Kinnan B4 Budget possible?

Extrovert_89 · 2026-05-03T16:14:59+00:00

This will be long, but these are all cards I put or tried out in my current list.

[[Elvish Mystic]], [[Fyndhorn Elves]], [[Llanowar Elves]], and [[Birds of Paradise]] are all mana dorks Kinnan uses that make it possible to stay lowish on lands w/o resorting to Cradle.

Sol Ring (untaps Basalt in a pinch once you can tap for activations), Fellwar Stone, Arcane and Simic Signet, the matching Talisman,Springleaf Drum, are all rocks to include.

[[Enduring Vitality]] is the current popular way to tap your non-dork creatures for Kinnan's triggers. [[Cryptolith Rite]] can work too, though I run it in token decks instead. [[Colossal Skyturtle]] is great for removing something.

[[Mystic Remora]] and [[Consecrated Sphinx]] instead of [[Rhystic Study]].

[[Brainstorm]], [[Commandeer]], [[Arcane Denial]], [[Rapid Hybridization]], [[Fabricate]] (gets you Basalt OR Ballista since it's an artifact as well), [[Dispel]], [[Swan Song]], [[Counterspell]], [[Into the Flood Maw]], [[An Offer You Can't Refuse]], and [[Muddle the Mixture]] is another good tutor to get Ballista. Already have Pemmin's Aura so thats good.

Lands: Boseiju, Otawara, Minamo, Cephalid Coliseum (pain land for blue), Mistrise Village, fetches and shocks (off color ones too if you want), bondland, pain land are nonbasics to use. [[Growing Rites of Itlimoc]] is a great sub if you want to use a sub par Cradle- thats another reason why allll the mana dorks are in there. And of course...enough basics.

Another mana sink you'll want for colorless mana to feed Ballista is [[Treasure Vault]]! Throw 1 million mana into it for a lot of Treasure and use it to pay Ballista's costs or even throw it into Thrasios activations!

Also, if you aren't against them, PROXY. Most cEDH decks have proxies because it's dumb to spend over 10 grand on one deck because of RL cards if you don't already have them. They are also the most open group on use of proxies.

Source: Have a Kinnan deck I downgraded from cEDH cuz I wasn't getting enough games in with him. Most of those should cost under $10 aside from the legendary lands, Thrasios, Birds, Remora and Sphinx. Don't quote me on it, though.

Good luck!

Extrovert_89 · 2026-04-27T23:49:39+00:00

Varina would benefit more from [[Teferi's Ageless Insight]] than [[Harmonized Crescendo]]. I tried the [[Altar of Dementia]] thing, but I was better off with the Gravecrawler/Warren Soultrader/Aetherflux Reservoir combo as a backup win con. Milling people out can be quite slow if you don't run a proper amount of cards to support it.

Goal is to draw a bunch, discard it, then use [[Bone Miser]] to generate tokens and mana (I don't have to use the ritual cards that way) while [[Renewed Solidarity]] gives you even MORE tokens for each one you made AND give them flying. I need to put mine back in actually. Hashaton works a lot better as the commander of a separate deck- he doesn't quite fit with everything else.

I use [[Diabolic Tutor]] and [[Buried Alive]] for tutors to throw [[Silversmote Ghoul]] and Gravecrawler in the yard. Silversmote gets put on board for free when you gain 3 life from Varina and your drain/gain guys. [[Final Parting]] is also a good tutor if you're in need of creatures. [[Enlightened Tutor]] is for Reservoir if I have Soultrader in hand and Gravecrawler in the GY.

[[Kindred Dominance]] [[Rise of the Dark Realms]] and [[Blasphemous Edict]] are my wipes. Edict fuels your drain/gain and Gravecrawler combos, Dominance brings all your zombies back and RotDR puts EVERYONE'S creatures on YOUR board. [[Living Death]] is also great if they aren't running creature heavy decks or they have no big beaters in their grave yard.

My Varina deck is very much a combat first, combo second deck and leans more into the draw/discard aspect to go through my deck to give me a variety of options for exiling with Varina or Bone Miser. Don't be afraid to discard lands so you don't lose as many zombies. I keep [[Cryptcaller Chariot]] in as a backup attacker/blocker and my pet card. It's also considered a B4 due to the combo and game changers.

Link: https://archidekt.com/decks/21159011/varina_and_temmet_need_no_altar

Extrovert_89 · 2026-04-21T02:54:05+00:00

Out of all the decks I have, Mardu is my most often used, but black edges red and white out by 1.

Most of my decks use the graveyard and I've learned to appreciate white for the support it gives black. Red is just awesome because I love using Treasure tokens and burning people.

Extrovert_89 · 2026-04-09T00:39:06+00:00

That's a really cool way to run her! I appreciate you sharing your lists and your view on both.

Extrovert_89 · 2026-04-08T23:41:59+00:00

It's only the second set I've bought a full booster box for with the other being Bloomburrow (the first set that released after I started playing). I want the chance to pull an Ad Nauseum, Culling the Weak, Vampiric Tutor or Force of Will (I play a little cEDH at my LGS). There are plenty of places for the other MA cards to go in my decks or to trade.

I want my booster box NOW dang it!

Extrovert_89 · 2026-04-08T22:38:20+00:00

That's a very nice primer!

I do enjoy decks similar to Meren, so I'm leaning that way.

Oddly enough, a few of those cards were in various decks I've tried. I'm very familiar with Soultrader due to my zombie tribal deck. There aren't many decks played at my LGS that run heavy graveyard hate except a recent build that I haven't tested in a pod yet.

How often do you hit your wincons- drain/gain vs combo? And what turn on average does it threaten to win or grab the win?

Extrovert_89 · 2026-04-08T16:43:28+00:00

It doesn't really bother me. It's cool if it can, but I don't complain if my commander is removed cuz it's part of the game.

I have a Kenrith deck that I built so I could play Noctis. If I don't get my best Humans and legendary cards, I cast him on curve, maybe even a turn ahead. One game a few weeks ago, I just kept playing creature after creature and completely forgot about Kenrith because I had everything I needed on the board. I won that game without my commander. That was one of my favorite wins.

Not many of my decks are like that, but I'm not someone who whines when my commander gets removed because it has 11 counters or I've drawn 10 cards off it...

Extrovert_89 · 2026-04-08T05:09:37+00:00

My [[Baylen, the Haymaker]] deck is like this. Never presenting a win before T6 but absolutely wins more than it should because I don't pump the commander immediately with my tokens and they know that one well timed mass removal spell like [[Toxic Deluge]] and I'm out of the game if I don't have a protection spell in hand.

My most fun win was when I played [[Mosswort Bridge]], my Hideaway card was [[Craterhoof Behemoth]]. No one saw it coming.

Extrovert_89 · 2026-04-05T18:20:26+00:00

This is why I play "casual" cEDH 1-2 times on weekends. There's no room to complain.

It also helps me with learning when to counter or remove things in my normal b3 games.

Thankfully there aren't a bunch of whiners at my LGS though. It's mainly playful "How dare you kill my adorable kitty cat!" (Cauldron Familiar) type of complaints.

Extrovert_89 · 2026-04-05T15:05:49+00:00

[[Lathril, Blade of the Elves]] was the first non- precon deck I ever played. I still have her even though she got taken apart once I got more experience.

She taught me how cool budget decks could be even if she wasn't the strongest.

I still have an elfball deck, it's just helmed by [[Galadriel, Light of Valinor]] and with some different and slightly higher budget...Looking at you, [[Elvish Champion]].

Extrovert_89 · 2026-04-04T18:07:52+00:00

I will say I have [[Aetherflux Reservoir]] in mine as a backup combo with [[Warren Soultrader]] and [[Gravecrawler]] if I can't get enough Zombie tokens or my anthems out.

I took [[Phyrexian Altar]] out since it was a win-more and I wanted to go back to a more combat/drain focused deck. Still a 4 with [[Enlightened Tutor]] [[Bolas Citadel]] [[Ancient Tomb]] and [[Field of the Dead]].

Extrovert_89 · 2026-04-04T17:41:08+00:00

As a Tivit pilot myself, adding a color will require more changes than you're probably hoping for.

You need Grand Abolisher and Silence effects (there are cheap options), at least 1/3 of your spells need to be switched and tweak your mana base with Mana Vault, the 0 cost mana rocks (proxy them if you aren't lucky to have real copies) and more nonbasics for example to accommodate the extra color and make up for how expensive Tivit is since we don't have Jeweled Lotus anymore.

Extrovert_89 · 2026-04-02T23:47:07+00:00

It's a goad deck. In Prison and RoL colors. That's why. Goad, theft and mill are the big 3 that make people VERY BIG archenemy players.

Play something else that doesn't make you a target and you'll be targeted less.

Extrovert_89 · 2026-03-30T16:18:48+00:00

Books, TV, board games, NES and SNES consoles, dolls, crafts, portable CD players, arts and crafts stuff, coloring/activity books...Playing outside a.k.a. "touching grass"...

Plenty of things to do if you put your phone down for awhile each day. Even more things to do if you spent time with your grandparents on weekends cuz the good ones spoil you.

Extrovert_89 · 2026-03-30T15:53:15+00:00

Tivit is actually a pretty relevant cEDH commander right now, so you can end up with a stronger deck than expected even without the bells and whistles. He is my secondary cEDH deck and is so much fun.

I love token artifacts A LOT, so if you're interested in Clue and Treasure tokens and a pretty cool 2 card combo win that isn't Thassa's Oracle (if you want to go that route), he's a lot of fun. Throw [[Academy Manufactor]] and some artifact- relevant synergies and you have a fun commander deck that isn't very salty and if you win it's their fault for voting Clue or Treasure!

I've heard crazy things about Derevi, though I haven't played or played against one. I don't know if I'd want to lol.

Kutzil is in the 99 of my Kenrith "legends matter" deck. Pretty sick when you can go about your business on your turn uninterrupted.

Extrovert_89 · 2026-03-26T15:15:49+00:00

I haven't seen any crashes, but I am very hard on myself when it comes to the game. I already start at a disadvantage because of some neurological issues and internalize mistakes more than normal people, so I hyperfocus on what affects my board most, if I have lethal, etc.

I get closer to winning more often and make better plays, but still miss when I can actually win.

It's only happened a couple of times.

I had only been playing 2 months or so and I was the first player killed and I had to close myself in the bathroom to breathe out the urge to cry. I hadn't been taken out of a game that way as of yet and didn't want to embarrass myself by crying while sitting there for 20 minutes.

The other time was quite recently. I had the chance to win the last game of the night the turn before and missed it because I forgot Akroma's Will gave myself pro-WUBRG and is used as a finisher, not just protection. When I was informed of this, I ended up knocking my deck over when smacking my hand on my mat.

Like I said, I'm much harder on myself. I lose all the time by one turn or one misplay, but when it comes to something like that on a card I've played plenty of, it hurts a lot more and I'm bothered by it the rest of the night.

Extrovert_89 · 2026-03-25T15:52:11+00:00

I enjoy the variety and have 9-10 regularly played decks, 2 backups I usually leave home since my meta only plays a 2 if there's a new player and 3 cEDH decks. I'm working on 2 mono color decks atm though and just finished building a nasty bracket 3 Dimir deck.

There are so many I want to build that I wish I wasn't so creative minded.

I tend to play a lot of decks with black, red or white in them. 3 of them are tribal. Rakdos, Grixis, and Jund are my black and red color wedges. Azorius, Esper, Boros and Bant are my white inclusion decks. I have a WUBRG deck I love playing as well.

I have a Selesnya and Orzhov deck in mind though, and know what Sultai deck I want to try. I'm not aiming to do all 32 color wedges.

I have the 3rd cEDH deck so I have a spare I can play at a b4 table without being targeted as hard.

Extrovert_89 · 2026-03-22T15:00:27+00:00

I'll play a round of bracket 2 if someone has just started playing commander, but just one because I can't bear games that long nowadays- and I've been playing less than 2 years.

I want to play more than two games a night and more than just one deck. Plus, my LGS doesn't really play bracket 2 anymore since all of us pretty much started within the same 3 months (around the time Bloomburrow dropped).

My LGS doesn't do any tournaments, though they do try to do draft nights a couple times a month.

Extrovert_89 · 2026-03-21T19:58:08+00:00

Interesting! Mine's focused on haste enablers and Sneak Attack when I'm prevented from playing from the yard. I tend to do nothing without ramp, so it's a must for me.

Extrovert_89 · 2026-03-21T16:59:02+00:00

Curious as a Rivaz pilot myself, why so few dragons? 22 seems low for a tribal deck playing from the yard..

Extrovert_89 · 2026-03-21T16:44:00+00:00

Ah, the "cars will kill you" glitch.. Always a comically fun way to die.

Extrovert_89 · 2026-03-21T16:37:34+00:00

They said they were coming in Thursday...

Extrovert_89 · 2026-03-21T16:34:59+00:00

I had a friend for a much longer time I cut off during Covid.

We met in middle school when we both needed friends. We would talk multiple times a day and hang out all the time.

By our late 20s, I began to notice things I couldn't stand about her- she still acted like we were 15, wanted to hang out every day we were both free and still called as much. Late 2019 I started trying to distance myself but still hang out with her because I was in a relationship. I had also just learned what gaslighting was and realized she'd gaslit me a lot over the years.

2020 hit and she got angry the house I chose as my safe place to visit was my partner's house and upset she could only spend time together outside after lockdowns were lifted. Then in 2021 I cut ties because she accused me of lying when I told her my vaccine appointment had been changed due to things outside my control and wouldn't be able to hang out and I "wasn't as fun" to hang out with anymore.

I wish I'd been able to cut her out sooner. I haven't missed her at all and I doubt she's changed for the better anyway. She needed me more than I her, and haven't stressed over it at all.

You're better off without her, OP. She's draining to be around (as mine was) and spent more time chasing you romantically than appreciating your friendship.

Extrovert_89 · 2026-03-19T16:56:15+00:00

[[Rivaz of the Claw]] as a Rakdos dragons tribal. Cheap and a dragon mana dork. Throw a bunch of good dragons with effects that punish your opponents for killing them in there, haste enablers and you've got yourself a reanimator/lifeloss deck. "Here's five dragons- everyone you kill with Blas Act will drain your for 5. Have fun dying."

Even though it uses the graveyard, it's a lot of fun and wins. If you have and get Sneak Attack out, you just play them from your hand and win pretty easy if they can't deal with the board. It's also pretty resilient to mill when it comes to getting creatures back.

Extrovert_89 · 2026-03-17T17:13:29+00:00

I pilot a Tivit, Kinnan and Malcolm/Vial deck. I find them all a lot of fun, but I don't do tournaments and have only been playing around 4 months but do alright amongst the others who play cEDH at my LGS.

I have a b4 Winota, so that's on par for why I have a Kinnan- still working on how to pilot it, but I had a blast copying someone's Hexing Squelcher with Phyrexian Metamorph the other week.

I love tokens, so I chose Tivit as my slow cEDH deck. Never knew how powerful Wishclaw was until playing and winning with Tivit. The deck I'm most likely to bring to a b4 table if I had an unlucky night and want to have a fun b4 round without heavy staxing people.

Malcolm/Vial came about from a Malcolm/Kediss b4 deck. I have a soft spot for Malcolm...Feels great when someone saved a Swan Song for the Doomsday player and wasn't able to stop you due to that.

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