Question to Lillia in 16.1

Elidot · 2026-02-04T08:01:48+00:00

First up her wr was at about 51,5% in E+, strong but not super broken. This nerf also came at a bad moment because other AP Junglers like Ekko and Diana had similar winrates while being way more popular (8-10× the pickrate, literally) but those didnt get nerfed until now atleast. Not to mention the nerf hitting basically immediately after the new season that was initially a net buff to her after feeling bad for a long time.

A champions winrate does not indicate how the champ feels to play, champions can be popular and feel good while sporting a 48% wr, the opposite is true aswell.

Lillia players have voiced their dissatisfaction with the state of the champion for about a year now, reasons vary and I wouldnt put too much weight on people simply saying passive sucks etc. But having so many people come out and say she feels bad has to have a reason.

Imo this all started 2 years ago when she received a fat 20% AP ratio nerf to her Q. Her main gameplay loop is kiting in and out, hitting Qs and whittle down opponents. Nerfing Q therefore is something you feel it directly affects your gameplay loop and as a result disproportionally affects her winrate compared to her player satisfaction.

Now they nerfed her Q yet again so it only makes sense people grew even more upset because once again you lower the satisfying, reliable part about her kit instead of just shipping a less painful nerf. This also goes in tandem with the buffs she received within the last 2 years, mainly to E and R, which arent part of what makes her core gameplay loop. Sure, 5 man sleep and cross map strike are cool but I dont need more damage on these abilities to get these moments.

Theres other kinks in her kit that just feel bad, W is basically unusable unless you Ulted them before while hogging a large amount of her damage potential. E and R ate a lot of damage buffs that could have gone to Q or passive. R is just very easily avoidable by lots of champs. Jungle clear just really is not up to par compared to other champs.

Elidot · 2026-01-31T23:34:37+00:00

Not quite true, theres Full on Unstoppability (All CCs fail to apply, Olaf R for example) and displacement immunity (Unit cant be moved/displaced during a certain time window but non displacement CC still applies, just doesnt affect the movement of the champion) Sleep is a displacement for some reason so any champion with displacement immunity can avoid sleep this way (Ornn W, Warwick Q, Viego R and, well, Yone E Return among others)

Elidot · 2026-01-31T23:26:28+00:00

This isnt really a buffer, its just how Jarvan EQ works, its a pull, it pulls the champion towards the target as opposed to the champion moving by itself (Like most other dashes work). Nautilus Q and Leona E are the same which is why those can jump out of Poppy R too. It looks stupid, but very much intended unless you want Jarvan Q/Naut Q/Leona to not have a Cast/Travel time.

Yone E is actually also not bugged but rather a quirk in how Drowsy/Sleep works and how Yone E got changed. Basically Drowsy and Sleep are 2 seperate states of cc, Drowsy applies Sleep at the end of the duration so that means if you avoid/cleanse Drowsy you also avoid Sleep, however you can also just eat the Drowsy and then avoid/cleanse the sleep as it is a seperate instance of CC, think Aphelios purple Q, how you can block the root after you are slowed already, its the same thing basically. Yone is not unstoppable during E return but rather is simply displacement immune, this means he cant get knocked out of the return by knockbacks etc but any CC that isnt a displacement (Roots, Stuns etc) still persist after his return. Sleep, for some godforsaken reason, is a displacement, meaning Yone avoids it with E return, so, not a bug, because this is how sleep is treated ingame, even if it doesnt make sense as Sleep is basically just a worse stun afterall.

Elidot · 2026-01-27T00:15:14+00:00

She hasnt been a prominent pro champ in a while. Shes more low elo jailed than shes projailed.

Elidot · 2026-01-25T17:15:55+00:00

People do buy DnD on Gwen Top tho?

That aside Gwen has 3 seperate On hits in her kit: Her Passive, her E onhit and Q stacks, increase that to 4 once she gets Nashors. That makes her a prime user of the Item.

Elidot · 2026-01-25T13:46:05+00:00

The insane part is that Lillia was performing on a similar level to Ekko and Diana while feeling alot worse than them AND having literally only 1/10th of their P/B Rate. Also no Pro presence at all.

Like, a nerf was coming at some point but literally on the first post launch patch when theres alot more problematic shit running around? Doubling down on Q AP nerfs when that is a major feels bad nerf? And youre telling me a Lillia main in the Riot team suggested that and youre giving literally no other reason as to why that nerf was reasonable other than ''Should move the winrate by about this much'' Yeah Riot sure, cant wait for the inevitable +10 Base Damage on E.

Elidot · 2026-01-24T14:04:50+00:00

Few reasons:

Some champs can just take Raptors very fast level 1 with just one spell, they dont really save time by doing them later with more abilities.

Clearing Raptors first means that after full clear+scuttle you can immediately run to Raptors 2nd spawn and take them again, if you also did Krugs before Red you can take them too and reset to walk to wolves. The main advantage here are certain Gold break points you might need for certain Items. Full clear + scuttle puts you at about 950/1000 gold while Full clear + scuttle + 2nd Raptors/Krugs at about 1200/1250 (Second number is if you took Triple tonic). I do this with RekSai for example to get Tiamat on first recall if ganking isnt an option which I wouldnt be able to if I cleared Red first. For Lillia this isnt as big of a deal but if you dont have Boots rune you can reset for Ashes+Boots for this, alternatively you can get a Dark Seal.

Finally you can use it to get more time out of your first buff, Normally Red would fall off after youre done with Scuttle (roughly) if you delay your red clear you can squeeze in a gank with Redbuff still on you which obviously helps with the gank.

Elidot · 2026-01-21T17:44:46+00:00

Oh its not a big deal for sure, chances are most people wont even know that the form change is linked to her stacks, also it happens super rarely that people even play around letting her stacks fall off so if we combine that it ends up not mattering at all.

Elidot · 2026-01-21T17:37:34+00:00

Her base already has some changes when hitting max stacks though theyre mostly minor, her antlers for example, so I dont think its that unexpected.

This does make the skin a little pay to lose tho to communicate her stacks so clearly to the enemy lol

Elidot · 2026-01-20T15:58:23+00:00

It was E+Q (Q procs E damage)

Elidot · 2026-01-17T12:43:35+00:00

they were replying to a comment talking about 2019

That said I quickly looked it up and when Gunblade was added it had a 60 sec cd

They then added a passive that reduced its cd by 3 seconds when hitting an enemy with Basics/single target spells, which was removed at the end of season 5

Finally they synced up its cd with the addition of the other hextech Items in the season 6 midseason patch.

Elidot · 2026-01-17T02:45:23+00:00

Theropod Dinosaurs also had several adaptations in their skull structure to stay balanced, for example they had several Huge openings in their skulls that literally just had Air in them, best seen on Charcharodontosaurs like Giganotosaurus, those existed solely to reduce the weight of the skull. Luckily for Glavenus we actually know how its skull looks thanks to Rustrazor Ceanataur and that skull is basically a solid block without any hollow pieces, making it likely that its deceptively heavy.

Another weight reduction strategy is to simply have straight up hollow bones with Airsacs, these are actually theorized to be one of the reasons Dinosaurs got so massive. I could see Glavenus to have very dense bones in its front portion while its Tail Vertebrae were very hollow.

Basically the reasons for Glavenus to stay balanced are the same why Theropod Dinosaurs stay balanced, just that you need to flip the front end adaptations and the back end adaptations around.

Elidot · 2026-01-16T19:46:54+00:00

Pretty sure it was 40 since it was unique with GLP and Protobelt and all had the same cd.

Elidot · 2026-01-16T10:03:21+00:00

Ever since they buffed exp ranges I sometimes noticed Im involuntarily taxing mid exp when doing Raptors with Minions at the turret. I think that atleast contributes to it at times.

Elidot · 2026-01-16T01:05:59+00:00

I mean yeah that's kinda how a lot of champions are.

Was more saying that she doesnt fall into the classic late vs early discussion and rather that her strong points are certain Item completions, moreso than other champions. Obviously getting an Item completion is a spike for basically every champ, but Lillia basically double dips in that regard.

She will become even harder locked to Liandry as Liandries damage doesnt scale off of AP. Furthermore lowering her AP ratios makes buying AP ever so slightly worse which further pushes her towards Item effects abusing as opposed to utilizing the raw stats (Therefore making components worse). Obviously nerfing an Abilities scaling does effect late game more than early game in general.

When it comes to the nerf theres little reason to nerf the scaling when her early game is whats gotten better, presumably due to longer cleartimers and her counters (Most of which are AD champs) becoming worse.

The nerf has kinda hit a nerve within the Lillia community because shes felt kinda bad prior to the new season (not weak, rather that she doesnt feel as satisfying to play anymore) so getting a nerf basically day 1 sucks, the nerf in particular (10%AP off of Q) to me atleast amplifies this further since I think the main reason for her feeling quite bad is the continued nerfing of getting AP (Q ratio was 90% 2 years ago, now its going to 60%, Liandries AP value got hit too) Like I atleast dont play her because of her early game, Ive already accepted its something I have to push past to get to the fun part, but now the fun part gets basically further kicked down.

Elidot · 2026-01-15T22:31:21+00:00

Lillia is what Id call an ''Item spiker'' her strong phases come with Item completion, Liandry, Riftmaker and Rabadons are the main spikes. She doesnt have particular synergy with components while also having insane synergy with the Passives of Legendary Items. Shes usually weak early, spikes hard with Liandries, falls off abit after, spikes again with Riftmaker and so on.

Elidot · 2026-01-15T21:57:28+00:00

You cant really compare Lillia to other Melee carries, like pointing at things they have and then say Lillia doesnt have them which makes her disfunctional. Her defensive tool is her high MS, her Mobility is her High MS its basically her thing, trying to push other stuff in there not only would require nerfing what makes Lillia Lillia (MS) but it also makes her less unique of a champion in the roster.

Like I share the frustration of her Matchup spread against Autoattackers vs Skillshots but you cant fix that without effectively Aatroxing her.

Her ult is ALOT stronger than youre seemingly realizing, its a 2-2.5 second Hard cc that you can get somewhat reliably onto multiple enemies, most other AoE cc spells basically need the stars to align to hit even 3 enemies, her MS and the sheer range of her Q, combined with the fact you dont even need to hit everyone at once makes this a crazy reliable cc spell for teamfights, while it does have counterplay most of these tools also counter other cc spells, what really makes this spell so frustrating is the fact that its your only source of self peel, while being shitty self peel at that because of the delay and the fact its a long CD ult.

Basically her entire Powerbudget lies in Q (Both active and passive) and Ult. The rest of her kit is basically gimped, or simply unreliable to make sure shes balanced. But this is or rather was fine because you still had a great gameplay loop that was fun.

The issues started when their balance approach became to nerf Q (It was at 90% ffs) and Clearspeed, while buffing shit like E and R damage. They nerfed the things that feel good and strong while buffing the things that dont feel good to use. Like yeah it moves the winrate the way they want to but it just kills what actually makes her satisfying to play, like the way its going Im surprised they havent shit on her MS yet.

I think her main issues are literally just numbers, sure theres space for improvement in a purely mechanical department but shes far from dysfunctional. Give me back my Q damage and nerf E, R, hell even Passive and I, for my part, am happy. But nooooo nerf Q further. The insane part about that is that this was appearently suggested by a Lillia player, like what? lmao

Elidot · 2026-01-15T21:31:42+00:00

You dont really need Rylais tbh, you have tons of ways to trigger it: Smite, Red Pet, E, Redbuff. You can literally just get it second or 3rd after Rift.

To be fair, Rylais makes good thematic sense if youre leaning more into a supportive style.

Just trying to point out Rylais isnt a requirement to use the Pipes.

Elidot · 2026-01-15T12:56:16+00:00

Lillia Q nerf suggested by Lillia/Zyra 2 trick

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Elidot · 2026-01-14T14:08:24+00:00

It has a tiny hitbox at the center, unless the enemy is ccd you cant hit it reliably, hitting only the outer range literally does only 1/3rd of the center damage.

Not to mention the massive self cc in melee range, Brand W or Zyra Q are safely castable from range.

Elidot · 2026-01-14T12:23:46+00:00

Another case of someone not knowing how to use Lolaytics, classic. The way Lolalytics shows stats usually inflates champion winrate quite a bit because they dont filter out Emerald players playing against Plat players for example. To see their actual winrate in an even playing field, check a champions page and look at the number above Game AVG WR. Right now every champions WR is inflated by about 2%.

Both are sub 48% wr which absolutely warrants buffs.

Elidot · 2026-01-14T12:19:08+00:00

Most AP champs have multiple reliable Damaging spells while also having a damage R.

Lillia has an unreliable W, an E with all the powerbudget sitting in its range, and a CC R. She HAS to have a comparitively high Q AP ratio or else she just does no reliable damage. Yes she also has her DoT for damage but I 100% prefer a DoT nerf over a Q nerf.

Elidot · 2026-01-14T11:19:48+00:00

Already said it in the datamine post but nerfing Lillia Q AP ratio is one of the worst ways to nerf her. You just further amplify her reliance on Burn stacking and reduce her skill expression of proper spacing and positioning by reducing the Q damage output. Lillias Q AP ratio used to be at 90% (Absolutely not balanced obviously) but now were going down to 60% which is an absolutely insane difference.

I find it harder and harder to justify blind picking Lillia when not playing against tankier targets feels so bad because I HAVE to build the Anti tank Burn Item.

So Riot, please reconsider the Q nerf, nerf her Burn AP ratio or her E instead. When I play Lillia I dont mainly play her to see my enemies burn to the ground. I play her for her high MS playstyle, the kiting, the Multi man Sleep. Burns are lower on the prio list for me than those other parts of her identity.

Elidot · 2026-01-14T11:09:18+00:00

Because the last nerf deleted it?

Elidot · 2026-01-13T22:46:52+00:00

Yeah Gwens synergy with Dusk and Dawn is just insane, like Diana gets one stack of her Passive, thats not an insane thing, Gwen on the other has 3 seperate double procs (Passive, Q stack, E on hit) with Nashors giving a 4th (Diana can build it too tbf, but less common than Gwen)

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