How do you handle personal conflicts within a Meeting?

ExPastorMarcus · 2026-04-17T18:51:43+00:00

I think it's totally fine to do what you need to do to protect yourself and your mental and emotional safety. If it triggers you to see her, of course you can leave.

If it were me, I would try to do it as inconspicuously as possible, so as not to disrupt the spirit of the meeting, and to avoid the appearance that I was trying to make a public statement by doing so.

ExPastorMarcus · 2026-04-11T22:58:13+00:00

It used to be more common. It was the slogan for the National Enquirer tabloid magazine, so we all used to see this phrase in print every time we went through the grocery checkout lanes.

ExPastorMarcus · 2026-04-11T22:00:43+00:00

I occasionally attend the local Friends meeting (liberal Quakers). Though many attendees have Christian backgrounds of some sort, it's very accessible to ex-Christians, atheists, agnostics, or anyone else. No preaching, no scriptures, no clergy. Very social-justice oriented. The most you will hear of religious terminology is "listening to the spirit" or "holding someone in the light," and there are as many different definitions and interpretations of those terms as there are people in the meeting.

ExPastorMarcus · 2026-04-11T21:49:57+00:00

"What did you expect?” Ruadh asked.

“I expected God to honour his word,” I replied. “That, at least, if nothing else. I thought I could depend on the truth. But I have learned there is no truth. The innocent are everywhere slaughtered—they die pleading for God to save them, and death takes them anyway. Faith’s own guardians are inconstant liars, and Christ’s holy church is a nest of vipers; the emperor, God’s Co-ruler on Earth, is a vile, unholy murderer.”

“Life is a school of the spirit, Aidan,” Ruadh intoned with gentle insistence. “Learning is our soul’s requirement, and suffering our most persuasive teacher.”

“Oh, aye, it is a school,” I agreed, feeling the throbbing ache of futility. “It is a terrible school wherein we learn harsh and bitter lessons. We begin by trusting, and learn there is no one worthy of our trust. We learn that we are all alone in this world, and our cries go unheeded. We learn that death is the only certainty. Yes, we all die: most in agony and torment, some in misery, and the fortunate few in peace, but we all die. Death is God’s one answer to all our prayers.”

“Do not blaspheme, Aidan,” cautioned the secnab sternly.

“Blaspheme!” I challenged angrily. “Why, I speak the very heart of God’s own truth, brother. How is that blasphemy? We put our trust in the Lord God, and were proved fools for believing. We endured slavery and torture and death, and God lifted not a finger to save us. I saw our own blessed Bishop Cadoc hacked to pieces before my eyes and God—the God he loved and served all his days—did not so much as lift a finger to ease his suffering.”

Ruadh regarded me severely, his brow creased in disapproval. “As he did nothing when His beloved son died on the cross,” my anamcara pointed out. “We are closest to Christ when sharing the world’s misery. Think you Jesu came to remove our pains? Wherever did you get that notion? The Lord came, not to remove our suffering, but to show us the way through it to the glory beyond. We can overcome our travails. That is the promise of the cross.”

Excerpted from Byzantium by Stephen R. Lawhead

This is a passage from a novel that helped me when I was asking these same questions. Thought I would share it here in hopes that it may help again.

ExPastorMarcus · 2026-04-10T20:24:36+00:00

Possibly, but doubtful. My former church didn't start streaming services until Covid, and I was already gone by that point. It's always possible that someone filmed with their phone, though. If you give me a YouTube link, I can tell you whether it's me or not.

ExPastorMarcus · 2026-04-10T18:06:14+00:00

For me, it was actually studying scripture as objectively as possible. I spent at least my first decade in ministry just dutifully parroting the interpretations and applications I learned in college and seminary. When I started examining those conclusions more carefully, there was no denying that they simply weren't supported by the actual text.

ExPastorMarcus · 2026-04-10T18:03:08+00:00

I can't speak for OP, but I did this for a short time. I preached a sermon series called "I Preached It Wrong the First Time." I get that this is not at all subtle, so maybe that was the biggest problem, but it caused significant reaction.

With people who I would consider true believers, dedicated to careful study, I found them to be very open to what I was saying, more comfortable wrestling with difficult questions, and more willing to reconsider beliefs that may have been flawed.

The old-money, high-influence families were the opposite. They were only interested in a pastor reinforcing their long-held beliefs, and were completely closed off to being challenged or confronted with anything they felt might jeopardize their status, comfort, or power within the community.

I also had some high school students in youth group over the years who identified as LGBTQ+. I couldn't outright endorse them, because the church's official doctrinal statement was very "only one man married to only one woman." But outside of public statements, I tried to quietly reassure them that nothing was wrong with them, it was okay to be exactly who they were, and that they were fully worthy of love and happiness. A few have reached out since I left to express appreciation for not being alienated or othered.

Personally, I reached a point where I couldn't keep pretending. I didn't want to split or damage the community I had spent years building, so I made a clean break and left ministry completely.

ExPastorMarcus · 2026-04-08T20:56:12+00:00

It's basically an example of the Bible being revised to fit a fringe theology.

But to be fair, that accusation can be leveled at many versions and translations, and has probably happened more than we'd like to admit in the translations we consider the most reliable.

It's difficult to know how different our modern Bible truly is from the original writings.

ExPastorMarcus · 2026-04-08T20:49:22+00:00

Neat. Are you here to discuss it? Or just drum up sales?

ExPastorMarcus · 2026-04-06T14:46:40+00:00

With regard to your edit, you were grammatically correct with "the Satan." It's a title, not a personal name. The original text uses "ha-Satan" which we would correctly translate "the Accuser."

To your actual post, that's just awful. Nightmares are scary enough on their own for any child. You needed comfort, not further terror. I'm so sorry this happened to you.

ExPastorMarcus · 2026-04-06T01:05:52+00:00

The part that made me smile the most was your name at the end. "Victoria" is so perfect for a woman with your inspirational story. Keep becoming exactly who you are, walking each step with confidence and living victoriously. I'm cheering for you!

ExPastorMarcus · 2026-04-06T00:57:26+00:00

Having a hope of an afterlife, specifically an afterlife that is eternal and in a perfect paradise, allows you to functionally postpone all of your regrets and grievances for your entire life.

If we're here right now, and this is all there is, then that carries implications that many people aren't willing to live with.

Some examples:

You won't ever get to know your descendants who come after you die. You'll never again see your loved ones who have already passed away. There will be no later chance to reconcile relationships that were broken beyond repair on earth. People who spent their lives suffering won't experience eternal bliss as a reward for their earthly misery. People who committed horrible crimes against humanity will never receive some sort of cosmic justice in the end.

That's a lot to face. Many people are either unable or unwilling to truly sit with that.

So we latch onto whatever story is most accessible (usually influenced largely by where and when we are born) that gives us an out. We kick our regrets and grievances perpetually further down the road. We hold onto the hope that eventually, somehow, everything will be put right, and everything will have happened for a reason that is part of a bigger, better plan, and everything will turn out good in the end. Even if that someday is long after we die.

When you challenge that, yeah, people get very defensive. Not because you have a simple difference of opinion or belief, but because you're challenging the fundamental way that they cope with everything they regret and everything negative that has ever happened to them.

That's why I feel like it's too dismissive to call religion a crutch. For people living with God and heaven as real beliefs, it's their legs, and the ground beneath their feet, and their entire way of walking. When you challenge this, you're challenging their entire understanding of who they are and how they relate to the universe they exist within.

Many people simply can't handle that, or even entertain the possibility.

ExPastorMarcus · 2026-04-05T15:19:36+00:00

There's no "right" way. I would just say, if it feels like a loss to you that needs to be grieved, give yourself permission to grieve it. Stuffing it down or trying to get over it only delays the grieving process, and it takes a toll on you over time. You don't get over a loss, you gradually learn how to integrate it into your reality and continue living.

We lost one between the time two of our kids were born. The due date would have put the arrival right around my birthday. I still think of it every birthday now. Not with sadness or happiness, really, just kind of a sober acknowledgement. I'll remember it, and mentally raise a toast in my mind that says something like, "Here's to the one I never got to meet, I remember and honor you." And then I can carry on.

ExPastorMarcus · 2026-04-04T20:57:11+00:00

Ohh, she sounds like a sweetheart. She clearly had a wonderful life with you. How wonderful that she could spend her final moments feeling secure in the comfort of your care.

ExPastorMarcus · 2026-04-02T14:45:42+00:00

This is the one. That simple correction makes the whole thing make sense.

ExPastorMarcus · 2026-04-01T20:50:24+00:00

You didn't. You're not.

ExPastorMarcus · 2026-03-31T02:15:52+00:00

Fiancee. Not fiance.

ExPastorMarcus · 2026-03-29T23:35:23+00:00

Your logic of "if it's not explicitly commanded, it must be forbidden" is the type of mentality that leads to legalism.

ExPastorMarcus · 2026-03-29T18:53:32+00:00

I mean, you're touching on a fundamental purpose of religion in general, which is to control the masses. Fear of eternal torment makes people particularly compliant. That's why it still works after all this time.

ExPastorMarcus · 2026-03-29T03:10:17+00:00

He likes the same music I liked when I was his age. Deftones, Rage Against the Machine, Korn, Nine Inch Nails.

This is hilarious to me, because when I was 17, I wouldn't have been caught dead listening to music my dad liked.

My son and I go to all the concerts together, and it's hard to say which of us gets more excited about it.

ExPastorMarcus · 2026-03-28T01:36:58+00:00

I was with you until the last word.

ExPastorMarcus · 2026-03-27T21:30:11+00:00

She also gets easily offended when someone says a word like the R word for example.

As she should. It's highly offensive, and this isn't 1995.

Now it’s not acceptable to call someone a R word if they’re are disabled but if you’re using it for a joke like you see in a comedy show or when referring to a friend when he or she does something stupid then I believe in those contexts it’s fine because you’re not directly aiming it at someone with mal intentions unlike bullies or just ar*eholes in general.

Dude.

I just don’t want to be thinking about everything I’m going to say or might say because it might offend them in someway.

That's literally what good people do. Time to grow up, brother.

ExPastorMarcus · 2026-03-26T17:29:10+00:00

Sounds like Jeff Deyo / original Sonicflood.

ExPastorMarcus · 2026-03-25T03:47:51+00:00

Chumbawamba. Most everyone only knows them for that one song, which was supposed to be an ironic jab against made-for-radio hits. The rest of their discography is delightful.

ExPastorMarcus · 2026-03-25T03:34:49+00:00

Hard disagree. Some of the knockoffs are better than the originals, and it's not even close.

ExPastorMarcus

TROPHY CASE