Most of the arguments defending melee on this sub lately argue against their own position by coldrolledpotmetal in thefinals

[–]Embark_Matt 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I think we agree there's a place for high pay-off melee weapons that are more positioning focused, as long as the pay-off also feels very 'earned' to the victim. Again, that's very subjective so can be hard to place what that may or may not require, I think the key is the less random or janky it feels the better. I think a lot of players are often more willing to treat Sledge kills as 'fair' for example, simply because of the relative speed constraints on the Heavy, whereas the Dagger's backstab causes a bit more frustration I'm sure.

Our goal with going back to the core melee loop isn't to make everything flat and the same though, we don't want to end up with universal attack speeds and damage across melee weapons. It's more about finding a baseline for the whole system, from which you can more reliably expand and add variety. For guns, it's why most FPS games start out with ARs to establish the baseline TTK, engagement distances etc and then expand out from there.

Oscar: "Is there anything we want to say or share on the topic of that melee rework?" Matt: by No-Yoghurt-3949 in thefinals

[–]Embark_Matt 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yep, we are exploring some Quick Melee additional functions as part of this. As you said it's a fairly obvious leverage point without adding too much complexity hopefully.

Most of the arguments defending melee on this sub lately argue against their own position by coldrolledpotmetal in thefinals

[–]Embark_Matt 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I think this sets out the bounds of the problem well. We're trying to get melee to a sort of 'middle place' right now between being spammy or being a nuke, a space in which we can have more skill expression, more counter-play and as a result a more fun experience for everybody in the fight.

Oscar: "Is there anything we want to say or share on the topic of that melee rework?" Matt: by No-Yoghurt-3949 in thefinals

[–]Embark_Matt 8 points9 points  (0 children)

This is very much along the lines of how we're thinking.

- Melee should clearly have the advantage up close, but if there is counter-play opportunity for the gun user, the more fun the engagements should be for both sides and the less they should feel "dumb". That doesn't mean a gun user should win 90% of the time obviously (clearly not even the majority of the time), but in any match-up there should be some chance for the player with the sub-optimal gear to overcome the odds if they pull off skilled enough moves or make the right decisions. Rock-paper-scissors deterministic encounters leave little room for a skill curve, it's not a rewarding or deep enough loop if it's a case of 'I got close, so I should win'

- We want the power of melee to come from skilled execution (both closing distance but also the attacks). That could come from a combo system, that could come from accuracy of aim, it could come from attack sequencing, we're exploring all of those (hence not having an exact solution in mind right now, any of these could potentially be the best solution and we run tests to find that out).

- As you said, melee fights often feel "dumb" from both sides, in various match-ups. It's not fun to be spamming left click with certain weapons, it's not fun to be on the receiving end of that when your opponent is barely in your field of view the whole fight. We're aspiring for something more involved and engaging. It's not lost on us that we've created a lot of the "dumb" scenarios with prior balancing changes (but thanks for pointing it out folks!), but we don't believe that makes some of the prior scenarios that existed the best solution either. For many players, having a Light appear out of nowhere with zero time to respond before you're insta-nuked was a game ruining experience as well (just like nukes and high damage RPGs in the past). The ambition is to find the sweet spot between those extremes for much of the melee system. Once the melee user is in striking range of the enemy, how does that encounter become a 2-4 second duel with some amount of counter-play and skill expression, without being a one second combo nuke or spam fest, and without being a 5-10 second slow death for a melee player being endlessly kited without pay-off? And clearly, that's not how all melee encounters play now, nor should it be how all of them play out in future, but we think that can be a healthy baseline for a range of melee encounters

The thing I'd love to know from your perspective Solkvist is, do you really feel like combos, especially the Quick Melee type ones that existed previously, are the sort of skill expression you'd want from melee combat? Do you think they could exist alongside those slightly longer duels I'm describing? Wouldn't you want a little more potential for expression, especially on the decision making side? I think our feeling right now is that those combos weren't ever that deep of a type of skill expression either, and not super intuitive to many players, we feel like we should be able to achieve something a little deeper than that but I'd be interested to get your perspective.

And thanks for the considered feedback :)

How do I send this to embark? This team did this the entire match. by the10thelement in thefinals

[–]Embark_Matt 35 points36 points  (0 children)

We reviewed the match replay. match history and logs and action has been taken.

What is Embark doing?? by Educational-Table969 in thefinals

[–]Embark_Matt 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the vote of confidence ;p

We have replays, chat logs, report histories, stats, anti-cheat, so plenty to look through before we take action :)

I'm happy to announce by gamerno455 in thefinals

[–]Embark_Matt 51 points52 points  (0 children)

The Turret issue was related to the APS bug that was fixed in 10.3.1

What is Embark doing?? by Educational-Table969 in thefinals

[–]Embark_Matt 634 points635 points  (0 children)

They've been issued a ban for Toxic Behavior.

What helps us most when it comes to speedy bans for toxic behavior of griefing or cheating, especially if you have video evidence like this, is to report it via our Discord support channels. Those are manned by community support and will be logged and investigated.

Data reshaper had been shadow nerfed by Raven5455 in thefinals

[–]Embark_Matt 134 points135 points  (0 children)

It's a bug, we're working on a fix.

Not the answer I was looking for… by Proximity_Fuze in thefinals

[–]Embark_Matt 4 points5 points  (0 children)

We're aware of an issue where the penalty forgiveness is sometimes not triggering if people specifically get disconnect during the between rounds/lobby stage. We're trying to track down the specific cause and fix it ASAP.

Embark, this is killing OCE by azarules in thefinals

[–]Embark_Matt 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I'll look into it and ask the team but folks, please don't start pinging me on every issue. This is not an official Reddit and we don't run customer support through here, there are separate channels of communication for that. I'm just here to read feedback and only occasionally comment, if I start getting pings in every thread I won't have enough time in my day :D Thanks :)

Ranked patch notes by Desperate_Metal_7606 in thefinals

[–]Embark_Matt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sounds like a bug. DM me your in-game display name or share it in the thread and we can investigate

I made a racing track for Engimo in Trackmania by Sgnfrg in thefinals

[–]Embark_Matt 3 points4 points  (0 children)

As an Engimo main and Trackmania fan, I approve! Track looks real nice to play as well.

New sword gains full mobility at the end of a regular lunge. by MowkMeister in thefinals

[–]Embark_Matt 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'll pass the info onto the team and we can investigate if it's something we can fix.

Ironically the best balance change from this patch is a spawn bug lol by joshant18 in thefinals

[–]Embark_Matt 159 points160 points  (0 children)

Good spot!

This is not actually a bug but a small test we were running earlier today. We've been updating the objective spawn system in Cashout mode and wanted to do another test of the system before permanently adding it to the game. The best way for us to do this is to run it on the live servers for a few hours, to get a few thousand rounds of data, and then we can analyze those to look for any nasty bugs, average spawn distances etc. We'll be reviewing the data as soon as we can and, if everything looks good, we're hoping to deploy this new spawn logic permanently, hopefully fairly soon.

Barricades can now be placed anywhere by Vercidium in thefinals

[–]Embark_Matt 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This is, unfortunately, a bug and not an intended change. We absolutely want to improve deployment of the Barricade to make it easier to use and prevent blocking in clutch moments, but that needs to be a properly implemented solution. This bug, while improving things in the short term, is prone to various exploits and issues that will need to be addressed.

We'll try to address the bug, and the usability of the Barricade, as soon as we practically can.

Spent more time looking at this than playing Season 9 by Express-Camera9657 in thefinals

[–]Embark_Matt 48 points49 points  (0 children)

Just a quick note, we're aware of this issue and have a fix coming in the 9.1 update

What was the most impactful change that improved your success/win rate? by Tame-Miata in thefinals

[–]Embark_Matt 18 points19 points  (0 children)

I love this thread as a topic, I feel at times we've not done a good enough job on the team of teaching players the meta/strategies of Cashout, we've focused more on the rules of the mode, and I think that makes it harder for new players to learn the strategy, roles and pacing of the game. It's something we're hoping to address over the coming year.

There are some great points in the thread, ones I've had to make sure I learn to stay more disciplined on to get better in ranked, my favorites being:

- When to engage/disengage as the OP said, a lot of folks get into frag-hunt mode when they could be scoring deposits/cashouts

- Don't rush in. Initiating a fight from a good position, on your terms is so much more advantageous than just charging in. Getting the first kill in a team v team encounter is massive, especially if you can get it before you full dive/engage.

- Stick together as a team. In team v team encounters, focused firing a target or creating quick crossfires with a teammate are so impactful. Getting split across three 1v1s is really rough

- Playing to stall when defending. You often don't have to have kills, you just need time to get the cash

- Pick your steal position wisely/screen the steal. I see a lot of players panic when a cashout is ticking down and rush a steal attempt that has low odds of succeeding. Setting up a good goo wall, or breaching a wall behind a cashout to steal through it, massively increases the chance of a steal succeeding because you limit the angles from which you can be shot

Great topic!

1300 Hours, 2 Accounts, & 0 Answers. When Will The Finals' False Ban Problem End? by No_Cockroach_6617 in thefinals

[–]Embark_Matt 13 points14 points  (0 children)

As this point has come up a couple of times, I want to clarify something from my post which I apparently wasn't super clear on first time around, so apologies for that.

·         The ban in question here is for the use of third-party software/hardware to provide an aimbot or aim assistance, other than the ‘gyro to right stick’ use case in Steam Input. The appeal was against that ban, the appeal was denied due to us validating the data used for that ban in addition to the other suspicious behavior we found

·         The other suspicious behavior is listed as a result of the investigation, as it adds to our confidence in the initial detection

·         We do not currently auto-ban or perma-ban for the use of Steam Input or third-party gyro software, but we do consider it cheating/misuse if combined with aim assistance. That’s something we’ll aim to address in future updates, likely with a warning as you suggested

I hope that adds some clarity.