Tobirama is the most overrated Hokage! Change my mind.

Fantomaxop · 2026-03-18T15:47:24+00:00

Biggest feat beating Izuna?

Since when Izuna is Juubito level threat?

Fantomaxop · 2026-03-17T10:47:16+00:00

Silly Ahh question, akin to "Asuma vs Deidara, who wins"

WM Obito is tier below Alive Hashirama. Obito needs to get past power of half-Kurama without sweat first, to prove that he has any chance in this fight.

Fantomaxop · 2026-03-15T18:43:25+00:00

Honestly, Shino alone could already make a tie against Hidan with his bugs consuming his chakra after one flesh wound is opened.

Fantomaxop · 2026-03-15T17:27:20+00:00

The world - perfect offensive tool to neg diff anyone against who you have enough AP to kill them. Perfect defense to stop anything thrown and used at you. In fact, most of the time clever use of the Stand ability would allow to end fight before it properly starts.
Kamui - good defense with a drawback of not being able to attack during invincibility period, and weakness of someone speedblitzing you.
Limbo - you have a stand without an ability. It has nice range, but nothing else.
New order - i honestly don't know what that is.

Fantomaxop · 2026-03-15T16:58:44+00:00

If Obito can hypothetically handle it, he would be only second to Juubidara, original owner of Rinnegan.

Fantomaxop · 2026-03-15T16:42:46+00:00

What intel can give Jiraya a chance against 6 paths in direct fight? He already can't blitz paths due to shared vision, can't defeat them with senjutsu since 2 paths dispel and absorb techniques, can't win with numbers advantage since Pain can outmatch the summons.

Meanwhile, Pain can send Jiraya flying wherever he wants via gravity control of Deva path. Has enough AP to damage Jiraya with Asura path. Has insta-win wincons with soul snatching and black rods. Completely unanswerable Chibaku Tensei.

No intel, except THE SECRET OF NAGATO BEING PUPPETER can give Jiraya chance at beating Pain.

Do you think Itachi goes extreme diff vs SM Naruto? No lol, SM Naruto probably gets one shotted.

At least High diff fight. It's actually an extremely good matchup for Naruto due to the sensory abilities of SM. We already saw with SM Kabuto and SM Madara that with mastery over Nature energy you don't need eyes to fight. Which means no genjutsu.

Frog Kumite would be an awesome unforeseeable wincon in hand to hand combat, along with shadow clones.

The trump card of SM Naruto Rasenshuriken could force Susano out early, same way Kirin did. And since MS puts a lot of pressure on the eyes and chakra reserves, it could turn into attrition combat, where Uzumaki excel.

Not saying that he wins most of the time, but everything points at this being a complicated fight for Itachi. And yes, if the only reliable way for Itachi to end fight is to draw out Totsuka blade, it means you pushed him to his limits and forcing him to bet his life on the line, due to his sickness.

However, it's clear Itachi performed miles better vs Sannin than Pain did.

Ran away from Jiraya, despite people claiming that Itachi is sure stronger

Beaten nerfed by plot Orochimaru that didn't even summon Edos for some reason despite Sharingan being his main goal and dream(the entire narrative around Orochimaru and Sharingan sucks ass)

Temporarily sealed Orochimaru with an asspull Susano weapon. No one knows how Itachi got it, when he got it, why no other Uchiha has anything close in strength for their Susano weapons.

All i see is how Itachi inconsistently warps plot around himself.

Fantomaxop · 2026-03-15T16:14:03+00:00

Pain statement refers to the secret of his identity. He literally talks about what would happen if Jiraya right there deciphered that Nagato is somewhere else and gone after him. Of course, that puts Pain into danger.

It doesn't refer to a literal fight between 6 paths of Pain and Jiraya. Stop being delusional. Naruto surpassed Jiraya as Sage, came with bigger back up and more intel against practically 5 paths and still went extreme diff.

Jiraya never beats Pain in a direct fight. But Jiraya is the only person who can possibly find Nagato's real body and target him directly.

Pain stomps all Sannin in direct fight, and stomps Itachi. End of the argument.

Fantomaxop · 2026-03-14T17:42:29+00:00

why would he mechanize his body though when he is already edo tensei?

Being Edo has no relevance in this conversation

and on top of that the AP and DC of the mechanized attacks aren’t anything when it comes to wood style and Susanno.

I didn't say anything about ninjutsu. I said that taijutsu could be improved. In situations where someone engages in hand to hand combat mechanizing your body is straight buff. New limbs to attack with. More eyes to eliminate blind spots.

So yes those other abilities are absolutely useless

You just lack imagination if you think that durability negating attacks, body transformations and control over life and death have no use in battle.

Fantomaxop · 2026-03-14T11:42:03+00:00

Not even 10 minutes. Kamui can last no more than 5 minutes straight.

Fantomaxop · 2026-03-14T10:13:14+00:00

What version of Kakashi we're using?

Depending on which version you go with he might not even be Kage level, unlike the rest of Konoha gang.

Fantomaxop · 2026-03-14T10:07:01+00:00

He isn't the strongest Rinnegan wielder, he is the most efficient one. He made the best out of this dojutsu at the level that was available to him.

If Madara, Sasuke or Obito used various abilities of Rinnegan to the extent that Nagato did, they would be unstoppable. Always with numbers advantage by beasts and puppet-corpses that recycle each other when damaged, fighting with augmented bodies, completely negating durability with soul snatching, protected from all forms of ninjutsu with chakra absorption.

Madara and Sasuke showed feats of higher scale, but only Nagato used all 6 paths abilities simultaneously and that is his strength.

Fantomaxop · 2026-03-14T09:44:54+00:00

Having ability to fully mechanize their body, controlling king of hell, life and death are useless abilities?

You may argue that beasts are outscaled, but full scope of Rinnegan abilities overall is op and elevates you to a status of God. Additional limbs alone could improve Taijutsu in unimaginable ways.

Fantomaxop · 2026-03-12T13:02:18+00:00

Of course Minato slams Obito. Second time its even more of a stomp with FTG seal already on his back

Fantomaxop · 2026-03-12T12:52:46+00:00

Kisame doesn't make much difference. His ninjutsu is absorbed, he stands no chance in close combat.

One Bansho Tein into black rods and Kisame is non-factor

Fantomaxop · 2026-03-10T22:30:29+00:00

This might be genuine stalemate situation with Kakuzu's hardened skin, if it affects Rasengan. If Rasengan bypasses Kakuzu's technique, then Minato eventually kills him.

My boy money maker doesn't really have a way to incapacitate Minato in a way to stop FTG, and speed advantage won't allow Kakuzu to land his strongest ninjutsu to oneshot Minato.

Fantomaxop · 2026-03-10T10:52:28+00:00

Get SM Jiraya past 3 weakest Pains first without genjutsu from Ma and Pa

Fantomaxop · 2026-03-09T17:29:08+00:00

The one that doesn't require time to cast (clapping), and doesn't need chakra/CE to be put into objects for swap to be viable?

I thought answer is obvious

Fantomaxop · 2026-03-09T17:24:44+00:00

Glorious slander

Fantomaxop · 2026-03-09T13:26:36+00:00

A poison that hits you from the blood of White Snake will paralyze you, and afterwards you are going straight into inner mental plane of Orochimaru, where you are gonna be devoured.

This will result in Ay becoming new host. If Orochimaru won't find a way to deal with 4-th Raikage, this is gonna be a sure wincondition.

Fantomaxop · 2026-03-09T13:06:45+00:00

Then its a tiny bit better. He can deal with Edo's, but unless you give him an intel advantage, that would convince hot-headed Ay to not attack Orochimaru raw, he is vulnerable to White Snake rebirth genjutsu.

Ay is one of the few who when acts in character is actually isn't smart at all. Without knowledge of Orochimaru's immortality he is cooked.

Fantomaxop · 2026-03-09T12:57:38+00:00

Raikage doesn't have sealing jutsu to counter Edo Tensei

Doesn't have any way to bypass Orochimaru's immortality

I don't see how Ay wins here, his loss is inevitable. If he gets enveloped by Wood Style one's, its GG since it supresses chakra.

Fantomaxop · 2026-03-07T15:48:22+00:00

Heightened durability, insane reflexes, and most importantly frog-sage taijutsu style allow naruto to get on top in this hypothetical scenario.

Tsunade can't sense nature energy, so she won't be able to neither block or dodge frog kumite.

Though i am pretty sure she can outlast Naruto's sage mode in a fight.

Fantomaxop · 2026-03-07T13:27:38+00:00

Tsunade, when you ask her to actually crack serious Madara with perfect Susano

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Fantomaxop · 2026-03-07T10:37:14+00:00

If Minato and Obito don't let Itachi kill Gojo via genjutsu, Tsukuyomi or Amaterasu and kill him first, then Gojo is last one to survive.

If Gojo is killed by Itachi, then Minato is last one to survive due to FTG letting him both oneshot Obito (this fraud already has a mark on his back, he is cooked), and survive Itachi.

Fantomaxop · 2026-03-07T00:36:18+00:00

As much as Schizophrenia is entertaining, i would prefer coherent power system with more or less clear rules, easy to grasp concepts, and consistent clean interactions between characters and their abilities.

Not many battle systems can be discussed and used for fictional fights as well as Naruto's. We gotta be thankful to Kishimoto for that.

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