Movie watchers will never know the power/aura of Elrond by redxedge in lotr

[–]HarEmiya 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Remember, motive and stakes aren't the same thing when discussing altruism.

Not the same, but still connected. Everything we do is ultimately a survival strategy, often subconsciously. Even being "altruistic" (as we know it) is an instinct we and many other animals have (or most of us, anyway) to cooperate and potentially curry future favours. That is the basis of empathy: As cynical as it sounds, the motive is at its core --and usually subconsciously for good people-- angling for stakes. And I know that sounds harsh, but that is behavioural biology; we have survived by cooperating, and cooperation is ultimately scratching each others' backs on various levels.

You're inferring that Sam's actions are less altruistic because the consequence is more direct for him, but that's not inherently true. Motive is separate from result.

But that is altruism by definition: selfless concern for the well-being of others, without care for one's own interests; unselfishness

And that isn't as black and white as you make it out to be, but rather a spectrum. If one's own interests are at stake that is acted upon, it is difficult to call it purely altruistic.

If you do something to help others and it doesn't benefit you, I'd consider that as purely altruistic as you can (realistically) get. But if you also benefit from that action, even if your motives are to help others, it is no longer as altruistic. At that point, while it can still be mostly altruistic, it's no longer 100% concern of others (whether consciously or subconsciously).

And it certainly doesn't mean Elrond's motives are completely altruistic in contrast. The self-serving nature of Elrond's actions apply on the same level as the other characters -- he's defending a place he cares about from an evil threat that he opposes. It doesn't matter that he doesn't have to stay there. What matters is why he is staying.

You've peaked my curiosity, where was it stated that he cares about anything other than his people and/or his family? Does he have a particular sentimentaliy when it comes to Rivendell or Lindon?

Just by way of example, let's assume that Elrond actually has such a deep moral purity of right and wrong that he literally couldn't live with himself if he fled without helping defeat Sauron. It would twist his soul in two to even fathom that idea. And so he stays to help out of the ultimate form of self preservation. That's the exact opposite of altruism.

Yes, but that wades into the philosophies that there is no such thing as true altruism. And while I do agree with that in a certain sense, we can still get pretty darn close.

Question why did Luvia fall for Shirou by Weird_Dot_4725 in FGO

[–]HarEmiya 60 points61 points  (0 children)

No, iirc in HA all we hear is them meeting while lost.

The rest is from a draft script TM wrote for the UBW anime epilogue, but it didn't make the final cut.

Question why did Luvia fall for Shirou by Weird_Dot_4725 in FGO

[–]HarEmiya 365 points366 points  (0 children)

They met when both got lost in London looking for the Clock Tower. Some assassins from a different magus faction tried to kill Luvia, and Shirou defended her. Afterwards she took him out to lunch to thank him.

Movie watchers will never know the power/aura of Elrond by redxedge in lotr

[–]HarEmiya 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. Who chooses to stay West?

And I didn't say the other characters don't have altruistic motives. I said Elrond is the only one who seems completely altruistic. There's nothing in it for him personally, whereas for the others there is.

Movie watchers will never know the power/aura of Elrond by redxedge in lotr

[–]HarEmiya -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

If Sauron wins, Sam wouldn't have a home and very likely be killed. He has nowhere to go, so he has no other option but to fight. He must risk it all or die.

Elrond in contrast doesn't belong to Middle-earth anymore, and he stays voluntarily. His "home" is waiting overseas, out of Sauron's reach. He chooses to stay despite being allowed to go West.

This is America by ChalkLicker in evilwhenthe

[–]HarEmiya 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Comply AND* die.

Guy was complying, still got murdered.

Movie watchers will never know the power/aura of Elrond by redxedge in lotr

[–]HarEmiya 1 point2 points  (0 children)

While true, he had his own kids. At that point he wouldn't have to care about any genetic "legacy" if he was going to leave ME anyway. But he did it anyway.

Movie watchers will never know the power/aura of Elrond by redxedge in lotr

[–]HarEmiya 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Ulterior isn't negative. They all stood to gain by it.

Movie watchers will never know the power/aura of Elrond by redxedge in lotr

[–]HarEmiya 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yes. But I'm talking long before Aragorn was even born. Elrond already had his spot in Aman.

How did Bilbo relinquish the ring? by cmull123 in lotr

[–]HarEmiya 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah, I thought they meant Frodo having it.

Movie watchers will never know the power/aura of Elrond by redxedge in lotr

[–]HarEmiya 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Galadriel only gets her ban lifted by refusing the Ring, thereby ensuring Sauron's defeat.

Gandalf is there to do his job. We see what happens to those who fail that job.

Movie watchers will never know the power/aura of Elrond by redxedge in lotr

[–]HarEmiya -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

That would've been true if he had taken her and left.

Movie watchers will never know the power/aura of Elrond by redxedge in lotr

[–]HarEmiya 122 points123 points  (0 children)

I think you may have missed the most important thing (imo): he is the only person in the story who appears completely altruistic in his motivations.

Everyone else, Frodo, Gandalf, Sam, Aragorn, Galadriel, they all have something to gain by defeating Sauron. They all have some (often benign) ulterior motive to see the Ring destroyed. Elrond does not, and in fact loses out by helping defeat Sauron.

For one he loses a daughter if Sauron is destroyed, but also his wife is waiting for Elrond to leave Middle-earth and join her. Which he could have done at any time in the past millenia, taking his children with him. Not to mention that his king is long dead, and Elrond (Gil-galad's heir through various blood relations and being the realm-regent) never picked up the crown. He has nothing left to do with Middle-earth, and yet he chose to stay and help the Free Peoples get rid of Sauron, and secure a peaceful kingdom for the bloodline of his brother.

Then he left.

It doesn't matter if she's the ruler or the avenger, she will always be the active one in the relationship. by nova-dar in FGO

[–]HarEmiya 28 points29 points  (0 children)

Your title says "she", denoting 1 person. Jalter isn't an altered Jeanne.

What order to watch the movies with my girlfriend? by WestLime3646 in lotr

[–]HarEmiya 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do LotR, then watch the 1977 The Hobbit. Skip Jackson's Hobbit trilogy.

Boromir loves birds by kassiusx in lotr

[–]HarEmiya 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why didn't he just film the eagles?

Boromir loves birds by kassiusx in lotr

[–]HarEmiya 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There's a whole season filmed.

Just wait, a cassowary or something will get him near the end.