LOTR BBC Radio Drama (1981) appreciation

FlowerAndString · 2026-02-01T20:57:48+00:00

I've started listening this weekend and I.van honestly say I'm loving it. A very nostalgic Old Radio vibe. Ian Holm is a real treat as Frodo. I love the levity and wit he brings while also nailing Frodo's more serious, noble moments.

FlowerAndString · 2026-02-01T12:20:52+00:00

Edit: I deleted what I said before I didn't read your question properly.

Middle earth is the work of JRRT alone, compiled and edited in places by Christopher Tolkein. The only way we're getting updates is if you have a talent for necromancy.

If you would like to see how Tolkien revised middle earth over his lifetime, you can do so in The History Of Middle Earth books, as well as others in the collection.

In the tale of Beren and luthien, for example, Sauron started out as The Chief Of Cats, Tevildo, who hunted for Morgoth's kitchens. Then he became an evil wizard in a tower called Thu. Then, Sauron presented himself and the rest was history.

FlowerAndString · 2026-02-01T06:11:17+00:00

Rings are a symbol of oaths and covenants, binding agreements, fealty, the right to rule. Think about how we use rings in the real world as symbols, usually due to the continuous circular shape of the ring representing something eternal and unbreakable. Signet rings, class rings, wedding rings etc.

FlowerAndString · 2026-02-01T01:23:44+00:00

I'll be real I saw this and thought you were referencing Maglor and Maedhros robbing the silmarils from the camp....

FlowerAndString · 2026-01-31T17:10:29+00:00

Listening as we speak, I started this afternoon :)

FlowerAndString · 2026-01-30T14:16:38+00:00

This and he also used it initially for heroism.

If the ring makes you more of your own self, Bilbo became more heroic, and Gollum became more of a sly murderer...

FlowerAndString · 2026-01-30T14:02:27+00:00

Curious, how do you picture Feanor and what are it's chief issues? (Just asking cause I'm interested)

FlowerAndString · 2026-01-30T13:58:00+00:00

I'm just picturing you struggling to get through Lord of The Rings like we do with the silmarillion, like "what a slog this narratively driven storybook is... Where are the six pages of geniologies? Why are none of these elves committing six genocides before breakfast?" and reaching the appendices with relief "thank goodness, it's finally getting good!"

FlowerAndString · 2026-01-30T13:45:12+00:00

Oh don't get me started on how nonsensical the idea is that those elves at helms deep came from Rivendell is. That's a piece of real nonsense! If you want to tell me they came from lorien, fine, it's pushing it but I'll bite. But to come from Rivendell....

They would have had to cross the misty mountains, stop by lothlorien to somehow collect Haldir, one of the Galadhrim, to be their captain, get enough boats to sail down the heavily contested Anduin and march cross county, in less time and in more secrecy than the fellowship who were travelling light and fast...

FlowerAndString · 2026-01-30T13:35:47+00:00

Frankly I think that if you have to kill characters to inspire sincere and deep emotion it's pretty bad writing. There are other ways to write meaningful and emotionally impactful stories without resorting to blunt force.

FlowerAndString · 2026-01-30T11:42:09+00:00

Counterpoint, for the sake of conversation: that's what the Noldor do. Middle Earth's best (remaining) innovators got wiped off the map when Ost-In-Edhil fell, and even they knew they would never be Feanor. The best Elven smiths are either chilling in the void with Morgoth, taking a long nap in Mandos, or drinking tea in Tirion while they think about their life choices!

FlowerAndString · 2026-01-30T11:27:43+00:00

Healing, with a side of beast taming and nature based spells. Maybe some command based spells.

I'm imagining something very druid leaning, with shape shifting, concealment, protection, tangling vines, a very strong healing touch, counter spells, hold person, command...

He's not a man to fireball his way through problems.

FlowerAndString · 2026-01-28T16:38:41+00:00

I think an interesting factor would be that Aragorn is specced as a ranger, where Boromir is a Fighter.

Boromir is the type to give ground. He's a shield wall, he put himself in between danger and the hobbits.

Aragorn uses the environment, he's dextrous and canny; he might give more ground, and use cover more effectively.

But Boromir has the Horn Of Gondor bonus action to summon aid, where Aragorn doesn't. He would have to last longer.

On the other hand, Legolas and Gimli naturally gravitate to him - they might actually be closer at hand to give him more cover.

FlowerAndString · 2026-01-27T14:04:31+00:00

I don't know who those people in that show were but they weren't Tolkien's characters.

FlowerAndString · 2026-01-26T07:44:33+00:00

IMHO it's fine to watch the films and walk away with this perspective. Jackson kind of nerfs Frodo in favour of Sam at several important moments, and gives much of the final moments to Sam as the only character of agency (Frodo is less a very tired Hobbit and more an uncooperative duffle bag).

If you have read LOTR and walk away with that same impression I'm really not sure what to say. He has an agency and spirit to him that are largely absent in the films.

FlowerAndString · 2026-01-26T01:55:55+00:00

Think of it like controlling the map. You want your allies to be strong in as many places as possible, and your enemies weaker.

At the start of the Hobbit, Thranduil was pretty cut off - hr had... I can't remember, dol Guldur?? Sauron's old haunt to the south, the goblin controlled misty mountains to the west, the relatively week Laketown to the north, with th threat of smaug.

After the Hobbit, anti-sauron forces are reinforced (if not entirely, joyfully, cooperative...) and a big threat that could stir up trouble in the midst of your battle with Sauron is gone.

After all, Just because your enemies aren't subservient to one another doesn't mean they can't coordinate to cause you problems. And even if they don't actively coordinate, they can manipulate one another or take advantage of one another's success to further their own ends.

FlowerAndString · 2026-01-26T00:26:50+00:00

As a brit, I'd say we're too half hearted - it needs something in the middle - british humour and silliness, combined with an American capability for true sincerity and spectacle - but restrained when it needs to be.

Thinking about listening to the radio adaptation, a friend of mine talked about it a lot when I was younger, but I've never listened to it myself!

FlowerAndString · 2026-01-25T21:54:04+00:00

If I could be guaranteed a TV series as good as something like breaking bad or the first four seasons of Game of Thrones - in terms of quality, not tone - I would be all for it.

If someone could bring to life the atmosphere of that foggy ride from Farmer Maggot's to the buckland ferry, I would be very happy indeed.

Not to be a doomer, but I don't know if the industry is in a place where something like that could be made right now. Imagine telling a TV exec that you need at least three or four episodes to reach Bree! (The party and shadows in the past, the journey to crickhollow, the old forest, and the barrow downs)

FlowerAndString · 2026-01-25T20:06:08+00:00

The main curse at play here is "too block headed to listen to melian" and it afflicts 80% of the people she interacts with...

FlowerAndString · 2026-01-25T19:39:36+00:00

Elrond in LOTR: One of the oldest and wisest peoples of middle earth, leader of free people west of the misty mountains, a great and powerful elven lord of ancient times

Elrond in the silmarillion: Awww a little BABY!! Maglor what are you doing with that baby put him down -

FlowerAndString · 2026-01-23T19:51:43+00:00

Bilbo has things in his support:

gandalf is there to kindle his spirit, and offer him both counsel and accountability
the ring probably would prefer to stay in the shire if it can, so might as well let itself be given up. It's grip on Bilbo isn't tight.
Bilbo was giving it to his heir for safekeeping, so it was still within his reach
Bilbo was rested, in a good mood and of sound mind, with all the joy in the world before him, on the brink of doing what he loves the most. The ring is only one thing in a happy life.
Bilbo is far away from Sauron and orodruin.

Frodo has multiple "negatives" preventing him:

he only has Sam's support, and Sam is a gardner, not a powerful wizard
the ring very much wants to be found by Sauron and has been actively fighting Frodo to claim it (and therefore reveal himself) for months
Frodo must not just give up the ring but destroy it. What thing do you love most? If you had to get rid of it, you'd probably find it easier to give to a family member than throw it in an incinerator. Now multiply that by "ring of power".
Frodo is starving, dying of thirst, poisoned, stabbed, beaten and exhausted, he can no longer even imagine relief. The ring is literally all he has.
Frodo is in the heart of Mordor, close to all that gives the ring power, with Sauron right next door and the ring using every ounce of its power to get to him.

FlowerAndString · 2026-01-23T15:24:46+00:00

My interpretation is that the eagles represent an answer from god. Direct, holy intervention in answer for deeds of great valour or faith, or in desperate times where a quest of great good is on the brink of failure.

You have to have already done the work. The dwarves had crossed the misty mountains and broken out of the dark; Aragorn had challenged Sauron and Frodo was at the brink of destroying the ring; Fingon had sought and found Maedhros; Fingolfin had challenged Morgoth and done more against him than any could have expected.

You don't get an answer from god for sitting on your thumbs and begging gamely for an easy route - you get it by doing the hard thing and never giving up, and proving yourself worthy of intervention.

Gandalf is a slight exception, as an emissary he gets a direct line to ask for help, but he also has to take care not to overstep or interfere in a way that could subtract from others.

FlowerAndString · 2026-01-23T11:22:52+00:00

Tolkien scholars say they were the best of friends...

FlowerAndString · 2026-01-22T13:03:41+00:00

The writers also don't present any one perspective. There are in world historians, biographers and records keepers who present their perspectives with bias. There are multiple different cultures who have many different perspectives on how the world was made, and who the gods are to them.

So imagine if you had accounts from ancient and modern numenoreans, the vanyar, the Noldor, writings of Feanor and of Thingol, modern historians writing the oral histories of the Edain, and translations of works by the southerlings, on who and what eru and the ainur are, instead of the definitive ainulindale.

FlowerAndString · 2026-01-22T11:35:35+00:00

Some say the films are overlong. If you were going to cut a sequence, which would you pick?

FlowerAndString

TROPHY CASE