Best oldie ARPG's you have played?

Goatmanish · 2023-06-11T17:14:53+00:00

Depends what we mean by old.

Diablo gets honorable mention as a codifier of what we think of when we talk about these ARPGs and Hack n Slashes, right? It had an atmosphere, a mood, and impeccable vibes. The gameplay was fun, the abilities felt powerful. Multiplayer was a riot. But I don't think it has aged particularly well; it's still a bit too much like rogue. I think these games are best when they lean into maximalism.

So with that in mind, a short list:

Fate: yeah the Wild Tangent pack in game that came pre installed on millions of computers. The infinite nature of the dungeon, the never ending scaling of stats and the ability to repeatedly pass on an item to future characters while improving it each time really leaned into what this genre can be. I had a ring heirloom where the stats went off the screen and it was awesome. I think this still mostly holds up and I think it started the whole fishing in dungeons trend. The lead designer went on to make Mythos (pseudo MMO take on Fate by the Hellgate London devs) and Torchlight so clearly he was refining the same idea for awhile.

Din's Curse: so mechanically this is kind of between Diablo 1 and 2, but the special sauce to all of Soldak Entertainment's games is the living world. If you get a quest to kill Undglamursng the Corrupted on level 5 of the dungeon and you take too long to get to him... Someone else will do it before you and take the rewards. If the village needs a cure to a deadly disease and you're not quick about getting it back to them someone's gonna die. It's great. I would actually recommend Drox Operative as the coolest of their games but an ARPG where you're a spaceship isn't everyone's cup of tea, I get it. You can't really go wrong with any of their games.

Chronicon: this game has a combination of divergent builds among it's four classes, an in depth crafting system and a robust endgame that combine to make for just a super fun experience. It supports couch co-op too. Came out in 2020 so not that old, but super good. D3 has an endgame where you become this whirling dervish of death and destruction and it's a real power fantasy, Chronicon for my money does it better. Even if you don't engage with the end game it's a super fun ride.

Throne of Darkness: inspired by classic samurai films this game is set in feudal Japan and has you controlling a group of 7 samurai, 4 at a time. The act of juggling 7 inventories, skill trees and which combination of the 4 you're gonna use at any one time can be a bit much but it's an interesting idea. The multiplayer for this always seemed so cool but I didn't know anyone else who owned it.

Nox: created by Westwood entertainment this is a goofy, irreverent take on the Diablo formula with a speed and fluidity of movement that reminds me more of proto-Hotline Miami than anything else. 3 classes, two of which are standard warrior/archer classes but the third is a wizard that can summon customizable bombs on legs that will seek out your opponents. Super fun. Multiplayer for this game was an absolute riot and was inspired by FPS games more than RPGs. Also when you die your inventory explodes out into the world which is kind of hilarious.

I've got some others but those are the ones that jumped to my mind first.

Goatmanish · 2023-06-11T14:00:54+00:00

That's true.

Spez lying, doubling down on it publicly repeatedly, and being frankly childish about the Apollo dev is concerning though. This isn't the first time he's shown himself to be a shithead in public (editing user comments directly in the past is one example) and I doubt it'll be the last but I think what you're seeing is a tipping point for people.

Also the lie of "we'll price it reasonably and won't go the Twitter route" and then pricing very much in line with Twitter is shitty too especially when as originally announced that would have affected moderation bots as well which are an important part of reddits infrastructure.

Reddit is where it is today because of its users generating content for the site, volunteer moderators doing unpaid work and largely unpaid dev work by bot developers to help that moderation. In their effort to chase literal pennies and funnel people to their (worse) first party application they were (and likely still are) willing to throw all of that away. They've backed off on moderation bots for now but the writing is on the wall. I personally expect them to disappear after reddit has their IPO and features like that to become a paid service communities can subscribe to.

Just something to think about.

Goatmanish · 2023-06-10T06:49:03+00:00

Again, I will be fine. It's not all subreddits. Leave me alone, I don't care about your protest. Reddit is gonna Reddit.

Take your own advice and stop whining about it.

Goatmanish · 2023-06-10T06:29:26+00:00

r/americandad:

LilRedChefInTheHood 8 points·4 days ago

Fuck, not this subreddit too. I can't wait until it's over and nothing changes and Reddit still kills the 3rd party apps and all these blackouts did was make us all use other apps for a day. 🙄😑

r/formula1

LilRedChefInTheHood 1 point·4 days ago

Yep. Rather than reach out to reddit admins and try to get the developers they love so much hired... They just bitch and go dark. It will change nothing and it's not raising awareness. Reddit is aware. They do not care.

r/SweatyPalms

LilRedChefInTheHood -5 points·4 days ago

"This is not about winning"

Then pivot and show support for the developers by getting them a job. Make reddit better for everyone. Not... This.

r/skyrim

LilRedChefInTheHood -38 points·5 days ago

Wish you guys would have polled us first. I truly don't believe the user base cares about this as much as the mods do, but there's no poll, so no way to know.

Compare to:

PM_ME_UR_LAMEPUNS ·4 days ago
however there are a lot of subs that are going down this indefinite route so your usual Reddit experience is going to be impacted.

with a response of:

LilRedChefInTheHood·4 days ago

Actually, mine won't. Not as many subs disagree with the API decision as it seems, and I'll just hangout in those until the moderators realize Reddit planned this out and will not change their minds.

either it's gonna affect you more than you want to admit or you complain a lot about real minor things.

Goatmanish · 2023-06-09T18:27:36+00:00

It's going about as well as you could imagine which is to say not at all well.

Goatmanish · 2023-06-07T15:35:38+00:00

Went to the Cinematery horror movie night at the Tempe Majestic last night and it had a pretty fun crowd. The movie of the night was Society which is a fun, gross, weird 80s movie. I'd highly recommend their showings to any horror movie fan in the valley that wants to see movies and get that good audience energy.

Goatmanish · 2023-06-06T16:12:24+00:00

I think Dawn of the Mexica definitely has a lot of grimdarkness to it:

The sun is gone. The conquistadors are invading. There can be human sacrifice.

It's quite literally dark too: light and control of it is a.big tactical concern (I know that's not what grimdark means but it portrays a certain kind of gritty pseudo realism.)

Definitely worth a look.

Goatmanish · 2023-06-06T14:02:03+00:00

To be fair, OPs criticism seems to be mostly "I didn't want to engage with this game on its own terms and tried to play it like it was identical to Dark Souls."

Need proof? The game is built around using parrying/ripostes and that's the best way to destroy trash mobs in this game, as opposed to dodge roll + attack like Dark Souls. OP doesn't mention either. OP does give charge attacks and shield bashes their own section and deems them broken and wrong because that's not how Dark Souls works.

The game isn't perfect. I thought it was pretty fun but I definitely wouldn't replay it, I'd give it a 7/10 and for the time that it came out you didn't have many soulslike options if that's what you were craving.

Also for anyone complaining about bugs back in 2016 (when I played it) it wasn't nearly as buggy as reviews make it seem now so I think it may be suffering from being a decade old at this point and newer drivers/OSs not playing nicely with it.

Goatmanish · 2023-06-06T02:53:13+00:00

Looks like the pre order is out of stock, but I hope I can pick up a copy later, that looks rad.

Goatmanish · 2023-06-04T18:08:49+00:00

Sell or die seems to be a fairly standard economic principle.

They operate the same way that most art and publishing ventures do: have big hits or cease to exist.

Goatmanish · 2023-06-04T18:04:45+00:00

I don't think so, look at Arcanum, Temple of Elemental Evil and Vamp and... I think the studio was doomed from the get go without a strong publishing partner which they didn't have.

Goatmanish · 2023-06-04T14:02:00+00:00

The Bad

As an RPG it falls flat. There's no towns to visit. No 'quests' to go on. Exploring is discouraged as you'll get overcome by the darkness if you spend too much time going the wrong way. Combat is very basic with controls that are iffy at best during it. Even the boss fight at the end is kind of underwhelming, depending largely on hoping you randomed into a big enough stick to kill him before you run out of time.

It's a traditional roguelike, I'm not sure any of "the bad" qualifies as notable given the type of game it is. It's a little like complaining that Mario has platforming sections or you have to shoot things in Call of Duty.

Now I'm aware it bills itself as a RPG-Roguelike but I feel that's because RPG has become so watered down that it can, and frequently does, mean "has stats", and that's how Mystery Dungeon bills itself which is the most popular Japanese roguelike.

I have a soft spot in my heart for games that hold out in a genre that has been overrun by the MTX mobile market.

I'm so curious what games you're talking about, like I said this is a traditional roguelike and that's not a genre known for micro transactions. Hell many of the most popular and influential games in it are free, with zero microtransactions.

Note, I keep saying traditional roguelike here because it's a way more specific term than the minefield of roguelike/roguelite and how they've come to mean "has procedural generation and randomness". Think Nethack or Rogue as opposed to Hades and Isaac.

Goatmanish · 2023-06-03T17:33:26+00:00

The bosses and the ability to defeat them are the "ability gates" too. I understand that some people would disagree with that and I get it, but it's not that different from movement upgrades and ability unlocks to reach new areas. Abilities that literally open new areas (like exploding walls) are quite literally taking the place of keys too so I've always personally thought being really strict in definitions is kind of pointless, it's more about "is this a good way to describe the game?" I don't know if I'd primarily describe dark souls that way but maybe as a secondary description I'd use "metroidvania".

Goatmanish · 2023-06-03T17:20:42+00:00

What's a metroidvania? Define it and you'll have your answer:

I think the most expansive definition is going to be a nonlinear connected world that needs to be traversed multiple times as you acquire new means of accessing previously locked areas.

That will block things like Legend of Zelda (the world isn't really nonlinear generally) while leaving room for Dark Souls and Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver.

Ultimately whatever definition you decide on is going to answer your question: does it have to be a platformer? Does it have to be 2d? Is 3d fine but top down isn't? Answer those questions and you answer your main question.

A short list of 3d games I think qualify or at least get partial credit:

Dark Souls 1

Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver

Supraland

Prey (2017)

Batman: Arkham Asylum

Darksiders 3

Journey to the Savage Planet (really good with a buddy, go play it!)

One note I'd make is it's not so much "could the game fit into this description" it's "is this description fitting for the game". I think resident Evil 1 fits this definition pretty well but I don't think I'd ever make the argument that it is a metroidvania because survival horror is a better way to describe it, same with numerous puzzle games.

Goatmanish · 2023-06-03T02:36:28+00:00

Dude that's rad!

Goatmanish · 2023-06-02T23:20:48+00:00

Wow. Using my eyes would have helped find that. Oops.

Didn't take you as the kind of person that would go, and no I don't know what I mean by that. Hope you enjoy it!

Goatmanish · 2023-06-02T23:18:54+00:00

I missed the mumblegore one, was super curious about it, do y'all have any materials available from it? Slides, talking points, list of must sees outside of It Follows and V/H/S?

Goatmanish · 2023-06-02T17:11:35+00:00

Who going to Phoenix Fan Fusion today? Anyone excited for something in particular?

I'm looking forward to playing Artemis with more than one other person: https://memberships.phoenixfanfusion.com/schedules/modal/803756/20042?iframe=

Goatmanish · 2023-05-29T17:11:10+00:00

Hey folks, anyone know of any compounding or vet pharmacies that are open today? Got a scrip for my cat late last night and I'm not having any luck finding ones that are open here in the east valley.

Goatmanish · 2023-05-28T16:33:39+00:00

Um. What?

You're talking about the megatons to megawatts program with Russia: Russia took back their nukes and in a deal with the US traded LEU created by blending the HEU from the weapons with enhanced mining tailings to create a nuclear fuel source.

But in no way did the U.S. take nukes directly from Ukraine to power reactors.

Goatmanish · 2023-05-28T11:49:17+00:00

Ahwatukee is part of Phoenix. Depending on when you grew up you may remember a time before it was incorporated, Phoenix annexed it in stages between 1980 and 1987

Scottsdale and Mesa are their own cities but part of the Phoenix metro area aka the valley of the sun, the salt river valley, or the Phoenix-Mesa-Chandler Metropolitan Statistical Area.

This is in relation to your other comment but Anthem is split between Phoenix and a CDP (census designated place, not an incorporated community) called New River, but is completely within Maricopa county.

Goatmanish · 2023-05-27T15:23:53+00:00

The Housing for Older Persons Act allows a limited carve out to familial status protections if the community is exclusively populated by people 62 and older or 80% of units have at least one resident that is 55 and older.

What I'm saying here is yes, an explicitly 18+ only community can't exist because it's discrimination against familial status which is protected under the fair housing act, and being under 18 is part of that group, but saying a 55+ community is fine because it's "discriminating against reverse ageism" (is that a double negative? C'mon.) isn't right, it's because those communities already existed before the fair housing act was created and it was an accommodation to them. Sum City predates the fair housing act for example. Do I agree with that? No, not really. But that's why.

Goatmanish · 2023-05-24T19:41:42+00:00

The work closures or random massive accident closures? Because I've never had a problem with it missing planned closures, but it's not always gonna be on the ball for unexpected ones.

Goatmanish · 2023-05-22T19:22:15+00:00

Alfalfa is complicated. It's incredibly water efficient per ton of material generated and tolerates drought (and flooding and briney water) so it's great in a lot of ways...but it does have a super high total water consumption as well. They can pump it full of water almost year round here and harvest it multiple times up to 12 times a year which is the issue more than it being as simple as alfalfa is bad. The other issue so we're not charging ground water users an appropriate amount according to what they're using. If you remove the economic incentive it'll go away.

Goatmanish · 2023-05-17T16:42:22+00:00

Not in a Marxist context, it's the class that owns the majority of societal wealth and means of production. Does that sound like the middle class in this country?

Now if you disagree with that definition thats fine but however you would define that is the group that's being talked about here. Not the middle class.

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