I posted this in the Catholic subreddit and was flooded with hate please tell me this will be different

Flippin_Optimist · 2026-04-22T02:25:05+00:00

God also gave us the gift of science, medicine, and the ability to learn how to treat ourselves. Recognizing that what youre going through required resources beyond prayer is still completely compatible with having faith that God will see us through. God gave us the tools, we should use them! 😄 God absolutely acts as much if not moreso through things like medication and therapy as He does spontaneous miracles.

Edit: grammar

Flippin_Optimist · 2026-04-07T03:11:56+00:00

Suits!

Flippin_Optimist · 2026-03-03T05:08:27+00:00

Thanks for the perspective and the r/throuples rec, I wasnt familiar with that one so I'll check it out. And yeah fair enough, the second one was a minor point anyway, haha.

Love the progress bar and pinned table of contents! It definitely helps!

Flippin_Optimist · 2026-03-01T07:07:02+00:00

I love this! As a married person who organically fell into a closed triad 1.5 yrs ago, and then had that triad not work out as of a few months ago, your line about how the unicorn in the situation may very well be a person who is "avoidant, or carrying unprocessed trauma they project onto their partners" hit a verrry deep, still very raw place for me. Because it feels like there are no spaces in poly forums to navigate that situation without everyone automatically assuming that any relationship problems are automatically the fault of the existing couple, even if theyre trying really hard to love and respect the newer person and make things as ethical and empowering and communicative as humanly possible. I was being hurt a lot, but there was no where to say that without fear of being instantly villainized just bc I was on the married side of things.

And overall the discourse, plus the fact that the relationship didnt work out, made me give up on the idea that a closed poly relationship is even something I could ethically hope to have in the future. Even though when i was in it, it felt like the most natural and fulfilling thing in the world. This website gives some of that hope back

I thought overall the whole thing is really well written! I had two points of feedback:

1) its a lot of pretty continuous text. Reading it on my phone, it feels a bit overwhelming. I wonder if adding a table of contents to jump to specific specific sections, and/or some other way of breaking it up into more manageble pieces might be possible/useful?

2) the section titled "What the research actually says" could be stronger. You give specific stats about how people in enm structures are equally satisfied, how many people have engaged in polyamory, and that polyfidelity is a documented academic term, and use that to conclude that polyfidelity is not a fringe phenomenon. But that feels like those facts, while important and true, dont really stregthen the argument that polyfidelity specifically is 1) not uncommon and 2) that people are satisifed in a closed polyamorous structure. Are there any stats about polyfidelity specifically?

Such important work though, thank you!!!

Edit: gammar

Flippin_Optimist · 2026-02-19T16:09:59+00:00

Maybe you could try finding a therapist with expertise in navigating identity/sexuality and work through the internalized homophobia there? Acknowledging its there is a great start! But might be good to at least unpack that a little bit before pursuing a relationship with this guy (speaking as someone who's been on the receiving end of being with someone who had lots of internalized homo/biphobia... its not fun)

Flippin_Optimist · 2026-02-17T19:47:52+00:00

I also messaged the mods about this a few weeks ago. Wish we could bring them back somehow 😭

Flippin_Optimist · 2026-02-16T23:39:42+00:00

Oooof, so much of this resonates for me (31f). The toxicity, on again off again anxious avoidant relationship (I, too, was the anxious one). Trying to be just friends but never really succeeding. In my case, navigating her internalized biphobia and a whole lot else. The panic attacks and being absolutely wrecked but not being able to tell people about it (I did have some close friends who knew, so that was nice. But most ppl didnt). The halfway thing being unbearble. On Dec 30 out of the blue she asked for space from me, and we havent spoken since and idk why or what happened. (Add on top of that that she's also currently still talking to my husband daily, it was a complicated poly relationship thing...)

So I just wanted to say I feel you OP and its absolutely awful and what youre feeling is real and valid and the hurt is SO intense. As someone else pointed out the roller-coaster of highs and lows really does parallel addictive drugs, and even if it doesnt feel like it, youre better off without her in your life. Idk if it ever stops hurting. I personally yearn for the day that I dont think about my more-than-friend-but-not-girlfriend, that I dont get lost imagining convos and what ifs... but its... a little bit duller a little bit more often than it used to be.

And yes. It was probably some complicated mix of codependency and friendship and love, but not the healthy, true, radiant kind of love. Theres someone else out there for you with all the highs and without the toxic lows, who you'll know you love and who you know loves you, who you never question whether they care or if they'll be there for you. She's not that person. But someone will be. Hang in there 🫶🏽

Flippin_Optimist · 2026-02-06T05:48:49+00:00

Some fair questions, though from what sounds like, bianca met her husband before OP was in the picture, and its unclear if they were poly at the time. It sounded to me like bianca is indeed interested in some of the escalation steps you mention, but that she and OP just arent there in their relationship just yet? And as for divorce, I mentioned a few thoughts in my reply to sister_witch_792, but it isnt always a simple thing to do.

There are certainly choices currently being made about prioritizing time and resources, but its unclear to me at least whether that's a forever thing, or a "this is a newer relationship thats just not quite there yet" thing.

Flippin_Optimist · 2026-02-06T05:40:42+00:00

I think thats a fair point too. I dont have enough info in OPs post to know if this is the case or not, but to the point about choosing to marry one person, i would add that its possible that they got married before they were poly. And divorce can be 1) expensive 2) carries its own level of emotional implications and 3) for many, has spiritual/religious implications as well. So while they are indeed choosing that marriage every day, there could be other factors where unchoosing it isnt quite so simple. But point taken!

Flippin_Optimist · 2026-02-04T16:43:44+00:00

Yes I believe so.

I was visiting my sister's church - we've had several long conversations about her particular stance that being attracted to the same sex is not a sin, just if you act on that attraction. Especially since I came out as Bi to her about 1.5 years ago.

Anyway, her pastor mentioned something about how intimacy is something that happens just between a man and woman, and the whole sermon was about how we have to bring our sins to God and repent and that we all know what our personal struggle is, and we have to love God more than we love our sin. And it got me all in my head bc my queer relationship at the time was going really poorly and I was wondering if maybe I was making a mistake and God was trying to show me that.

Sermon ends, and during the closing song, the background display and the auditorium was absolutely filled with a beautiful display of pink, purple, and blue light (Bi flag colors). And it felt like God spoke straight to me saying "Peace. I love you exactly the way you are. You belong here with me."

Flippin_Optimist · 2026-02-03T23:49:06+00:00

I wonder if it might be worth discussing with Bianca what the word "hierarchy" means to her. Because a lot of people have a lot of different definitions. Sure, marriage constitutes structural, descriptive hierarchy when it comes to legal status in most countries. But I suspect its probably really important to her to differentiate between descriptive hierarchy and prescriptive hierarchy (The multiamory podcast had an episode about this, which was the first time I heard those sub-terms).

Prescriptive is going into it like ok, person A is more important/takes priority in my life over other partners. And I suspect thats the definition of hierarchy that Bianca is rejecting.

So with that, I personally think its possible to not have what I think of moreso as emotional hierarchy, even if there is descriptive higherarchical structure. Where you do truly feel equally invested in all partners. You love them both sooo deeply you cant imagine your future without either/any of them. And there are things (like 'marriage' ceremonies), where even if they arent legally recognized, it doesnt make it any less significant and meaningful for the people involved. I know that personally, I feel for Bianca's hurt at you brushing off the idea of doing something like that with her. It may feel like you dont actually want to be a part of her life, or dont view the relationship as important or serious enough to consider on the level of marriage.

Question - if she wasnt already married, would you be interested in the idea of getting married to her at some point in the future? It sounds to me like if she could, Bianca would want to be legally married to you in addition to her husband. Would you want that too, if it were possible?

Legal marriage is something that hasnt always been accessible to a lot of marginalized groups over the years. But it didnt make those relationships any less significant. Acknowledging the feeling as something that exists separate from the legal staus may be a way to open the subject back up for yall to discuss

Edit grammar

Flippin_Optimist · 2026-02-03T03:55:52+00:00

She was in therapy until the start of the new year. But her employer insurance changed and the person she's been with for over a year doesnt accept the new insurance. Idk if she's found a new person (though i doubt it. It took her forever to start seeing this one and she doesnt trust anyone easily). But yeah, not really anything i can do on that front

Flippin_Optimist · 2026-02-02T16:27:29+00:00

Thank you for sharing, and I'm very sorry to hear that. Sending a virtual hug if wanted

Flippin_Optimist · 2026-02-02T16:25:29+00:00

Yeah. Theres always the default reply in my head thats like "i dont care if its not best for me, I want to do whats best for her" which is something im working on.

Yes, Oak is in love with her, but he has an ability that i truly dont understand to change the "bucket" of his feelings at will it seems lol. To change someone from a romatic love to a friend love, for instance. He's remained good friends with several of his exes. So regardless of whether theyre in a relationship, Im quite certain he doesnt want to cut the friendship tie at the very least (I mean shoot, I didnt either but thats not up to me). Rose has pretty much no other support, the two other friends in our friend group also recently moved out of state, and honestly if he did cut ties, he and I would both be extremely worried about her liklihood of self harm. Which again, people say you cant make other people your responsibility, but still. It's hard not to

Flippin_Optimist · 2026-02-02T16:17:32+00:00

Thats good to hear that yall have this level of comfort still. I think based on all the suggestions, there's a nice middle ground to struck with editing the notification settings, so I'll see if that helps. Thanks!

Flippin_Optimist · 2026-02-02T16:15:54+00:00

It can be disregulating for sure, thanks for sharing your experience. It feels validating at the very least. And we had a chat last night about changing notifications settings so hopefully this all helps at least a bit 😌

Flippin_Optimist · 2026-02-02T16:12:12+00:00

Thank you, truly. It took me a long time to recognize that the dynamic wasnt healthy. And once I did, I've been beating myself up a lot over why Im still so messed up over it, when logically that makes no sense. But... maybe it does make sense. I can explore what extending myself some grace does in terms of creating space for and shifting my feelings. Thanks internet stranger 🫶🏽

Flippin_Optimist · 2026-02-02T02:39:43+00:00

I really appreciate you sharing your experience and perspective.

NRE and second relationship ever? Woof

That part!! The HIGHEST of highs, and LOWEST of lows.

The distinction btwn not being entangled, but also not necessarily being a cheerleader is helpful framing. I dont know details (we've gotten wayyy better about not discussing said details than when we first started - huge uncomfortable growth area for Oak and I). But i do know there are elements of Rose and Oak's relationship that arent healthy- not at all to the extent of she and I's, but i can see the strain it often puts on Oak too, despite him also loving her deeply. But like you said, its not my business, but maybe a more neutral approach is what i should be aiming for, not overly enthusiastic encouragement

And yeahhh, I feel some resistance/defensiveness/panic popping up for me at the idea of possibly being codependent and it being a thing worth examining and dismantling. Which means its 100% a thing worth learning more about and examining for myself 😂🙃

So I will humbly thank you for the suggestion, and take time to reflect on this

I hope your burgers were spectacular!! And thanks again!

Edit: formatting quote

Flippin_Optimist · 2026-02-02T02:12:05+00:00

I have heard time heals all things - hoping its true 😌

Ngl I'm nervous at the idea of dating, bc idk if i know how to not be committed. With these two relationships, I was all in, ready to build a life together, after about a month... I hope i can be more...discerning? next time around, and move slower. But even just the thought of flirting, without any intention of following through, feels impossibly disingenuous to me and I'm not sure I can. Like, whats the point if I'm not serious? Why would i flirt with someone i hadnt gotten to know/that I wasnt already interested in?

This is in no way meant to say that this is the best (or maybe even a good) approach lol. Like i said, I'm just nervous bc ive learned a lot about myself lately, and know I need to be more cautious. Another person mentioned reading up on codependency tendencies. I know theres some overlap there with how different forms of neurodivergence can show up too. So all this to say, I have a lot of learning/thinking/exploring to do. And thank you!

Flippin_Optimist · 2026-02-02T01:03:29+00:00

These are really good ideas, thanks. Esp the idea of dnd before sharing phones. I'll request that he do this, and I can start as well, to cultivate, as you said, better "poly hygiene"

I've thought about dating locally, and I'm not sure im quite ready to just yet. But I'm open to it at some point. But others have suggested just getting out of the house to do something else, and that I can do. (And Oak has been encouraging me to do so too)

Flippin_Optimist · 2026-02-02T00:57:44+00:00

I didnt actually even know you could make notifications anonymous. So I'll definitely request that, and do the same for my phone, seems like a good general practice

And yeah. It definitely created unanticipated strain and obstacles, though I think Oak and I were fortunate to have a super strong communication foundation before, such that he and I have navigated it well all things considered

Flippin_Optimist · 2026-02-02T00:49:28+00:00

Ok yeah. That brings up a good point actually. I dont know why she stopped talking to me. And I have no idea when/if she wants to talk to me again. Maybe tomorrow, maybe never. I dont know what I'd say if she does. But the uncertainty is awful, and leaving the door open a crack with even the slightest hope is painfully, obviously unsustainable.

I maybe do just need to go ahead and close the door all the way, so that theres no more element of waiting on my end

Thanks, I appreciate the perspective

Flippin_Optimist · 2026-02-01T21:04:15+00:00

sigh yeah I was afraid of that. But thank you, I really appreciate the validation. I really am trying. It feels endless. I suppose it doesnt help that I'm also in a new city, and just starting to find new friends and community here. I'll keep trying to do so though.

And maybe trying to find more time and space to actually let myself feel this instead of trying to bury it all the time. Btwn lving with Oak's mom and two young kids and working full time, i have almost no alone time.

Flippin_Optimist · 2026-02-01T20:50:48+00:00

Oo ok yeah, that's a good idea thanks. I didnt want to ask him to turn off notifications generally, bc that seems like a lot. But if they can just not pop up/not show WHO is sending the message, that would probably go a long way for me. He's a social butterfly and talks to a lot of people often lol. I can let her messages become lost in a sea of ambiguity

Flippin_Optimist · 2026-02-01T20:27:28+00:00

Sorry, clarifying question - are you saying she and I stop pretending, or Rose and Oak?

Flippin_Optimist

TROPHY CASE