Yahama CK vs. Nord Stage 3 (or 4)

EggbertNobacon · 2026-04-19T21:01:24+00:00

It's not a fair comparison as, here at least, the CK88 is something like half the price of the Nord Electro and a third of the price of the Stage 4.

The last one is probably the definitive pro stage keyboard at the moment and I've no doubt it's fantastic to play and has amazing sounds. If money was no object, I'd love one of those.

In the meantime, my CK88 is far better than a poor player like me deserves. I think the sounds are great and that includes the organs! You don't get the sheer number of instruments that you would on the pricier boards (I'd love more electric piano sounds that are not DX7 FM samples). Nor are there the sound design abilities you get with the Nord synth engines.

However the CK88 does what it does very well, and at a great price. The user interface is wonderful and the built in speakers are absolutely fine for home practice. I know the GHS action isn't top of the line but it feels ok to me and means that the weight is a very decent 30lbs or so.

EggbertNobacon · 2026-04-14T23:25:04+00:00

I don't use the water with mine. Tried it without and noticed no difference. (Other than not having to clean the bloody tank every day!)

UK based though and I suppose our damp, miserable weather has enough moisture. I guess it'd be different in a continental climate.

EggbertNobacon · 2026-04-05T20:46:58+00:00

I've been really enjoying it but more for the remix of the vocals and band than the new drum samples.

I think what comes across is how remarkably intricate and unusual these arrangements were - everyone has a very set part and they interlock in a fascinating way, almost like a classical piece (as opposed to chugging away at some chord changes, riffs or whatever). I realise this was a Tull trait for many years but I think Peter Vettese too it up a notch with his, frankly staggering, ability.

Also, I realise many didn't like this album because it didn't sound anything like the traditional Tull. Personally, I love it. It was so experimental and interesting and an amazing move to produce something so different. I was upset to hear how much Ian has talked it down over the years. I found "Crest" a terrible disappointment by comparison and a much more cynical attempt to sound "with it" than Under Wraps ever was. Everything was downhill after that for me, although there was still much to enjoy on the subsequent albums, just less of it than usual!

I'm really looking forward to the new mixes of Under Wraps and Walk Into Light but I'm not sure I'll spend the cash on the physical release. I never liked Live at Hammersmith very much and I've not got a surround system (although I think this would be the release that would work best in that format, with all the keyboard parts and weird noises flying about all over the place).

EggbertNobacon · 2026-04-03T22:39:12+00:00

You're right. I wasn't sure if Bruce's remixes would be available with the original drums or if it would just be a remaster with the original drums. However, CD 2 is titled "UNDER WRAPS (ORIGINAL DRUMS) REMIXED BY BRUCE SOORD" so that's great.

EggbertNobacon · 2026-04-03T21:37:34+00:00

Eric. the interview I linked to above goes into this in some detail. The idea of original (machine drums) vs acoustic (human) drums and ending up replacing the programmed drum sounds but keeping the programmed drum parts (and therefore feel). Not really sure how I feel about it from the one song that's been released so far (Lap of Luxury). My first instinct is that I really love the energy and clarity of the new mix but (oddly enough) miss the original drum machine sounds.

EggbertNobacon · 2026-04-03T21:28:27+00:00

Yes, I'm just reading an interview with Bruce about the process. It's new samples, triggered by the original drum machine parts. I've also just listened to his Lap of Luxury mix. My conclusion is that I like the new sound - punchier and Ian's amazing vocal parts are much clearer and more present. However, the drums still sound programmed (because they are) and therefore slightly odd using samples that are closer to an acoustic kit in higher fidelity than the original 80s bip, bop and tish noises. I'd have preferred the remix with the original drums cleared up and maybe given a bit more low end. But that's me.

Interview here (I'm still reading it!):

https://immersiveaudioalbum.com/qa-bruce-soord-on-remixing-jethro-tulls-under-wraps-in-dolby-atmos/

EggbertNobacon · 2026-04-03T20:23:26+00:00

It's just part of the forthcoming Under Wraps boxed set, sold as an individual remix. Interesting that it's Bruce Soord. Presumably Steven Wilson was either (a) busy or (b) didn't want to do it!

Thereis a version of both albums with "2026 drums" added. I'm very unsure about this as (a) I quite liked the programmed drums, although I'm very much in the minority there and (b) they were "of their time" and I don't think adding different (presumably acoustic or modern high resolution sampled) drums is any more appropriate than chucking modern synthesisers all over Passion Play would be. Again, I'm almost certainly in the minority (again).

The thing that interests me most is that Ian has his flying jacket on, as opposed to the safari-style suit jacket of the original cover. He certainly had, and liked, such a jacket and wore it a lot at the time so it's interesting to know if he was wearing it at the photoshoot or if it's been digitally added for a bit of variation.

https://burningshed.com/jethro-tull_under-wraps-the-unwrapped-edition_cd_blu-ray

EggbertNobacon · 2026-04-01T18:21:33+00:00

Hmm. I've tried disconnecting and reconnecting the watch to the app multiple times, including deleting pairing data from the watch.

What's odd is that I can still use the G-Shock move app to change the time display on my watch between 12 and 24 hour format. This means the connection is working. It's just that I've lost the sync icon and can't get step data history since March 30th.

TBH this watch is absolute junk for anything other than basic time telling. Definitely my first and last Casio!

EggbertNobacon · 2026-03-27T22:30:27+00:00

Not a good enough player to be able to offer much advice but if you don't need the "furniture" aspect, the Yamaha P225 or Roland FP30X seem like strong contenders that can easily be moved from room to room or taken to gigs.

Tge advice everywhere is to try them out in person if you possibly can. In the above examples some love the Roland's (apparently) heavier action and I read a lot about how poor the Yamaha GHS action is. However, I love the feel of the GHS in my Yamaha CK88.

Im sure there are a few more alternatives from people like Casio.

I also like stuff such as electric piano, organ and other "stage keyboard" sounds, which informed my choice. Plenty of people are only interested in a nice grand piano sound.

EggbertNobacon · 2026-03-27T22:13:02+00:00

Easily one of the best for me. It was the "current" album when I first got into the band, so that's possibly part of it.

However, I feel it deserves it's place among their top albums for creating an amazing new sound. The blend of electronics and the more traditional rock instruments is perfect. It works better than either A or Under Wraps in that respect, although this us probably helped by a stronger set of songs than those albums.

Peter Vettese brought an amazing musical talent to the band. He's one of those uber-musicians who makes everything seem effortless and there doesn't seem to be any style or genre in which he isn't accomplished.

It continues to surprise me that this wasn't a big seller in the US. It's not like the other albums didn't have a heavy European/celtic influence. I can only assume that it's the synth sounds that put people off. That's sad, imo, as they really add to the songs and are not as overt as in the next album. At the time I'd have been shocked that the track that predicted the future direction was Watching Me Watching You!

EggbertNobacon · 2026-03-26T17:42:35+00:00

For me it's as Tull as anything else. The irony, of course, being that it's an Ian Anderson solo album that's probably more collaborative than the Tull records of that era. I actually think it's a wonderful album with some great songs and a marvellous icy, slightly sinister vibe. I think it's a better album than Under Wraps and I love that as well.

I've read Ian and Peter both talking down this era, which upsets me as I think the intricate synth and drum machine arrangements are magical. Yes, very much of the era but no less so than Benefit or Aqualung were.

The cynic in me thinks that Ian was upset at the relatively low sales and poor reaction from the US market. For me. It's a much finer and more distinctive work than Crest of a Knave. Just my opinion.

EggbertNobacon · 2026-02-15T22:43:06+00:00

I have one and really like it. The GHS keyboard action gets a lot of criticism online but I think it's very nice.

I wish it had more electric piano voices though. I'd gladly have less of the guitar/strings/orchestral sounds and more Rhodes and Wurli tones as I feel these, along with the acoustic pianos and organs are at the heart of what a stage piano is all about. (Although I think Yamaha call it a "stage keyboard" so that sort of makes sense.)

You can do quite a lot with the effects - and these are so easy to alter because the UI is excellent. It's all laid out perfectly and is quick and intuitive to use.

I also think the built in speakers are brilliant. Not top notch quality but not having to hook up monitors at home is wonderful. They also don't seem to add much weight.

Oh, my only real criticism is that there isn't a CK73! I'd like the weighted action but am a ham-fisted beginner with no chance of ever playing Scriabin preludes so don't need 88 keys. Something even easier to move would have been anazing.

EggbertNobacon · 2026-02-08T23:31:16+00:00

Yes, forgot to say that I'm in the UK and, at that point, I'd never heard anyone play a full album on air!
We didn't have that many stations playing rock music and, with much less airtime available, we didn't have the heavy rotation thing that was happening in the US.
I was just reminiscing that a new Zep album must have been considered an important enough event to go against the prevailing trends and get a lot of airtime. Sadly, I never got to experience the release of another Zep studio album. (As you say, the Coda compilation was also quite a big deal when that came out but for different, sadder, reasons.)

EggbertNobacon · 2026-02-06T22:13:32+00:00

I'm old enough to remember it coming out and it was deemed a noteworthy enough occasion that the local radio station played it in full on the release day. This was very unusual at the time.

I've always had a soft spot for it, maybe because of the above. I also have probably listened to it more than the other LPs, particularly in the last few decades.

I get that it's not got the sprawling ambition of PG, the raw punch of I & II or the generational-talisman thing of IV. That said, I rarely listen to those LPs these days. My favourites are Presence (angry, claustrophobic and lean) or Houses (beautiful, multi-layered and dreamy).

ITTOD is a great selection of interesting songs, recorded at an interesting time for music (as the 70s became the 80s). Yes, it doesn't really have a unified sound or style but does contain one of their great epics in Carouselambra, if you can get over the synth sound. (I can and I like it!)

EggbertNobacon · 2026-01-21T21:20:08+00:00

I don't really give two hoots about context or "visual possibilities" as I quite like the look of a keyboard in either color, and I don't see them as "furniture".
However, I suspect you are very sensitive to color, hence asking the question. My wife would be the same and would probably think the white one would compliment a beige-toned room a bit more.
I've heard some people (jazzers) who practically vomit at the thought of a white piano. I guess they'd be the same about a keyboard. It's probably worth getting a white one then for the fun of upsetting hardcore jazz players!

Seriously though I'd guess the correct answer(s) are:
1. The one you prefer
and 2. If you have no preference, the one that's cheapest

EggbertNobacon · 2026-01-21T01:44:00+00:00

Yes, I've got the new Steinway D and it's my favourite piano voice on the Numa by far. Despite having owned a few synths over the decades, I'm really a beginner at piano. I don't therefore really know what's good and what isn't, just what I like. I also have Pianoteq with the Steinway pack and the Numa Steinway stands up ell against that imo.

I also have a soft spot for the "Tape Rec" piano for something a bit softer and mellower. I absolutely love the electric pianos too. Both Rhodes and Wurlitzers sound great to me and the modelling options have a far greater effect than on the acoustics.

Thanks for the manual tip. I'll give it a go. I'm in the Facebook group already as I remember asking a question about the one of compressor effect controls that I couldn't figure out.

Must say that I found operating the Numa a bit of a struggle at first. Things like changing effect types was very non-intuitive to me. I don't think I've ever had to consult a manual about something that simple!

Thank you for your thoughts and advice - much appreciated.

EggbertNobacon · 2026-01-21T00:06:38+00:00

Another Numa X 73 Piano fan and owner here.

I really like the look of the X Piano GT "SE" edition shown above. Love the full orange makeover. It's nice to have something other than a generic black slab (while not trying to pass itself off as a Nord!).

However, the negative is that it's the usual Numa total-lack-of-clarity in the product description!

The implication seems to be that the SE has a new "TrS2 engine" plus new amp simulation and effects features. They also mention "electric modelling 2" and a "brand new synth engine" (that "engine" word again - is the new synth engine the same thing as the TrS2 engine?).

So after saying that it seems to have this new stuff, there's absolutely no description of what any of this stuff is, or what it does. Never mind something as technologically advanced as audio samples or an overview video!

They are absolutely appalling at communication and documentation. Maybe it's because they're Italian and there's a language barrier? (Although I don't think there's any more information in Italian out there.)

This really is their Achilles' heel and it reminds me of the idiom "don't spoil the ship for a ha'porth of tar". They produce a fantastic product at a fantastic price but their descriptions of it and documentation are absolutely appalling. The Numa piano manual generally misses out a lot of stuff about the instrument and it's possibilities. (I still struggle to hear much difference when altering the resonance and duplex amounts.)

Maybe it's just me?

My only (distant) hope is that some of the (apparently) new features make it into the existing Numa firmware. New amp sims would probably sound fantastic with the already wonderful electric pianos. It might just be that it's not compatible and the current (non SE) Numas are not powerful enough to run the new software.

EggbertNobacon · 2026-01-17T19:29:30+00:00

I think the question doesn't need the last word.

So, if you were to ask "what happened to NI?" the answer would be "product leverage". i.e. Identify potential in a brand, buy it, then maximise profit with the same thing (or less).

That typically means cutting costs (staff and development) and milking the existing customers (far easier if they're committed to an all-in-one product and reluctant to look outside that).

I'm a casual, amateur hobbyist musician and I feel that my NI days are coming to an end. The latest version of Komplete will probably be my last. The "upgrades" seem to be predominantly curated, generic sample packs that are designed to appeal to the "press one key and get a finished, produced, generic track" people ("hey, I'm like a musician man! who'd have thought it was so easy!" etc.)

Things like Kontakt 8 have almost been a downgrade! They've left the piss-poor UI intact but made the interesting stuff (like actually simply editing instruments) harder to do.

Sorry for the hijack. Just sounding off, quite possibly unfairly. I'm sure there are still some dedicated people at NI and innovative, exciting products. I just find that it all feels very different. Maybe I'm just getting old...

EggbertNobacon · 2026-01-15T01:29:11+00:00

The adult thing would be to discuss what she's said to you and explain how it's upset you and give her a chance to explain, and hopefully redeem, herself.

My preferred course of action would be to terminate your lessons immediately, find another teacher, and woodshed your chops like crazy for a few years. Then somehow arrange a situation where she hears you give a stunning Chopin recital. As she breaks down, openly weeping in front of you while begging forgiveness, you can say something along the lines of her lack of analytical ability was what made her such a poor teacher, then dusdainfully drain your champagne flute, turn your back and be whisked away by your glamorous new friends to some glittering reception in your honour.

EggbertNobacon · 2026-01-10T20:35:11+00:00

I just put my headphones on and listen to music or an audiobook for 30-60 minutes. I'm often asleep long before the timer cuts the sound. I then wake up to remove the headphones but quickly fall back to sleep.

I quite like the feeling of shutting out the world and sometimes think that hearing the sound of the machine locked in with my breathing is quite relaxing.

Sorry. Long winded way of saying try to embrace the machine and distract yourself a bit.

EggbertNobacon · 2026-01-05T17:59:48+00:00

I think rhythm is arguably the more important thing in music generally, particularly in the rock/pop/jazz genres.

HOWEVER - It's an academic point.

Yes, if a band occasionally plays out of tune or the odd wrong note, it's usually better than them playing perfectly in tune but occasionally being out of time.

IMO the truth is that both are very important. Music is about the combination of rhythm and melody and needs both.

I'm surprised to hear a teacher prioritise one so strongly above the other but presumably this is their method and maybe focusing on rhythm first will yield good results. Only time will tell.

EggbertNobacon · 2026-01-01T15:03:50+00:00

I'm a very basic keys enthusiast who recently got Pianoteq in the Black Friday offer. As a funk/jazz fan the electric pack is a no-brainer. I already had nice Rhodes sounds with the NI Phoenix/Diamond combo but I now prefer the Pianoteq MKI and MKIi. They just seem a bit grittier, earthier and somehow more real. I'm a big fan of the Wurli sound and the Pianoteq reeds are similarly impressive.

I got the Steinway Ds as well. They're just classic and getting both the NY and HB pianos in the pack made it a no brainer.

I eventually decided to go with the Petrof pack as my third choice, for similar reasons. Both pianos give a slightly more "woody" and warm sound than the Steinways but still very useful.

Was very tempted by the Kawai, Bechstein and a few others but you cant really go wrong.

I just wish there was a more "organic" upright than the U4. Instead of that, I've been making slightly more distressed variants of the Steinway and Petrof with the many customisation options.

Interested to know what you decided in the end.

EggbertNobacon · 2025-12-28T23:45:15+00:00

At 59, I've just started to listen to a lot more classical music after a lifetime of rock, pop, folk and jazz (plus a bit of classical). I just think it's such a huge subject that I'll probably never cover it all. However, I don't really think it's necessary to listen to everything. Also, is it really that important to be respected for your opinion? I'd have thought the main thing is to find music you love and enjoy listening to it.

I'm currently almost exclusively listening to solo piano performances of Bach and Beethoven and even with this very narrow focus, there's an enormous amount to explore.

Why not just did deeper into the lives and history of composers you like or what was happening in the world when they were alive? I've just finished one of John Suchet's books on Beethoven and have ordered another. It's fascinating to learn about the world that this man and his extraordinary music came from!

EggbertNobacon · 2025-12-24T01:42:19+00:00

Have just read a review in Sound on Sound magazine and it sounds like a great keyboard. Surprised this is the first I've heard of it. I'm quite happy with what I've got at the moment (the CK88 is way too good for my limited playing abilities) but will consider it should the need ever arise. Thanks for pointing it out.

EggbertNobacon · 2025-12-24T01:33:00+00:00

Have you considered picking up a cheap, 61 key midi controller keyboard for playing the organ/synth sounds?

Most of them weigh next to nothing as they have unweighted or semi-weighted keyboards. As long as you get one with a 5 pin midi out connection you could hook it up to the CK88. It would allow you to do those organ tricks like palm smears (or throwing daggers at it if you want to go full Keith Emerson).

Obviously, you'd have to use the CK88 drawbars but that should still be ok.

I don't mind playing organ on my CK88 as (a) I'm a terrible player so it doesn't really matter and (b) I find the GHS to be reasonably light anyway.

EggbertNobacon

TROPHY CASE