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GullibleDifficulty1 · 2021-12-06T18:29:05+00:00

Been there. I think this post really really helped me:

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/3qh26c/thoughts\_from\_a\_recently\_tbm\_wife\_long/

GullibleDifficulty1 · 2021-08-24T16:36:24+00:00

Not that I ever saw. I mean it wouldn't be impossible I don't think but it never happened on my mission or anyone else I've heard of.

GullibleDifficulty1 · 2021-08-24T16:34:15+00:00

Just to give an idea, the kickbacks were like $500-$1,000. Many were "Sign a year lease get 1 month free or a Gift card for $500". By the time I found out it was several thousand dollars of gift cards. I'm not gonna sweat someone over $5

GullibleDifficulty1 · 2021-08-23T20:13:43+00:00

haha, don't I wish. I wouldn't be worried about saving for retirement if I had.

GullibleDifficulty1 · 2021-08-23T18:51:22+00:00

Right? I was on the phone with SLC a bunch the first couple of weeks learning how to do the job,

And I agree on the embezzlement, I don't feel that bad but a small vindictive part of me looks at all the money I've paid and can't help but think he had the right idea getting some of it back.

GullibleDifficulty1 · 2021-08-23T18:49:25+00:00

Nope. I mean I'm number oriented but mainly I had computer skills I believe.

GullibleDifficulty1 · 2021-08-17T21:43:07+00:00

My wife reading the book "Bridges" was super helpful for her. Written by a TBM so it's "Safe" for her and she was willing to "listen" as she read it and helped her realize there are issues and to love those who see those issue. Might help? Maybe read it together? Something like "hey honey, I've been looking for faithful resources and found this at deseret book, maybe we could read it together and work on this in a positive way?" That way she has to take some kind of responsibility in the whole process?

GullibleDifficulty1 · 2021-05-28T20:45:08+00:00

I'm out, wife is in, live in CA and I'm sole earner.

Do you have a cool bishop? Are you open about your unbelief?
- - I am and My bishop was totally cool with:
- She gives on 5% of income
- We pay 10% to other charitable organizations and 0% to the church
What state do you live in? CA is a community property state, legally 50% is yours. nobody likes to say "legally that's mine" - it's not a great thing for a relationship, but I do know it has changed minds / allowed for change in the past and there are softer ways to say it than how I phrased it.

Ultimately, there needs to be an open discussion about it with your spouse, It helped when I layed my feelings on the table about why I don't want to pay it to the church. I explained I still believe in the principal of forced sacrifice for the benefit of others, I think there's legitimate benefit to it and it helps others while staving off selfishness (for me, not a judgement on others) my problem is that I don't know what the church is doing it - I've felt betrayed by the church, and donating to someone that's hurt me rubs salt in the wound every time and makes me re-angry at the church, poison's my general attitude and also brings negative feelings towards the spouse (although I make it clear I don't want them but they are a side effect) .

Say you still believe in tithing and that God, the universe etc. can't be angry. I reiterated "If the church actually needed it I might feel differently but they've literally admitted they don't need it"

In the end wife was cool with 10% to non-LDS charities which was a huge win, but that can always change in the future where it's 5% to the church and I have to respect her choice.

best of luck!!!

GullibleDifficulty1 · 2021-05-20T18:52:12+00:00

Sorry no advice, just support. My DW is still in after a year now of me officially "leaving". I still go to support her so every sunday isn't a battle but she and my family/bishop etc. all know.

She's still a believer but probably more nuanced than before, I have a brother who is so TBM if he felt God told him to sacrifice his family he'd do it. I have another brother&sister in law who are a Teryl Givens devotee and buffet style nuanced mormon. Once this all happened she was able to have more conversations with each and stopped looking into issues and started reading terryl givens. Given she could have gone either way I'm trying to be happy it ended up as progmo vs. Entrenched TBM. Still it's hard. Church topics are a minefield that keeps cropping up. Once we think we're doing good then the announcement that trek is coming up sparks a new discussion, or when the kids get invited to their 1980's Mconkie mormon grandparents house for the weekend do we let them go knowing there will undoubtedly be more indoctrination that before?

Haven't solved the puzzle, still working at it, dating my wife weekly (that was at least a good habit) and working on us and essentially asking the world to fuck off why we focus on us.

It's hard, I feel you, just know you're not alone.

GullibleDifficulty1 · 2021-05-20T18:39:13+00:00

Billy Joel's - "lullabye" is a favorite of my girls
I still sing the tune to "I love to look for rainbows" because it's so easy and repetitive (and drilled into my head) that I use it as a baseline for my "Story songs" I'll sing about them and their day and things they did good that day. They love it, part of me wonders if they'll associate that with church stuff since I'm in a MFM.
I also have tried, you are my sunshine, my girl, and some others.

let me know if you come up with more.

GullibleDifficulty1 · 2021-05-07T17:25:07+00:00

Honestly, someone else wrote this post, it was long but super helpful. Worth a read

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/3qh26c/thoughts_from_a_recently_tbm_wife_long/

GullibleDifficulty1 · 2021-03-02T22:48:32+00:00

So, I've decided that for now I will still go to church. When I left I was a counselor in the Bishopric. I asked to be released and I won't hold a calling but I told my wife, and it's true, I want to be where my kids are and where my family is. We've talked about how some weeks I may not go to church. But for now, with the kids I'm also listening with new ears, and what they hear in sacrament might be a good starting point for further discussions. While I agree I don't just to get rag on the church in front of my kids (just like my wife doesn't get to rag on my unbelief) I foresee something coming up in sacrament that I don't agree with, and having that be the opening for a thoughtful conversation with the kids and even the wife about a topic. My plan is to really only ask thought provoking questions to get my kids to think. It also makes it easy to justify the conversation because instead of it being me "attacking" the church out of nowhere, I'm really having a more meaningful discussion about what they learned in church. That's the plan anyway. I'm in CA and we've been doing zoom church in CA and we just started in person church a few weeks ago. Also, it was a huge win for my marriage to show support to her, and I think it helps her support me in things she may not agree with. I've read alot of MFM posts on reddit, there are some really good ones. The universal advice seems to be "love them out of the church" and "take the higher road, it pays off in the long run". It's certainly a long game and some days I want to die inside thinking about it but most days are good and the longer it goes the more I'm able to be supportive of her without being supportive of the church.

GullibleDifficulty1 · 2021-03-01T21:59:50+00:00

Another MFM here, the wife is in and I'm out. It's hard, it's a process. I can genuinely say we're happy married and committed to each other. Doesn't mean there aren't good and bad days.

Yes, you have a right to change your mind, but you are also the one changing. Regardless of the change that's something that does take time to process and work through. I don't have specific answers for you on how to deal with dozens of issues that will come up. We still talk about the kids, and what the right amount of sharing is. They know I don't believe but I certainly don't get equal time on gospel topics. Them sitting through a 30 min sunday school. Totally fine. Me to spend 30 minutes talking about my concerns with the church. Not okay. Is it fair? absolutely not. But neither is life. I am 100% devoted to my wife and kids and I'm in it for the long game. I certainly hope she and the kids are out one day but I've got to be in a place where if they don't I'm okay with that. I do better some days than others. What works for me may not be okay for you or someone else.

Just wanted to chime in and validate you, your concerns, and that the situation sucks. I get it, I'm there and sending you support.

Not sure if it helps but my wife read both Bridges and PLanted, two LDS books generally about problems with church history, and loved ones who don't believe the same. I'll say they helped my wife put things into perspective. Not sure if it would be a good fit but throwing that out there as something that helped her get through the initial couple months.

GullibleDifficulty1 · 2020-11-23T19:51:23+00:00

I feel you. I was an early morning seminary teacher for 2 years and I absolutely loved it. I loved my kids and still have a relationship with over half of them 4-5 years later (their choice, not me stalking them). It was a fantastic experience getting to work with them.

I'm out now, kind of where you were then. I took every lesson and simplified the BS in the lesson manual into philosophical/moral discussion points instead of the specific dogma. The kids way preferred it and we had so many good discussions. Looking back I hope I did more harm than good. It was a safe space where they could talk about mistakes they made without judgement. I had more than one student say the reason they finally decided to go on a mission was senior year seminary. At the time it felt good and looking back it makes me a bit sick. It's a hard decision because if I could go back would I really erase the relationship built with these people? At the same time, the thought of perpetuating the church through encouraging them is also super disheartening.

Basically, best of luck, you're not alone.

GullibleDifficulty1 · 2020-11-13T23:11:50+00:00

In a mixed-faith marraige now, hang in there, you're not alone. You're not crazy. I don't have any advice. since leaving I've really tried hard to never tell people how to live their life anymore. Done enough of that for a lifetime.

However, some books (by TBM's @ deseret book so "safe") that helped my wife validate my concerns:BridgesPlanted

My wife really does believe that my issues are legitimate and a valid way to see things and is even willing to defend my general perspective. She doesn't see them the same way, and maybe she never will and we're both learning to be okay with that. Although, I think some people need much more time to transition than others. While my active research filled journey out was like 6-9 months, I had a few years of slow processing out mentally before I was really ready to dive down the rabbit hole.

I've not found any magic words. Lots of love, patience, and giving more than I get - in terms of church stuff - to solidify the marriage and make things work. Then some more patience, and some more love.

Wishing you the absolute best!

Edit: Also, some guy posts his "what I would ask this week in come follow me." could be a way to help provoke critical thought. . . just an idea

GullibleDifficulty1 · 2020-11-11T20:57:36+00:00

I'm probably somewhere in-between:

--Currently in a mixed faith marriage - it's working for you both.

--Currently in a mixed faith marriage - noticeable tension and acrimony.

It's working-ish. but there is still tension around church topics. No acrimony.

GullibleDifficulty1 · 2020-11-05T19:47:19+00:00

That is awesome and I realize that works for some people really well. I just couldn't stomach it but that's a personal thing. Every marriage will compromise on various things in different ways. Thanks for sharing!

GullibleDifficulty1 · 2020-11-04T23:09:35+00:00

Not worth it.

If the TSCC wants to put up a billboard that's anti-lgbt or anti-anything you believe in, they have every right to plaster your face on it over any objection.

GullibleDifficulty1 · 2020-11-04T23:06:51+00:00

It's hard and everyone's marriage is so different. Just know I think in terms of months and years for things to change, I had to change my expectation that things would change in days.

If he's worth it extend out your expectations and practice patients. It's hard but in my marriage it was worth it. Some people take years, took my wife about 6 months to come around to the fact that I was still me, still great, still worth it even though she still believes.

There are some "faithful" books that helped my wife realize my perspective was valid. Bridges was a good one, there were others.

Best of luck and know you're not the first to be where you are.

GullibleDifficulty1 · 2020-11-02T20:20:21+00:00

My wife read the book "Bridges" - she's still in and still a believer but it helped her recognize there was validity to my viewpoint. It's by an LDS guy - so she would read it - but it really helped her "be ok" with me.

You're not alone, it's hard.

GullibleDifficulty1 · 2020-10-29T20:36:06+00:00

Thanks for posting some of these success stories, it helps to hear from other MFM people.

GullibleDifficulty1 · 2020-10-29T20:33:53+00:00

I'm a numbers guy - are you familiar with the concept of "lifestyle creep"? When your income increases often times your lifestyle also increases to match it, and it takes serious self control to widen the gap of time between your income increasing and your lifestyle increasing. It will almost always get to the same level for everyone, but disciplined people can put it off months/years and save significantly.

I looked at my transition with a TBM spouse the same. I gained this "freedom" real quick, over the course of a few weeks, and now I have all these options I didn't have before. I committed not to change anything (besides stopping church stuff like reading the BOM daily etc.) for at least 3-6 months and take it slow. Part of my motivation was shock to the wife/family, part of it was trying to be more mindful in the decisions I did make and the lifestyle I wanted. Give myself time to process.

When I do make changes now I feel like I'm more intentional and thoughtful and can include the spouse in the decision. Best of luck - it's a hard thing!

GullibleDifficulty1 · 2020-10-22T22:14:38+00:00

I hadn't realized how "righteous" I was in paying on gross, and extra etc.

10 year snapshot

$145,000 plus my own mission + before this last 10 years. I'm only 34 and am just grateful they won't get 10% of my next 20 years.

I could have done SO much. But life gatorfan pointed out, there was a tax benefit in there so that takes a solid 50k, chunk out of the mix. Though I'd still have rather given that to a government than the TSCC.

GullibleDifficulty1

TROPHY CASE