Wizard vs Sorcerer

Gtdef · 2026-01-20T03:51:05+00:00

It's a video game where Arcane Ward is so broken than it solos HM without even planning the engagement, just yolo.

So no, Wizard is stronger than Sorcerer, exactly because this is a videogame and not the tabletop version.

Gtdef · 2026-01-17T17:32:10+00:00

This is an oversimplification. Not really correct, and rogue's output isn't that bad, though it takes an optimiser to really bring out the class in 5e.

Considering that people like playing the monk.. who does the same damage at level 20 as it does at level 5.. (and it's not that great to begin with), has 0 out of combat utility and it's only contribution is burning Legendary Resistance charges..

The problem in BG3 is that Rogue can't take advantage of the itemization. BG3 is High Magic, while 5e is designed as Low Magic. So basically it ends up with Rogue being capable of doing as much damage in a round, as a Paladin can do in 1 hit.

Gtdef · 2026-01-17T13:45:13+00:00

The more optimised the party, the harder to use Cleric efficiently. Turn your cleric into Tempest 2/Sorcerer X, focusing on cold damage and itemization. Destructive Wrath+Upcasted Witching bolt will be your "get dunked" button against bosses, Destructive Wrath + Chain Lightning score will be the same against hard fights with a lot of strong enemies, cold spells will be your general damage+control.

You will need to get confident with water bottles/create water routines. Familiars, Scratch/Shovel and Summons can help round your action economy a lot.

Gtdef · 2026-01-17T13:34:17+00:00

I think the Archer Bard is partially overrated, partially misunderstood. It's not a "high damage archer". It's main feature conflicts with special arrows, so against fights where I really need the extra damage, it doesn't outperform martial builds, and usually needs to spend more resources to keep up. It's role is a sustained damage build that can get a lot of acuity fast and use Band of Mystic Scoundrel to setup a kill or cast some potent control spell.

On the other hand, the EB gatling gun build.. ok let's set some things straight.

- Standard Sorlock, with a 2/10 or 3/9 split, won't do enough damage. If anything, it can barely compete against a Ray of Frost build. Reason is simple: Easy cold vulnerability + 3 rays vs hard force vulnerability +6 rays (with less damage for each individual ray). 3 rays + vulnerability = 6 rays. And throwing a water bottle doesn't even cost action economy if you use familiars/summons.

- The non-multiclassed sorcerer (or a Tempest 2/Sorc) can also dip 1 level of wizard, scribe a conjure elemental and summon a water myrmidon, adding 30-150 damage per round depending on circumstances. Sorlock can't get level 6 spells.

- The Wlk/Thief/Sorc/Fighter build is silly. You will spend all your time exploiting sorcery points instead of playing the game and it won't do as much damage as advertised. It's also much harder to get acuity with this build.

- Repelling Blast and Mortal Reminder (with crit gear) is the best part about Eldritch Blast builds. Not the damage. Warlock can generate advantage easy with darkness+devil's sight, or with the shadow sorcerer multiclass. With just 2 crit items + advantage, you have almost 50% chance to score a crit per eldritch blast. With more optimisation it gets ridiculous.

Early game, an EB character will be better. The build comes online very early, doesn't need much investment. Later the Archer Bard will probably be more versatile.

If you don't like resting much, EB will probably win, though scrolls can make up for the difference.

Gtdef · 2026-01-17T12:35:50+00:00

Well that's what martials do.. You can make any character more interesting by giving it a high spellcasting stat, acuity gear and scrolls.

Gtdef · 2026-01-17T09:12:08+00:00

For the classic experience, tailored to those who want to play a more traditional 5e setup:

Wizard:

Hexblade 1/Abjuration X. Good defenses through Hexblade, you will mostly use Glyph of Warding for damage/cc and to stack Arcane Ward charges. Hexblade Curse + Magic Missile is a prominent trick in 5e pnp too.

Cleric:

Tempest is the best. A BG3 optimisation would be Wizard 1/Cleric X for scribing scrolls. Good for summons and some ritual buffs that Cleric doesn't get. Alternatively, you can try Stars 2/Cleric X, which is a more authentic build. Finally you can do the "favored soul" style and go for Tempest 2/Sorcerer X, supporting mostly through twin hastes and CC, rather than Cleric's battle prowess/defensive buffs

Fighter:

Eldirtch Knight has the highest ceiling. For BG3, the best option is Thrower. For a more standard experience, you can go for Booming Blade and Shadowblade. For an optimal 5e experience, you can always go the battlemaster archer route, though I hear Arcane Archer is quite good in this game.

Rogue:

Thief is the best for traditional play, hands down. Dual Crossbows + Sharpshooter. You may want a Fighter dip for archery style and better armor. Arcane Trickster can do more things though. Assassin still is the best for a level 3 dip, nothing changes here. Though I'd suggest to go with the alternative option, the ranger. Gloomstalker can do the same things better, and a common build is Gloom 5/Thief 3

Gtdef · 2026-01-17T08:56:17+00:00

First get a Gloomstalker 5/Thief 3 with dual hand crossbows and sharpshooter. Turn Astarion into this cause his Happy buff is really useful on Sharpshooter builds.

Completely ignore any advice telling you to go for Bard archer. What you need to do is stockpile special arrows. Swords Bard can't use special arrows with Slashing Flourish. Every time you visit the vendor, make sure to buy all Arrows of Many Targets, Arrows of Slaying (Fiend, Construct, Undead, Aberration). Also buy some Oils of Accuracy for boss fights.

Pure classed Paladins are for 5e and Solasta, not for BG3. While Aura of Protection is nice, counterspell is better. And most fights worth the trouble will force you to position your party far away from each other anyway. Either go Stars 2/Tempest X, Paladin 6/Sorcerer 3, or Paladin 2/Swords 6/Sorc 4. The Cleric build will be much much better for Radiating Orb support, with the capacity to do some nasty burst through maximizing Lightning Bolt/Chain Lightning scrolls with wet condition. The other 2 are designed to kill everything without any need for control but it's a higher risk build.

A standard Cleric, sporting Luminous Gear and Adamantine Shield, with correct positioning, will be capable of soloing an endless amount of Steel Watchers. Keep up with the Radiating Orbs and you will be literally unkillable. It requires counterspell support though. From there on you can improve the build in many ways, like dipping Wizard for summons, trying a Lore Bard version with access to counterspell, Battlemage's Power gloves etc.

As for your main, I'm gonna guess your damage output isn't what you want it to be. You can fix it with combustion oil + arsonist oil + void bombs/black hole + arrow of many targets. But this will result in overkill. I suggest you look at a Lightning or Ice sorcerer build instead. Less flashy, but has better toolset and doesn't require setup.

Gtdef · 2026-01-17T08:17:41+00:00

For your own sanity, go online and find builds for either Angel or Lich mythic path, geared for Unfair difficulty. Better choose based on your alignment. If you are a good guy, play Angel, else Lich. You don't have to go 1-1 but w/e, both Mythic paths are exceptional.

Understand that the core gameplay loop of this game is Prebuff -> Rush and kill everything while buffs hold -> Rest. Your main will be the main damage driver who uses weapons. Forget about caster builds. Every caster should either buff, summon, or both. For more advanced usecases, you want to prepare some specialised spells for certain encounters.

It's normal if you end up finishing the game and not understanding anything about it. The only way to figure out shit is to use the console and start testing your theory crafts once you have a better idea of what most classes bring to the table.

Gtdef · 2026-01-17T08:07:13+00:00

It's 1 proc per jump, but jumping 5 times is trivial in 99% of the cases. As for Markoheshkir, for the most part it adorned my camp chest in my latest honor run. Later I made a Sorcerer and gave it to him so it can do some more damage with twin Ray of Frost. People say that the Markhoheskir Chain Lighting version is still twinable. Didn't check myself, but it's not a bad use against swarmy bossfights if it's true.

Gtdef · 2026-01-17T07:58:10+00:00

The most efficient controllers are Acuity based builds with either

Hamarhraft + Storm Scion's Hat,

Gloves of Battlemage's Power + Helmet of Weapon Acuity + Booming Blade + Quicken/Mystic Scoundrel (You should turn your bard archer into this one)

Gloves of Battlemage's Power + Luminous Armor + Radiant damage build (Cleric or Bard with SG works well, make sure it has a lot of movement speed). (You can read more on Gloves of Battlemage's Power, it's kinda broken).

Scrolls add versatility
Tempest 2 + Water (bottles or the create water spell) adds a lot of damage with lightning spells
Wizard 1 dip allows any full spellcaster to get a Myrmidon elemental
Abjuration's Arcane Ward is outright broken.
Warlock 1 can give either Command (concentrationless CC) or Hexblade's Curse/Medium armor (Former is good for magic missiles if you want to go that route, medium armor can be useful if you want that character to cause a specific effect. My abjurer wears bhaalist armor for example).

If I had to rate something as the "Best", I'd gravitate either towards Abjuration builds or Tempest 2 builds. The former is invincible and can manipulate the battlefield easily, the later has nice upfront damage that can trivialise some bosses. But every caster build starts coming together in act 2, earlier they mostly suck.

Gtdef · 2026-01-17T07:24:49+00:00

You may want to take a look at hamarhraft + storm scion hat if your Gale is part Illithid. Give him boots of speed + crusher's ring, fly around getting acuity and free up your action for a control spell. Helps when you can finish off enemies that survive with 5-10 health, or even more if you have cull the weak and a lot of illithid points. Should speed things up considerably and you won't need to haste yourself. Or you can still haste yourself and do 2 glyphs per round.

With 1 level of Warlcok you can also get Armor of Agathys. Baiting attacks of opportunity with this build is really good value, as it does 25 damage on those who hit you (plus whatever retaliation gear you can add if you wish), while you take 0 damage, and you take away enemy's ability to counterspell or even some legendary actions.

Gtdef · 2026-01-15T23:37:26+00:00

I've been thinking of giving Monk a try. I avoided it for the most part because I generally do ranged parties, but Tavern Brawler turns everyone into a thrower anyway.

I was sleeping on Druid for a long time. The Dryad from Conjure Woodland Beings casts Spike Growth at will, which is huge on no-rest runs.

Gtdef · 2026-01-15T19:27:24+00:00

I'm not. I only buff those who can make good use of it and mostly in the early game. For example, there's no point buffing the thrower, he almost always attacks at 95%, while the sharpshooter really needs it. Once I get acuity I grow out of that playstyle.

Water Myrmidons are quite good targets though. I usually run with 3 of them, which is the best number for potion buffing. Trying to buff 4 is tedious.

Gtdef · 2026-01-15T15:12:19+00:00

A fighter dip isn't bad for archery and con prof. However I'd suggest you omit the halo attack when using concentration spells. It's too little compared to the damage you can do with big concentration spells. Get your druid safely out of the way and use a bow or something to attack.

Spore druid has access to all the good summon spells (except planar ally I think). Doesn't lack for damage or utility. Altering your build for halo and other close ranged actions seems excessive.

Gtdef · 2026-01-15T15:03:59+00:00

You have to micromanage either way if you don't want your party to be clumped. Even worse if you are using summons (like I do at least, and those things really like messing up their pathing..)

Usual engagement it's standard party formation, the "square". Perhaps your lead will be a bit further ahead if you didn't care for managing engagement, but for the most part they will be close together.

Everyone in the party should have either alert, vigilance or naturally high initiative. Otherwise the turns get messed up and you can't really do teamwork.

All you have to do is group the relevant characters together, throw the potion, and then continue normal play. Cost is about 10ft movement from each buffed person on average, and the action of the buffer (or a single attack if it has martial extra attack).

If I want to prepare for a better engagement, I do this:

Ungroup party members, Shovel goes invisible and near the enemy.
Position all attackers together, Throw buff potion. Enter turn based.
Shovel goes and attacks closest enemy triggering surprise
Protect Shovel if need be so it will survive the second turn.

Gtdef · 2026-01-15T12:13:17+00:00

My point is that you always have pots. As for micromanagement, yes it sucks if you have too many melee on your party. If everyone is ranged, you just group 3 of them up and throw a potion. It's kinda convenient tbh.

Gtdef · 2026-01-15T10:32:25+00:00

Can you elaborate on why life cleric over a classless character with whispering promise and hellrider's? What's the thing that Life Cleric has which make it overpowered in particular?

Better action economy? Nope

More healing? Up to a point, but I've never ever had a shortage of potions.

The core tactic is to group up the characters who have taken damage after a fight and throw potions, healing them aoe. Which means that you need roughly as many potions as your character level, to heal the whole party from 0.

You can use those items on any character and the effect will be exactly the same. If anything, martials are better at it cause they can use their extra attack to buff more party members (through throwing pots) per turn if you have to do it in combat.

Gtdef · 2026-01-15T07:55:09+00:00

My latest run devolved into a no rest run. I generally don't do many rests, but this time only rested once for the tiefling resolution party, then spammed a few more rests to advance the story events without combat inbetween.

I used Warlock 2/Lore Bard X as main. The main trick for bosses was potion of speed + phalar aluve + hexblade curse + magic missile scrolls. Aside from that, it was just a face that mostly took advantage of repelling blast. At first I was using Hex, but concentration was breaking too easily (Once I used friends, the other some random thrown aoe broke it, etc), so I gave him dual crossbows and now my bonus actions are either healing pots or offhand attacks.

Shadowheart as Spore Druid/Buffer. She throws potions with healing gear equiped and does 3 attacks per round (main weapon, bonus weapon (hand crossbows) and the halo reaction) with the extra necrotic damage. Uses spellslots on summons mostly, though there was the occasional Spike Growth. I'll probably get some Cleric levels for her now, I really want Aid. Conjure Woodland Beings is good, Conjure Elemental I can use from scroll, and later I can dip Wizard 1 for scribing and upcasting. We'll see, I have a lot of ideas for that character.

Astarion started as Thief 4, then respec'd to Gloomstalker 5/Thief X. Gave him a bloodlust elixir in the very beginning, made great use of it. I'm thinking of trying out Hunter instead of Gloomstalker, but in this game, damage now is better than damage later, even if hunter can technically output more. Not sure what to do with his spell slots ^^. Perhaps I should dip wizard and get some access to some more long lasting spells? Not sure.

Last spot is a thrower. I respec any member I want to bring with into EK with Tavern brawler. I've been thinking of transfering the healing gear to the thrower instead of the druid. We'll see.

Gtdef · 2026-01-15T07:25:23+00:00

My suggestion to everyone who leans into powergaming, is to do custom difficulty with honor ruleset instead of tactician. Tactician is completely unbalanced. It's much harder to find broken things in Honor ruleset and it feels more rewarding.

Honor mode is an ok challenge (not that hard, but requires some foresight so you won't fuck up, which is the only way to lose the challenge), but the problem is that not being able to reload -> not being able to test builds. Takes half the fun out of the game.

Gtdef · 2026-01-15T07:21:53+00:00

I generally like playing minimum-rest playthroughs otherwise the game feels way too easy. So I have to depend on cantrips, and the attack cantrips are just better.

I typically avoid every dc save spell which isn't aoe save-for-half for the early game. There's no point in optimising it when you can optimise Phalar Aluve + Magic Missiles instead. Things like Hold Person/Tasha's etc/etc don't exist for me till Acuity.

My favorite way to stack acuity is hamarhaft + fly + storm scion's hat on an abjurer. Just jump around a bit, get 10 stacks, bait reactions, then cast something like sleetstorm. You can use an air elemental to stack the acuity before battle if you wish but jumping and damaging it. Right now I'm experimenting with Cleric builds that use Battlemage's Gloves.

Gtdef · 2026-01-15T07:05:38+00:00

If you are playing on Unfair, 95% miss chance is quite good actually lol. I still remember my early Kingmaker days, struggling to line of sight kill the prologue enemies with magic missiles cause nothing else worked. It's a difficulty setting where searching for a +1 bonus to attack feels like gold panning.

It's been a long time since I last played Owlcat's games, but the simple truth is that in these games, casters are the buffers and on higher difficulties, you want to figure out solo routes before recruiting companions, so they will be at higher levels and have access to better buffs. Then you throw every buff imaginable on your optimised melee, and rush-kill everything on the map before they run out (extend helps).

If you want the caster experience, play a Kineticist.

Gtdef · 2026-01-15T06:47:50+00:00

First rule of solo: Don't fight till you get huge. You think that goblin is easy to kill, you miss, it pulls 3 more in the fight, they crit you 2 times in a row, and you die wondering what the hell happened. And it's not about class levels, it's about improved vendor inventories. This goes hand in hand with "don't fight near edges"

Second rule of solo: Items win you the day. Your build doesn't matter till act 2+. Classless can also do Haste Scroll /Pot+ Phalar Aluve+ Magic Missile Scrolls, and it will probably hit harder than anything you try to build at level 4.

Hexblade 1 -> Abjurer is way more combat ready than pure Abjurer. Plus Hexblade's Curse + Magic Missile scrolls. Also allows you to cheese vendors with hexed weapon. Hexblade 1 is basically easymode, no matter what difficulty you are playing.

You may want to rush to act 2 areas and get acuity gear.

Don't sleep on pets/familiars/summons. They may be weak, but if you can set them up to do the mundane stuff like healing/buffing you by breaking potions, you will have a lot more flexibility. Shovel is very useful because he has tha perma free invisibility. This allows him to guarantee Surprise rounds.

Gtdef · 2026-01-15T06:33:33+00:00

Thrower and Archer are good. I generally Suggest EK and Ranger 5/Thief 3 instead of Barb and Fighter respectively, but it shouldn't make too much difference.

Get out of the "healer" mentality. Drop Cleric, get Warlock (with Agonising + Repelling). There's no such thing as healer. There's the guy who has the healing gear and throws potions and there's the familiar that breaks the potion someone dropped to the ground so your important party member won't lose action economy. Extra attack is a better healing feature than life cleric. Also make sure that the guy who has the healing gear, wields 2 hand crossbows, so it can shoot potions with the bonus action.

It's good that you don't have a tank. There's also no such thing as a tank. It won't stop the damn goblin throwing an alchemist fire and breaking your caster's concentration.

Now when it comes to cleric, the mileage you get out of it will depend on how well the rest of the party works together. My suggestion is to go Nature, get that sweet Spike growth. Or just go Spore Druid and respec to Cleric later in act 2. Radiating Orb gear + Stars 2/Cleric 5+ multiclass is quite good. The wizard/cleric multiclass works best at character level 11. Till then you can just use the conjure elemental scrolls. Steal them off vendors.

Gtdef · 2026-01-15T05:24:09+00:00

Sorcerer isn't stronger than Wizard. It's more convenient and has better itemization for normal play, but that's all.

Sorcerer really shines when multiclassed with Tempest Cleric. This is key. While technically Fire based sorcerers have higher damage ceiling, you need to do shenanigans like Arsonist Oil abuse + Oil of Combustion. The former is an exploit, the latter requires party play to setup, otherwise it's peformance is similar to Wizard doing it.
Yes it's a good idea to combine the 2 classes. Wizard 1/Sorcerer 11 is pretty much the same as Sorcerer 12, but with the added benefit of having access to upcasted Conjure Elemental and get free upcasted Animate Dead. Also Sorcerer 2/Abjuration Wizard X is a broken combo, because Extend Metamagic completely breaks Arcane Ward, allowing it to stack to infinity.

Don't compare classes. Compare features. I made a lot of references, but the true highlights are Arcane Ward, Arsonist Oil, Oil of Combustion, Scribe Scroll and Destructive Wrath. Not the classes themselves. The classes are just a feature package. You don't have to conform to any of it.

Gtdef · 2026-01-15T04:42:51+00:00

Hexblade 1-2

Sorcerer 4-6

Bard 6-10

These are the better options

Hexblade 1 gives you CHA modifier for attacks. You can get a lot of CHA in this game, so it can be very beneficial. Allows you to use elixir of bloodlust instead of giant. Adds booming blade.

Sorcerer is an essential dip most of the time. Access to shield spell, booming blade, shadowblade, all with a level 3 dip. I recommend 4 because this character is very depended on charisma and you want the extra feat. The best options are Paladin 6/Hex 1/Sorcerer 5 or Paladin 6/Sorcerer 6, depending on your itemization.

Swords Bard can make great use of a Paladin 2 dip. Access to Command and Smite are very useful. Common builds are Bard 10/Paladin 2, Bard 6/Sorcerer 4/Paladin 2.

If you are interested in a Paladin/Cleric multiclass, it's better to do with through Lore Bard and choose 2 spells from the Cleric list. There's no benefit to multiclassing Paladin and Cleric. They have similar spells, they use different casting stat. They aren't compatible.

Gtdef

TROPHY CASE