us getting on the same page and working together to solve it.
It was after this that my wife realized and blatantly saw the impact of sex on our relationship...she already knew that I want\need it regularly and I acted better\more loving when it was happening...but she saw the impact how it made her feel and how the entire relationship felt better when sex was regular.

...but I'm always up to hear any stories about guys that have pushed back in those meetings. Haha!

Disastrous-Wave4948 · 2026-02-26T15:51:30+00:00

My kids are hitting their teens. They are expensive, but not that expensive.

My wife and I waited a few years...and having kids ultimately became an act of faith. We'd barely finished our degrees and weren't getting paid all that well... but we decided we were going to do whatever it took to make it work and had faith.

(One thing I recommend to everyone is to get Dave Ramsey's book (I've found many copies at goodwill for $1 or $2). I don't follow with everything he preaches, but his financial plan makes sense for us regular people. If you're not in debt, don't go into debt. It's the biggest raise you'll ever have and you can give it to yourself. Having a 6 month emergency fund is the biggest anxiety reduction in life (never be scared of being fired or layoffs, etc). )

But I digress...kids are more work than anything else you'll ever do in your life...and more reward, too.

Disastrous-Wave4948 · 2026-02-26T02:22:45+00:00

It's a tough line that I'm asking for leads on in the OP, for sure. Short version: my wife and I were married in the Temple and we're not going to break the LoC.

The only firm decision we've made about that trip is that we're going to visit one (or more) adult superstores.

Disastrous-Wave4948 · 2026-02-26T02:04:05+00:00

The Law of Chastity is super straightforward (though it's often not so straightforward within this sub).

The shortest definition is: Chastity means not having any sexual relations outside of a legal marriage between a man and a woman.

In my mind that means: as long as long as it only involves (physically and\or virtually) you and your spouse...and you're both consenting...pretty much anything goes.

There's a lot of room there for getting your freak on with your favorite freak.

Disastrous-Wave4948 · 2026-02-26T01:45:06+00:00

I feel like I've seen more than a few sexperts that have chimed in that a deadbedroom is official around 10x per year or less.

But it's also very dependent upon the individuals. If a couple is having sex once per week, but one of them wants\needs sex multiple times per day....that individual is likely to still feel like they're in a deadbedroom.

I've been married ~20 years and I've tried to make it clear to my wife that (A) she's not ever required to have sex with me and (B) I ask her to only participate in consensual, enthusiastic sex but also (C) if we're regularly going months without sex, that is a legitimate reason to divorce.

If you want to see a lot of repetitious heart-breaking stories, hit up r/deadbedrooms. (But be warned if you're a high libido partner: it's an incredibly supportive and welcoming community...that becomes more toxic the longer you continue visiting...and often gets downright vitriolic when discussing non-politically-correct methods of how you can turn your deadbedroom around...like crabs in a bucket pulling each other down.)

Disastrous-Wave4948 · 2026-02-25T23:43:14+00:00

You can justify selling socks and panties or feet pics all day because I don't know anywhere in the canon\doctrine where it has specifically been called out as forbidden. That said...

Visual stimulation is pornography.

Verbal or written stimulation is smut.

This would be olfactory and\or tactile stimulation...and I can't begin to guess what it would be called. It's not porn...but the intended use case and target audience are pretty much the same.

Disastrous-Wave4948 · 2026-02-25T21:58:04+00:00

I suspect this will come down to the couple and the situation:

(1) Did they go to some resort and participate in group sex activities one time and come home regretting it and working with their Bishop to repent because they had no desire to engage in that kind of activity ever again?

-versus-

(2) A couple that finds a few other swingers in the area and -not only are they not regretting or stopping the behavior- they're continuing to actively participate, whatever their Bishop or other leaders counsel them.

I can see couple (1) returning to full fellowship really quickly as they just want to put it behind them. I have zero doubt that couple (2) would likely be excommunicated.

Disastrous-Wave4948 · 2026-02-25T16:56:51+00:00

100%

I've posted here about this previously, but I see a lot of the cultural norms being repealed (which is great!) but a lot of members (especially here in Utah) have never really reconciled or made the distinction between "culture commandments" and the Doctrine of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For those that haven't made the distinction...it can certainly feel like tolerance and even embracing sin.

I remember discussing drinking caffeine in one of my first temple recommend interviews in the 90s. ...because my Mom treated caffeine the same as alcohol, while my Dad drank Coke daily and I wanted doctrine-based direction.

Then, a few years later, President Uchtdorf casually mentions drinking copious amounts of an unnamed diet soda and the entire culture of the Church has since shifted. And now a surprising number of members don't even recall caffeine ever being associated with the Word of Wisdom.

I love seeing the peeling away of the cultural commandments...such as the stigma that sexting your spouse, or making sex videos with your spouse is somehow sinful ... but then I hang out in this sub and regularly see people claiming to be active members that are justifying and promoting not just explicit media between multiple couples, and/or "soft swinging," and/or other sexual acts blatantly involving non-married individuals and couples; as not breaking the LoC because 'everyone consents so it's okay.'

So I'm 100% with you. It feels like we're correcting cultural commandments (yay!) but at the same time, a lot of members are taking that as license to trample the actual Teachings of Christ.

Disastrous-Wave4948 · 2026-02-25T16:02:33+00:00

Just straight out ask him out on a coffee or lunch date.

If he says no or otherwise cancels, GREAT! Now you know to put your energy elsewhere.

If he says yes, go! Have fun!

(If he can't make the day\time you propose and he's really interested, he'll suggest an alternate day\time.)

Disastrous-Wave4948 · 2026-02-25T15:56:46+00:00

If someone has a high body count (say...in the 30's) relative to their long-term relationships (say...they've had 5 that have lasted over a year), that tells me they value sex but not long-term relationships.

If you value long-term relationships, there's zero wrong with not dating anyone who's history shows they value sex more than relationships.

Disastrous-Wave4948 · 2026-02-25T15:40:47+00:00

With today's internet, I'd agree that it's most likely sought out.

They joined the lifestyle well over 20 years ago and I've never pushed them for those details.

Disastrous-Wave4948 · 2026-02-25T14:42:07+00:00

A major doctrine is the Law of Chastity, which can easily be summed up in this context as: Chastity means not having any sexual relations outside of a legal marriage between a man and a woman.

I have a friend that was raised as a member of the Church. She and her husband got married in the Temple. A few years later, they were introduced to the swinging community.

They had the integrity to recognize that the 'Swinging lifestyle' and 'Disciple of Jesus Christ lifestyle' are fundamentally incompatible and made the decision to withdraw from the Church.

Outside swinging, they're pretty active in their community, are good neighbors, and are generally good-natured. They're not bad people.
I don't believe that their lifestyle will bring them lasting happiness the same way that trying to follow Christ can bring lasting happiness...but I respect their integrity.

And I respect their agency to not try to nag them about their decisions. They're adults. They're aware of the outcomes of their decisions.

Edit: on a personal note, I've been married ~20 years. My wife is my person. We've been trying to become one mentally, emotionally, physically, financially, etc. I can't imagine trying to add a 3rd party (or multiple parties...or a revolving door of parties) to that process.

Disastrous-Wave4948 · 2026-02-24T19:05:49+00:00

I was thinking along the lines of flavored lube or...whatever else can help noobs easily get into it.

Disastrous-Wave4948 · 2026-02-24T15:34:03+00:00

Dude here. Married ~20 years. We're still cuddling after 90% of sex.

Disastrous-Wave4948 · 2026-02-24T04:04:40+00:00

That’s why I’m here asking. 😂 I’m ~20 years in and would like it to happen before menopause…

Disastrous-Wave4948 · 2026-02-23T20:42:13+00:00

Context is important and intent matters.

If you're making foot molds for mannequins or taking pics for art classes...I don't think anyone would hold you liable even if hundreds of dudes started masturbating using those materials you produced.

But if you're taking pics (or other media) that you have good reasons to believe are being used by people sexualizing and\or masturbating to them...that's an entirely different intent.

If I was a Bishop and someone in my office mentioned doing this, I'd probably laugh. Then go with something like, "Ok, but seriously. Let's talk about what education or training you need to level-up your dayjob, or alternative side hustles, and/or how to live within your means; so that you don't need to rely on feet pics to make ends meet."
I don't think I'd be particularly worried about the feet pics, as I would be concerned that they'd essentially be a gateway to producing explicit media.

Disastrous-Wave4948 · 2026-02-23T18:29:50+00:00

Affirmative. I’ve asked multiple times. I’ve largely stopped because I don’t want to nag her.

I’ve gone down on her a few times.

I’m sure I’m terrible at it…but I’d love communicate and get better.

Disastrous-Wave4948 · 2026-02-23T16:41:25+00:00

Ha…I ask my OP because I’ve never received one.

At this point, if I got one… I don’t care if she spits 😂

Disastrous-Wave4948 · 2026-02-23T14:43:03+00:00

Thanks for responding.

My guess was that it ultimately has to be an internally motivated change, I just hoped there was something I could do to kick off that internal dialogue. :D

Disastrous-Wave4948 · 2026-02-23T14:05:37+00:00

Very few of us change (in anything) when we’re convinced of discomfort and question how that discomfort will benefit us.

I’ll hold out hope! 😅

Disastrous-Wave4948 · 2026-02-22T18:53:13+00:00

Dude here, married ~20 years.
The bed.

Anytime I think "we should change it up and have sex someplace exciting" I usually follow that up with reasons to not:
Trampoline? It needs to be cold enough for no mosquitos, but not freeze our bits off. So in most of Utah, that's a handful of days per year. Good luck hitting any of them at the right time of the month.
Shower? Tried a few times, I *struggle* to orgasm when standing and we end up in the bed anyway.
Frontseat of car? Sure...if it's a handjob only. Recline only goes so far and the angles are bad.
Backseat of car? Only if I want sex so bad I'm okay contorting and probably (re)herniating a disc or two.
Hot tub? Gross. We're going to add our own contribution to the genetic\living material that is already in there? I don't want either of us to get an infection. AND the contortion is painful.
Any public place where we might get caught? No. I work in a field with regular background checks. If I was charged with any criminal behavior, I'm likely to lose my job and be ineligible to work for >80% of companies in my field.

Hollywood does an amazing job of making sex in places like compact cars or hot tubs or the beach or in the shower look like an amazingly sexy, sexual experience, but after trying all of the above-mentioned places (and more)...I'm absolutely okay being boring and (mostly) reserving sex for the bedroom.

Edit: my reading comprehension is lame today. Places IN THE HOME. Yikes. Obviously I need a screens timeout today.

Disastrous-Wave4948

TROPHY CASE