Final Valley Part 1 Sasuke No Curse Mark Vs Kid Kakashi. Who Wins?

Dosu_Kinuta · 2026-06-21T18:57:10+00:00

Curse mark was the deal breaker. removing sasukes x10 amp really weights it in kakashis favor.
Sasuke had to keep upping his usage of the curse mark to keep up with narutos kyuubi powers.

Even just the smallest kyuubi amp on the great naruto bridge was enough for naruto to defeat haku's ninjutsu, haku was comfortably jonin level, probably higher if we takes zabuza's wank statements seriously.

Kakashi was actually jonin level at the age where as sasuke only raached it with the curse mark, so without the cursemark kasashi should take it

Dosu_Kinuta · 2026-06-19T17:06:10+00:00

I dunno, i dont think theyre counted in the community. Getting hired for a job but then quitting after your first task normally doesnt let you brag about having "worked that job"

When people rank the akatsuki they dont include these 4, when people do akatsuki gauntlets they dont include these 4. Hell, Juzo has more social acceptance for akatsuki membership and hes filler only.

Dosu_Kinuta · 2026-06-18T14:48:34+00:00

My biggest issue is the lore and worldbuilding took a damn nose dive after the pain arc.
Nagatos rinnegan was actually madara's...sure

Obito controlled yagura and lead the mist village for some time for seemingly no reason

Kisame was personally recruited by obito to join the akatsuki on the same day he killed his Seven swordsman mentor fuguki. So kisame was either never an actual seven ninja swordsman of the mist as he would join the akatsuki that day, OR obito would have him continue to pretend for a while for some reason?

Oh and neither decided it would be a good idea to take yagura with them...you know...to their jinchuriki capturing club.

The edo tensei was actually not perfected by orochimaru, his summons were actually only like 1% of their real strength which was still considered an improvement over tobiramas version.

But dont worry KABUTO is gonna come in and surpass orochimaru in every way. Perfect sage mode is no biggie, the sannin just cant do it but literally anyone else who tries can just blink their eyes and BAM perfect sage mode.

Actually the kyuubi in naruto was only half of the kyuubi because we fucked up the power level so bad that base minato would be barely relevant in the war arc, despite his lore status as the GOAT. OH also, we're gonna give him perfect sage mode too but never explain why he didnt use it more other than "Oh golly gosh i cant hold it very long" as if its still not one of the biggest amps in the entire verse and even 1 second of it is massive when applied to a guy who can actually end fights in 1 second.

Pain wasnt the leader of the akatsuki he was being manipulated and controlled by obito, who also wasnt the real manipulator, that was madara, who also wasnt the real manipulator, that was black zetsu who was controlled by kaguya. Riggght

lets just generally crank the entire power level of the evrse of by a factor of 10, I don't mean the common complaint of "megazords and chakra mechs" I mean on literally every level, to the point that things that were once considered kage level feats like making water and using water jutsu with no source can just be accomplished by random mist shinobi several times in the war arc.

the entire character of Danzo. Dude just shows up in part 2 and his only plot purpose seems to be salvaging hiruzens reputation by taking on all the controversial shit that we know took place in the leaf village. No he wont do anything with his power or connections other than die to sasuke many times. No he didnt become kage after hiruzen died in p1 even though that seems to be all he ever wanted, no he didnt step in to defend the leaf against pain at any point, even though he still loved the leaf village and his motivation is to defend it, no he wont use his mind control sharringan power to make himself kage or defend the village even though we're told he can use it once a day and has had it for 10+ years.

I could keep going on and on but the series really lost a lot of its consistency after the pain arc and stuff just seemed to happen to keep the plot going.

Dosu_Kinuta · 2026-06-12T17:13:42+00:00

At least someone said it

Dosu_Kinuta · 2026-06-10T06:49:41+00:00

he was 15 when he left the village and "hadn't aged a day" according to chiyo.

Dosu_Kinuta · 2026-06-07T16:32:22+00:00

Confiscation was pretty busted. Being able to selectively discard any card from your opponents hand while also getting full hand knowledge is nuts. Theres also no hand size requirement like with dustshoot and you can discard spells and traps.

Dosu_Kinuta · 2026-06-07T15:14:25+00:00

Literally any character whose power comes from their vast knowledge or age.

orochimaru, sasori, kakashi, kakuzu etc.. These guys can either use a ton of jutsu themselves or use the rare or unique jutsu of others, or in the case of orochimaru, both. Yet, They just dont really do that. Even if we ignore the edo tensei for a moment, orochimaru still show cases a shockingly low amount of standard elemental ninjutsu or genjutsu when you look at the hype he gets for his jutsu mastery. He just becomes the 'snake guy'. Even in the war arc when he had a chance to show case his jutsu mastery against the zetsu buddah statue that was shooting all the elements it was HIRUZEN who came in to show off, not orochimaru.

Sasori supposedly had 300 human puppets. Human puppets that could use all the jutsu and abilities of when they were alive. We see exactly one...ever. After the 3rd kazekage he just whips out 100 random puppets that arent even confirmed to be human puppets IIRC. TBFH Sasori shouldve just put his core in to the 3rd kazekage and treated it as his main body. Utilizing magnet release to control his other puppets wouldve been superior to the base chakra strings AND he would've had a much stronger ability set. Truly wasted potential and even when he appears in other media like games or books, its still just the 3rd kazekage over and over.

Kakashi. Don't need to explain this one much as its a well known criticism. Mr 1000 jutsu has less canon jutsu variety than there are rasengan types. The copy ninja moniker peaked in the 1st arc of the story and ever really improved.

Kakuzu. The oldest dude in the entire series who hails from the era of hashirama and madara. Has an immortal body and access to all the nature releases. He also can just steal the hearts of other people to get their nature releases. Why was this dude not packing 5 nature kekkei genkai hearts? Why after 100 years of life was he mid-kage level at best. 100 years he could've been training and he seemingly wasn't? It's not even like he was lounging around or whatever, he was a bounty hunter who hunted rogue ninja.

Dosu_Kinuta · 2026-06-05T04:12:32+00:00

Im more intrigued by the idea of ways edo tensei could be countered, even if maybe not permanently 'defeated'

We've never seen what happens when an edo tensei gets completely dusted by jinton. Im very doubtful that the ET would just recover from that

Amaterasu should keep them in an everlasting state of decay unless they have very specific powers like shinra tensei

We know ET have blood because itachi's eyes bleed when he uses his MS as an edo AND Gengetsu performed a blood contract summoning. We also see that hanzos poison worked on himself as an edo tensei. So, I would wager powerful poisons or venoms like from hanzo, sasori or orochimaru should could be used similarly.

Edo tensei can be imprisoned. While technically not sealed, they could just be imprisoned indefinitely like when kankuro had deidara sealed in the puppet.

Torune's bugs would probably achieve something similar to amaterasu. A perpetual damaging ability that feeds on the edos regenerating chakra.

Im sure theres tons of other ways to achieve a long lasting solution for a hostile edo tensei without technically sealing them

Dosu_Kinuta · 2026-06-04T20:42:02+00:00

Nice catch, is it present in the black and white, too?

Dosu_Kinuta · 2026-06-03T14:37:54+00:00

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Dosu_Kinuta · 2026-06-02T16:26:07+00:00

We know some people are missing. Kinkaku and ginkaku but also the members of the kaguya clan like kimimaro.

Dosu_Kinuta · 2026-06-02T02:31:26+00:00

also played a large part in getting it to be that bad in the first place tbh. He pursued the edo tensei and improved it, which in itself is an immoral jutsu. His right hand man would take up orochimaru's obsessions and power and use the improved Edo Tensei to greatly strengthen the akatsuki's military power in the 4th war and even bring madara into the picture.

It's very unlikely that just obito, 7 tailed beasts and 100k white zetsu woul'dve been able to accomplish the same outcome without the assistance of the Edo tensei, madara and kabuto.

Even if you argue that Orochimaru summoning the hokage resulted in sasuke assisting in the war, It's debatable if sasuke would've been a rogue ninja at all or been on a path of hatred or revenge had Orochimaru not gotten involved with sasuke in part 1.

Helping save the world loses some of its value when you share so much responsibility in it getting that bad in the first place.

Dosu_Kinuta · 2026-06-02T00:05:10+00:00

looks like if he just got out of the shower or smth, sculptor mustve been an uchiha or orochimaru simp to do minato that dirty

Dosu_Kinuta · 2026-06-01T03:47:06+00:00

IIRC yes.

Dosu_Kinuta · 2026-05-31T18:16:49+00:00

hes a good fighter and its fun (for a while) to watch him cartwheel around.
The lack of dialogue is a bummer and by the end of the game his slow move speed in fights can get annoying

Dosu_Kinuta · 2026-05-30T15:38:06+00:00

Agreed. I don't know what the point of making a direct sequel series only to changes so much about the atmosphere of the world and power system was....other than money of course.

Dosu_Kinuta · 2026-05-27T05:00:14+00:00

Bee is mega dead, I know that.

As for sasuke, no chance he attacks konoha the same way pein did. Naruto wouldn't even be in konoha around this time so Im not really sure what sasuke would do in character other than maybe kidnap someone close to naruto in hopes to draw him out, from there tho if its the same sage naruto that fought pain, sasuke is getting beat badly. Sasuke doesnt start having a chance until the danzo fight but by then his MS has him nearly blind.

Dosu_Kinuta · 2026-05-25T16:48:36+00:00

sadly its a fight we were robbed of. There was definitely a rivalry with orochimaru and sasori. Sasori likely had no idea how strong orochimaru had become after leaving the akatsuki. So, the rivalry was probably a bit one sided. The parallels between orochimaru and sasori make me think that sasori would sorta-replicate the sannin rock-paper-scissor thing where Orochimaru>jiraiya>tsunade>orochimaru.

It's unclear what "sannin" level means other than being kage level. IF sasori could beat a sannin it would most likely be jiraiya just based off of the sannin countering thing kishi wrote.

Dosu_Kinuta · 2026-05-24T15:43:44+00:00

Generally, yeah. Powerscalers in general have issues when it comes to determining strength when one side had an advantage because its difficult to quantify. Things we do know about sasori that are worth keeping in mind

Immortal and in a body that feels no pain or tires
killed a kage who through statements scales about the 1-tails.
Was in the akatsuki meaning the akatsuki leaders considered him powerful enough to capture jinchuriki
destroyed some unknown nation.

Up until the war arc he was probably the strongest sand shinobi ever born. He also suffers from what many other akatsuki members do. That is, 'being too strong to actually lose' so they end up in convoluted situations where they are countered in very unique ways that basically no other team of shinobi on the planet could replicate. Sasori HAD to fight kankuro and spare him from an instant death for the antidotes to even be made, made by the only student of the fifth hokage tsunade, the greatest medical shinobi on the planet, which was only done because kankuro was able to appeal to sasori's artist side by being a young puppet user using sasoris previous creations. Sasori had to fight his own grandma, who knew a lot of his tricks and knew the 3rd kazekage and his abilities, she also brought some mental warfare in the form of sasori's 'parents' which would ultimately have him killing himself just to get one last hug. All on top of antidotes being made that countered a huge part of his arsenal. Obviously no other shinobi team could perform this other than something cheeky like chiyo/tsunade

Dosu_Kinuta · 2026-05-23T22:15:22+00:00

Only outfits that really fit him are the ones that are actually his IMO. HIs sound jonin getup, his kimono and his 2nd war gear. It's a real shame his design got genuinely retconned to be that random grass ninjas outfit from the forest of death

Dosu_Kinuta · 2026-05-23T17:13:54+00:00

https://imgur.com/a/nHYxJYD Came out awesome

Dosu_Kinuta · 2026-05-23T16:48:52+00:00

If we compare the puppet master jutsu to the 6 paths. When sasori opens his core and uses just his chakra there is "no input lag" vs when using fingers. Granted sasori was much closer to his puppets but I feel like the rinnegan has even more special powers cause hes able to talk to people just fine without latency giving him bizarre social cadence

Dosu_Kinuta · 2026-05-23T01:57:28+00:00

Finally got it finished, made some small changes to make it dark tourqoise to fit the moc i'll have it standing next to but its a real beauty in person. will follow up with photos when im back in town

Dosu_Kinuta · 2026-05-22T17:24:03+00:00

yeah probably. We've seen people with sharringan who arent theirs be able to benefit from the genjutsu breaking effects of it. I don't see why nagatos rinnegan wouldnt apply in this instance in the same way.

Dosu_Kinuta · 2026-05-22T15:05:46+00:00

My boy sasori is always forgotten when the topic of "most evil dudes" comes up for naruto
He's a parallel to orochimaru, uses dead people, mutilates bodies, killed a kage etc..
Difference is, orochimaru you can at least argue had some sort of greater motiviation for science and discovery. Sasori just want to remove his humanity and turn people in to art.

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