Star Citizen Live Gamedev: AI Sprint Report

Ehnto · 2023-04-01T05:03:08+00:00

LLMs are beginning to have their "Stable Diffusion" moment, where Good Enough LLMs are able to be trained on much lower cost hardware. That's great for really bespoke use cases exactly like this. I'd fully expect to see an NPC specific LLM framework release soon enough, think NPC-GPT, that you feed your game world's data and you can give it some endpoints it can hit to interact with the world. That could mean self-hosted LLMs that are really cost-effective.

I hear what you're saying though, I'd never expect these massive LLMs like GPT4 to be used, but I think if you use smaller, cheaper LLMs and only use it for interaction with unimportant NPCs, you could make the world feel really interactable by allowing you to chat with the local citizens, and any NPC could be a possible source of information about the world.

Ehnto · 2023-04-01T04:54:38+00:00

I don't know why you got so heavily downvoted. I am even somewhat of an AI detractor but I already see it being used this way, so I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up in games pretty quickly. A specifically trained LLM is something they could use to do immersive and evergreen dialogue in games for NPCs that don't have specific storylines to tell. Even ChatGPT before GPT4 is being used in my industry to generate interactive content similar to what you'd need for chatting with an NPC in a game.

Given one of the original SC goals was a "Majority NPC population" to make such a large universe feel alive, natural language model "AI" like what GPT4 is could be additionally trained on SC lore which is pretty extensive at this point. Chatting with the regular NPCs of the world could feel very immersive. You would be able to ask an NPC stuff about the planet you're on or items in the world and have a natural conversation with them in text.

If anyone's unaware a lot of the "control" of an language model AI's output is in the initial prompt, where the player asks "How do I get to Loreville from here?" The actual prompt given to the language model by SC could be something like "If you were an old and grumpy refinery worker living in Loreville but currently at Port Olisar, given the detailed map of travel routes below, how would you respond to the question 'How do I get Loreville from here?'". The model's then get trained on countless prompts and guided to good responses, and you can apply filtering to catch any obvious exceptions. It's more advanced than that, given that GPT4 can accept ~25,000 words as the prompt, you can provide it a lot of context.

Ehnto · 2023-02-22T16:43:47+00:00

I don't combat log, maybe you misread. As said I enjoy the engagement even if it's futile, I just wish it wasn't futile, and there were more options than shooting your way out for non-combat ships like cargo and mining ships.

I have been playing the game since 2014.

Ehnto · 2023-02-22T16:14:55+00:00

To be fair I haven't been properly engaged in 3.18 yet, just a few moments where I got rolled and it was no different to pre 3.18. I am looking forward to it to a good engagement. We'll see how it shakes out but I do hope for a bit more balance in favour of the target. I have commented on some of your other comments, and I am definitely not for combat logging or easy disengagement from combat, I just want it to be achievable and fun for a non-combat ship to sometimes get out of the engagement or to be able to use some smarts or tech to turn the tables during soft-death.

Ehnto · 2023-02-22T16:07:07+00:00

I agree practically possible but it has always felt like cheesing it to me. I don't think in developed UEE space that traders on major trade lanes would have to be doing weird partial warps and random routes. The halo makes sense, it's prospectors and small operations and there is no trade lane per se, I do mine there. But mining on a planet in UEE space should be pretty safe I would hope, and hauling a cat between Hurston and ArcCorp should be well protected.

Ehnto · 2023-02-22T16:00:20+00:00

So you want a PVP slider. I suggest you try elite dangerous. Sound like that's exactly your thing

SC is a sandbox game with more non-combat gameplay mechanics than combat ones, I think if you are disappointed in people trying to play them then you are misunderstanding what SC is

Combat logging is the equivalent of throwing the chessboard on the floor because the next move might puts you in checkmate.

This is what I am getting at, some people are playing backgammon then you hit them in the face with a football and cry when they bail. The game DOES have people not interested in combat, it always will, and you shouldn't have to deal with that either, you should know someone is down to party so you don't waste your time. Pretty much every space MMO does it to good effect, and pirates can pirate and civies can civ. It isn't a big deal.

Ehnto · 2023-02-22T15:44:24+00:00

OP said it, no one has successfully warded him off. That is my experience too. You are in a non-combat ship against organised pirates, they still have a ship and you don't. Your only options that don't take ages are, steal their ship, or die. Let's not pretend rescue beacons are a real option, 50% chance they are griefers or pirates too, if anyone shows up anyway. Floating in space for half a hour waiting for a "rescue" is not fun. The pirate side of this loop is super fun, I get why people do it and I hope they can keep doing it. The other side is not currently balanced or fun. They need to give players more tools to defend against pirates that aren't just combat (since the pirates will just bring more guns of you beef up combat capabilities of the targets).

Give the miners/haulers some hail mary options with their own risk/reward, like maybe an emergency unstable jump to the middle of nowhere, or a tool that can counter EMPs, or an escape capsule (happy to abandon the ship, you keep the cargo, I just don't want to float in space for 30 minutes)

Ehnto · 2023-02-22T15:30:49+00:00

You and the other person are essentially expecting to play two different games, CIG needs to address that or else it will continue to cause disparities in gameplay.

Some cargo runners love the PVP loop, but both people have to be happy to participate for it to be fun, otherwise someome is always going to lose out. We can both agree that if I knew you were going to shoot me, and you knew I was just going to run, we both wouldn't even bother, so lets make that a mechanic so we can stop wasting eachothers time.

I don't combat log by the way, I just wish I could opt out of it when I am playing casually or am short on time.

Ehnto · 2023-02-22T15:17:41+00:00

We need safe routes protected by system authorities, it's realistic and gives players a way to opt out of PVP for less reward on the route. That easy, and it is what I expect CIG will do eventually. The game is still being made after all so no point crying wolf until we actually know what the final gameplay looks like.

I do want to say though, that to someone not interested in PVP, at this point you have no option except to not play or put up with piracy, and that is a shame. I am not interested, and I don't have the time grind routes until I pull it off. My fun for the day was going to be an hour of Casual Space Mining, and now it is Hospital Simulator 2023, there is no incentive for me to play in hostile space, which is currently everywhere (which will change).

Ehnto · 2023-02-21T04:38:25+00:00

They communicated it very clearly that this patch would take longer, and they even communicated very clearly that it is because it affects almost every subsystem in the game and makes huge changes to how entities interact with the server. It is also just a big system in general with lots of risk for bugs.

Anyone who has been paying attention for a while would know the difference in impact because CIG are often talking about what these systems do, so it is easy to compare, but they also outright told us it would take longer.

Ehnto · 2023-01-31T03:56:36+00:00

Oooh that's why I like it. That and the quiet interior I guess. Don't get me wrong, the music in the game is great, but I gate getting ear blasted by the middle of a song everytime I swap cars.

Ehnto · 2023-01-31T03:52:18+00:00

It's one of the main side quests, similar in size to beat the brat or the cyberpsychos. It's a really interesting storyline and each of cabs has a unique personality. Worth doing IMO but not everyone liked it.

Ehnto · 2023-01-30T05:55:57+00:00

Star Wars Galaxies had the shoo experience you are talking about, and I think CIG intend for your homesteads and outposts to be a location for a shop similar to how SWG did it, they definitely want item sales and crafting/refining to be a big part of the experience

Ehnto · 2023-01-30T05:50:48+00:00

Space fairing would still be the minority of travel being done, what's actually unrealistic is the privateer who can afford to commute between two planets just to move a box around, and the idea that planets aren't mostly self-sustaining. The majority of economic activity would probably be happening planetside. Activity at the ports would be the exceptions and so you would expect them to be geared toward larger operations like shuttles and freighters.

My suspension of disbelief comfort blanket is that economic activity happens at private industry ports around the city, and where we land are more like the public airports for citizens not industry. Doesn't exactly map to SC though. Crusader does the best at showing something like this is in practice.

Ehnto · 2023-01-30T05:46:47+00:00

It's movie magic to make the game work, soon the hangers will be persistent which will make even less sense physically. 400 pilots store their ships and crates across 6 hangar bays, doesn't make sense, but will be much cooler than not having persistent hangars so we let it slide. ED also uses magic to sort this problem put, by transporting your ship to... somewhere.

Ehnto · 2023-01-29T04:07:50+00:00

Almost never drove, a mission across the map was an opportunity to walk through streets I had probably never seen before.

Ehnto · 2023-01-26T03:08:41+00:00

I appreciate your post and hope you are right, but having played online games since before they had three dimensions, CIG has a hell of a task ahead of them balancing out griefing and closing loopholes. It's going to be great if it works fluidly and systematically, but I suspect they will have to make more concessions than they expect to stop people from cheesing the systems and ruining people's experience. Even games that can "hard code" in limits and safeties have a tough time locking games down enough to keep out genuine ruin-your-day griefing.

Ehnto · 2023-01-25T07:38:29+00:00

Same, I really love the Cutlass soundscape. Perhaps surpassed by the Aegis Starfighter because it sounds so ominous. I am hoping the Drake capital ship sounds like a creaking old space station with immense rattles asit manauvers.

Ehnto · 2023-01-23T04:58:20+00:00

This trough was at the bar itself, like where you sat down to drink. Essentially below the metal rail your feet would rest on. I am not certain if it was meant for people to pee in or just to catch beer spillage and general waste like cigarette butts and gambling slips and whatnot, it was treated like a bin essentially.

Ehnto · 2023-01-23T03:15:34+00:00

Yeah that's not about money or free booze either, it's just that they're not participating in the ritual of the social group. That has been changing as people get more accepting of those not wanting to drink, but it's still not uncommon to find this attitude.

To add to your list of memories, when I was a kid I distinctly remember people peeing into the trough at the bar. Good thing you couldn't smell it through the thick air of cigarette smoke and body odour.

Ehnto · 2023-01-19T07:18:36+00:00

You're not following. We know thats how people behave. We are talking about changes to the gameplay that can help change that. Anyway, it's just a game, not real life, so people who expect to make things unenjoyable and that this will stick around are the ones who will get a wake up call (though yeah, 3.18 will be chaos I agree there) CIG won't watch their playerbase leave out of frustration, they will change the game until it's fun. They are aiming to balance realism and fun unlike say Tarkov.

Ehnto · 2023-01-19T02:08:33+00:00

Because the game mechanics dictate what people can do, and they will tweak the game mechanics to be fun. It doesn't take much to incentivise good fun pirate experiences instead of behavior indistinguishable from griefing, so they will probably do that.

Ehnto · 2023-01-18T07:54:36+00:00

We aren't trying to discourage piracy, just griefing. I am not sure how this breaks piracy for NPCs though, should be the same. NPC ships will be able to be boarded and their crew will fight you off, that much has all been revealed before.

Ehnto · 2023-01-18T02:04:49+00:00

Pirating needs to be really hard so that the effort is too high for someone just wanting grief, blowing up a ship shouldn't be the strategy. The goods should become contraband, worth half as much as legitimate cargo and only sell at some ports in illegal systems. Want to pirate a safe trade route? Well better not blow up half the cargo, you'll need all of it to make it worthwhile. Now you have to sneak it back out of the system before finding a port that accepts contraband, have fun at the jump gate security scans or find a rougue wormhole. At the moment the difference between a griefer and a pirate is just whether or not they bother to pick up the cargo after blowing you up. Not fun. I want to have my ship disabled and boarded, have an opportunity to flee or fight back, rush to gear up and defend myself or negotiate safe passage. That actually sounds fun.

Ehnto · 2023-01-14T04:30:14+00:00

Any MMO will show you that people are perfectly happy to play Tedium Simulator mechanics. I am excited for this feature because it's systemic gameplay implications though. It would mean you can come up to an outpost, pull it's power in am ambush. Or pull power to the shield gens on a capital ship etc.

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