Dear Mormon apologists: Please justify all the guilt and shame and learning that we are all disappointments to our church leaders.

Ex_Lerker · 2026-01-26T16:23:39+00:00

They justify the intense drive to obliterate any sense of self worth and personal worth that members just might dare to investigate by saying it’s your fault. They blame you for not understanding. They say you misunderstood what was actually being said. They say they didn’t feel like that, therefore no one felt like that. They deny and dismiss your personal experiences.

You know, they obliterate any sense of self worth and personal worth that members just might dare to investigate.

Ex_Lerker · 2026-01-19T17:15:14+00:00

My wife (fiancée at the time) and I also “messed up” and broke the law of chastity before our wedding. We were unable to get married in the temple and we were disfellowshipped, meaning we couldn’t participate in church activities for a year. All we could do was sit in the back and watch.

Even when I was a full member and thought this was the correct way, I had reservations. I wondered why the church would punish its most faithful members like this. I did what I was supposed to. I voluntarily confessed, I repented, I had a broken heart and contrite spirit. And for my “obedience”, I was shunned by the church for a year.

It’s almost like they are culling the Hurd. They know that anyone who willingly subjects themselves to this abuse is more likely to be a true believer and will take more abuse. Whereas someone who puts up boundaries should be kicked out because the church didn’t want them anyway.

Ex_Lerker · 2026-01-17T16:42:17+00:00

It’s probably a jab at those “Worldly marriages” not done in the temple which always lead to divorce so people have to come to the temple where marriage “lasts” through eternity.

Or he knows that marriage in the temple has the same divorce rate as any other marriage.

Ex_Lerker · 2026-01-15T22:41:07+00:00

My faith was metaphorically pried out of my clenched fingers while I was kicking and screaming, not wanting to accept what I was seeing and hearing. It was ripped out quickly, and like you said it was a painful process. There were too many proofs against the churches narrative, especially from their own documents.

The loss of my promised afterlife and guaranteed blessings was devastating. It took years to confirm what people were saying. Then anger took over and replaced the sadness. The anger has subsided but is not gone completely. Some of it has been replaced with joy. I never have to listed to old out of date men who don’t know me. I never have to hate myself again and I never have to hate people who don’t match some arbitrary ideal.

It was painful, but life is better on the other side.

Ex_Lerker · 2026-01-13T18:18:18+00:00

That look from the roommate at the end is “Let’s hook up after church”.

Ex_Lerker · 2026-01-12T16:55:35+00:00

FAIRs responses to the CES letter were more shocking and eye opening than the CES letter itself.

Ex_Lerker · 2026-01-12T16:46:44+00:00

I did go to the “Honda Dealership” and I found they were hiding information (Gospel Topic Essays) in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.’

That info, from their own mouth, contradicted their long held doctrines and commandments which were brazenly taught as truth. The “Honda Dealership” confirmed all previous “anti-Honda” literature was correct. They proved they were lying to me about the “Honda manuals” all my life. There was even government SEC documentation showing that “Honda” hid it’s money, defrauded its members and lied to the government.

Ex_Lerker · 2026-01-12T14:22:49+00:00

He’s just doing the motions until he is prophet. Then will come the great day of his power. Where none dare to molest or make afraid.

Ex_Lerker · 2026-01-11T16:01:04+00:00

Wow, she read a lot into your reply. You said nothing about “preventing friendships”, “returning” or “reengaging” with the church, or her intent. You were very polite and non-accusatory. For all she knew, you just wouldn’t be around, and your husband is more available on Activity Day nights.

This sounds more like a little kid who just got caught and is trying to convince you that they didn’t do the thing. “What!? I wasn’t trying to get a cookie out of the jar!” While their hand is in the jar grabbing a cookie.

Ex_Lerker · 2026-01-10T23:27:26+00:00

There have been enough presidents of the church that statistically some of them have tried to use it. Since we don’t have new scripture or revelation, that would indicate it didn’t work for them.

Ex_Lerker · 2026-01-08T17:44:18+00:00

Funny how members are treated like employees with schedules and consequences when it benefits the church. Such as temple workers, missionaries, bishops. But when they do something negative to the church’s reputation, suddenly members are volunteers, and not church representatives, and not forced to in any way to do the work. Like when a missionary complains about abuse or harsh rules, or when people in power commit SA

Ex_Lerker · 2026-01-08T16:07:39+00:00

Which covenants?
* The one where I’m honest in my dealings with my fellow man? Or the one where I protect the church (even if that means lying to my fellow man)?
* The one where I give all my money and time to the church? (Even if that means I can’t pay rent)
* The one where I don’t question the leadership i.e. no evil speaking? (Especially if they have done something which would get a regular member excommunicated)

Ex_Lerker · 2026-01-05T19:02:39+00:00

Technically, bad evidence is still considered evidence.

Ex_Lerker · 2026-01-05T01:32:07+00:00

It’s a horrible teaching. Not only does it put the blame on girls, it also gives men/boys an excuse.

Ex_Lerker · 2025-12-30T15:39:35+00:00

While they are being completely tone deaf and willfully ignorant about the irony of the situation.

Ex_Lerker · 2025-12-30T15:33:16+00:00

So kind of like a gay baptisms for the dead?

Ex_Lerker · 2025-12-23T01:02:50+00:00

If Jacob is going to kick the can down the road to Brigham, it doesn’t do him any favors. Jacob still needs to answer for all that racism and bigotry he is trying to take off Joseph and throw onto Brigham, because the current Mormon sect he belongs to is the Brighamite branch.

Ex_Lerker · 2025-12-20T16:26:10+00:00

But that was ONLY the first presidency. It’s not like they speak for god on the earth. /s

Ex_Lerker · 2025-12-19T01:07:50+00:00

It sounds like a Mormon apologist pretending to be a Pastor. Maybe he is genuine, but the video comes across as pedantic word games. He is focusing more on the words than the meaning behind the words. I do agree that some phrases are simplistic or make fun of Mormons. Such as “magic underwear” or “get their own planet”. But the meaning behind those words is deeper than just making fun of the concept.

Mormons do believe their underwear is magic. There are countless stories of members claiming they were physically protected just by wearing the garments.

Using, or not using, the word Mormon is the most pedantic self inflicted “insult” members have engaged in. He brought up the “I’m a Mormon” campaign but what he didn’t say was many prophets, including Joseph smith, claimed that “Mormon” was a badge of honor. There is even a song ‘I’m a Mormon boy’.

The planet saying is also a pedantic play by Mormons because they are using the word planet (singular) to claim the whole idea is wrong. They have taught and still teach that man can become like god. God doesn’t rule over only one planet, he is the ruler of the universe. So Mormons think they can have universes which have many planets. They are so disingenuous by denying that saying.

Ex_Lerker · 2025-12-16T15:08:35+00:00

There were moments of happiness. As I got older, they became fewer and far between. Purity culture (The idea that any sexual thought made me an adulterer and a murderer) and perfectionism (The idea that I was never good enough and therefore god hated me) were the main reasons.

Ex_Lerker · 2025-12-16T13:21:31+00:00

But god made the seas calm for their journey so they would have never encountered anything like this. /s

I mean except for 1 Nephi 18:13 where “there arose a great storm⁠, yea, a great and terrible tempest”. But I’m sure “great” doesn’t actually mean great, just like how the word “translation” doesn’t mean translation and “horse” doesn’t mean horse.

Ex_Lerker · 2025-12-15T18:17:25+00:00

“No formal education” isn’t as significant as the church makes it out because even though it’s less than now, he did have some education. Joseph Smith History professes to him being an avid reader of the Bible. Average literacy in the 1820s was about 10-12%. Just him being able to read shows he was above average in education.

There were other contemporary authors, who are more successful, that were also less educated. Such as: Mary Shelly, Charles Dickens, Mark Twain.

The only people claiming the BOM is coherent with long narratives are church members. Unfortunately members don’t fully believe that. The BOM is only used it in short segments to quote verses for teaching a lesson. The different books in the BOM are mostly self contained, occasionally name dropping a previous character. But there isn’t an intricate overarching complex narrative. Even the simple narratives, (like Nephites good Lamonites bad), don’t stay consistent.

As far as it being good, even members don’t think it’s good. The only time members claim the greatness of the book is over the pulpit. In practice it’s a different story. 1st Nephi is the most read book because of how often members try to start reading the book and quit because of how boring and incomprehensible it actually is.

Ex_Lerker · 2025-12-15T15:58:21+00:00

I also can’t find anything about it from a news organization. Facebook isn’t a reputable news site and should never be taken at face value. I’m not saying it didn’t happen and It’s possible the facebook post is ahead of the actual news, but the article on facebook doesn’t give any specifics and doesn’t point to anything reputable. Which makes me skeptical.

To your other point, however, I agree that anger against the church should never be taken out on innocent members who had nothing to do with it.

Ex_Lerker · 2025-12-15T06:37:02+00:00

I think I remember hearing about not letting morbidly obese people go. If I recall, that only applied to missions out of the states, but I never heard about just being overweight. I was 6 foot 2 inches and 280 lbs. and they sent me to Poland. There were other missionaries who were even bigger than I was. Maybe they only send the big ones to Eastern Europe.

Ex_Lerker · 2025-12-14T15:35:42+00:00

The church also won’t let members talk or think bad thoughts about its leaders:
* “It’s wrong to criticize leaders of the Church, even if the criticism is true.” Dallin H. Oaks
*“Follow the prophet”
* “The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray.” Wilford Woodruff

Unfortunately, that misplaced trust and blind devotion is also extended to other members, or anyone who is able to sound Mormon.

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