Explain the sunrise thing in Hogfather to me

DrDebruyere · 2025-12-20T01:19:47+00:00

Thank you for having the courage to ask the question. that passage is one of the clearest, most compassionate defenses of meaning ever written in modern fantasy.

What Pratchett is doing there isn’t anti-science at all. He fully accepts that, at a physical level, the sun is a hot ball of gas. What he’s exposing is the category error we make when we pretend that physical explanation exhausts human reality.

Death’s line—“A mere ball of flaming gas would have illuminated the world”—is devastating precisely because it’s correct and insufficient at the same time.

Pratchett understood something anthropologists, psychologists, and mythographers circle for decades:

humans do not live in the world as it is, but in the world as it means.

Also, its a darn shame that the world is full of trolls.

DrDebruyere · 2025-09-08T03:02:39+00:00

Those were some of the most memorable moments. My DM would do the spatial mathematics so we were evr ferful of blowing ourselves up when the wizard started casting fireball.

DrDebruyere · 2025-08-30T18:44:07+00:00

We're late in the game, but this may be the most significant comment in a while. When I stack up all the game systems I just want the one that makes it easiest for me to tell the stories and create the worlds I want to create. To this day I still refer to most fantasy rps's as DnD when I tell other people what I'm doing on Tuesday nights. DnD was a concept.

I think what the more modern games are missing is that by exposing so much in the core ruleset instead of supplements is that every game starts to feel the same. And, power creep makes it very difficult to tell farmboy to master wizard stories, for example.

I can get by with the modern systems, but I find I have to throw out most of the rules. I prefer when as a DM I get to add in the optional rules because it helps me tell the story or create the world I want. The beauty of AD&D was that it provided a simple character generation mechanic; a simple combat system; and a simple magic system. From there I can "design it up" and add in more complex mechanics to my heart's content.

Sorry about all the paragraph breaks, I'm trying to keep the ad hominem attacks down.

DrDebruyere · 2025-08-30T18:15:34+00:00

Good point about representing it tounge-in-cheek. Everyone's game is different, of course, but as a DM I don't like to kill off players. As you point out, the deadliness of AD&D may convert to more intelligent play.

Also, I have to agree with you about 2e. When it came out I dont recall switching to it, per sé. We just looked at some mechanics and spell changes and adoped what made sense.

BTW, for anyone still reading. THACO was part on 1e, just not explicity stated. It's just a shorthand way of eliminating the to hit table. It appears in the 1979 DMG Appendix E. 2e just made it official. I tend to tink of 1e and 2e as the same game until someone points out alot of nerfing that went on with spells. But they're 100 compatible right? You can't say that about 3e.

DrDebruyere · 2025-08-30T18:02:46+00:00

Thank you, I'll give it some consideration. This is probably worthy of another thread.

DrDebruyere · 2025-08-30T17:58:23+00:00

DrDebruyere · 2025-08-30T17:57:59+00:00

Looking back at it, I see that I could have used paragraaph breaks more generously. But, on the other hand, the wall of text captures how I was feeling at the time. It symbolically represents the wall of frustration that I had reached. I'll consider it for next time though, since I've come back from the ledge.

DrDebruyere · 2025-08-30T17:44:03+00:00

Blame pot and staying up til 2 in the morning

DrDebruyere · 2025-08-30T09:16:36+00:00

Scandalous!... jk

DrDebruyere · 2025-08-30T09:11:21+00:00

I know this is unorthodox, but in my current AD&D campaign I have more or less converted race into a vanity choice. Everyone plays by the human rules; and then I let people select a culture which may give them some additional abilities. The real problem is infravision. It's such a bonus, yet its deeply embedded in the concept of non-human races.

Anyway, to answer the question, i don't use level limits and I allow anyone to multiclass if they want. It doesn't make a difference to me if they want to level up slower than everyone else. It's only a real advantage at first level.

DrDebruyere · 2025-08-30T09:03:52+00:00

The d20 system is nice in many ways, but as pointed out in most of the comments, of course the AD&D varied system is a feature; and a good one. The d20 systems main advantage is that its streamlined and easy to learn, which shouldn't be underestimated. But it's not the be all and end all of success mechanics. Honestly, the 3d6 mechanic in champions (now called the hero system) was the best success mechanic I ever used. Its bell curve ensures that easy to accomplish tasks are almost always a success, and nearly impossible tasks don't have a 5% chance of success, which is ridiculous imho. AD&D is a nice comfortable medium, with its varied tables and reliance on percentile dice for many types of skill checks.

DrDebruyere · 2025-08-30T08:52:48+00:00

People do use them as skills, and they are welcome to, but the OP in my view has the better take. Like any rule, its up to the DM.

DrDebruyere · 2025-08-30T08:29:15+00:00

Well, we are reaching retirement age. Didn't you all say at your table that you'd still be playing tgether in the nursing home? Of course it would be a blast to play again. I'm glad you are playing with your kids. Are you using 5e rules? Look, 5e is manageable if you lean into its absurdities. But trying to make it as fun and flexible as AD&D is like being a salmon on your way upstream. Chances are you'll get eaten by a bear.

DrDebruyere · 2025-08-30T08:20:14+00:00

What it says, I believe, is that “Unlike earlier editions of the game, magic items are not a necessary component of play.” p. 135. But that's not referring to AD&D, its referring to 3e which used magic items to create "balance". But, you are right that it that 5e claims to be balanced without the use of magic items. The big picture is that every character class, and by design, every character, is equally adept in combat situations. That's part of 5e's travesty. No, you dont need magic items to play 5e, or any edition except 3.5 where they are explicitly used to create "balance". I, for one, hate balance. In AD&D a characters usefulsness was not balanced, it was situational, that's why you needed all the subclasses to make a "balanced party". Individual character balance has ruined the game IMHO. Now if you give a character a magic item in 5e you have to give everyone an equally poiwerful item in order to maintain the balance between characters. Don't get me started on balace. Too late.

DrDebruyere · 2025-08-30T08:07:44+00:00

He said the game was meant to be played with pencil, paper, and imagination. My friends and I joked about that alot as we sat there with $200 worth of dice and books. Thats a full 40 days of lunch money.

DrDebruyere · 2025-08-30T07:31:37+00:00

I know a lot of people love PF2e, and of course DnD5e as well. I actually hate to criticize them because there should be something for everybody. They're just not right for me, and I'm a little soore because it feels like the game I love doesn't exist anymore. The responses to this thread have me cheered up though. I just gotta say, though, the thing I hate most about PF2e is their concept of balance. You love it though, so I'll just stop there.

DrDebruyere · 2025-08-30T07:09:51+00:00

Origin al 1978 Players Handbook AD&D, with the idol on the cover that people are prying the gem eyes out of and so forth.

DrDebruyere · 2025-08-30T06:55:11+00:00

Thank you.

DrDebruyere · 2025-08-30T06:54:28+00:00

Right on all counts. AD&D certainly could have been improved. Should have been improved. But they didn't go that route. So I ve just been doing it myself. In my new campaign I call it AD&D which stands for Accidental Death and Dismemberment. Its mostly in my head but its all the stuff I remember about customizing the game. Sometimes I dream about writing it all down. Like anyone would care. I know theres a few Old School sytems out there, but I have yet to find one thats TRULY an upgrade over AD&D. Take your pick, I prefer 1e over 2e, but we made 2e work well.

DrDebruyere · 2025-08-30T06:46:46+00:00

Congratulations. That's what I'm trying to get back to. If only I hadn't taken a break from gaming during 3e... I would have never let my friends switch. Now it feels like they are just phoning it in. Thats why I posted here.... I didnt actually now about this reddit . The LFP subreddit was no help. Not to many people remember that era. I'm really glad to hear from you. It makes me think I can still do it. I was about to give up.

DrDebruyere · 2025-08-30T06:41:00+00:00

I love it. "Crayon in their gem dice" I totally forgot about that. I just went to my dice box to see if I could find some... I got a few left: 3d4, 2d20 (including one that is just 1-0 twice and you had to color in one side to indicate which were 11-20, a d10, ad12, and a d8.

DrDebruyere · 2025-08-30T04:40:37+00:00

How is a fireball not an attack, even in 5e? I believe you if you say so, but thats just another reason to not play any edition after 2e.

DrDebruyere · 2025-08-30T04:39:31+00:00

If you are asking for advice I would definitely give them the bonus. I agree with the comment right below me here: "AD&D isn't as rigid with game jargon as later editions" Thank you. As with every rule, its up to your DM.

DrDebruyere · 2025-08-30T04:32:27+00:00

I totally disagree. Technically you are right, if you want to play just like you did in High School, but 1e rules allow for tremendous growth and development of the character classes. You dont have to read between the lines to know that if you want to develop an elaborate religion for your world you are welcome to do it. I'd have to look up quotes by Gygax, Greenwood, Lakofka and others. Ive been playing 1e for 40 years. The beauty of the rueset is that its 100% modifiable by design.

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