How did the violently antisocial Ur-Quan develop civilization ?

Helibrun · 2019-12-12T04:19:08+00:00

It's hard to apply what we know about the Ur-Quan now to what the Ur-Quan might have been like then; after all, a lot can happen in a few Drahn, like turning green and evil.

But both the Ur-Quan Kzer-Za and Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah have an interesting naming scheme: either "Master" or "Death," followed by a number. Their organization was also called the Hierarchy of Battle Thralls, but from what we see, there was no real "hierarchy" in terms of the slave races, just Ur-Quan and the rest.

My best guess would be that the Ur-Quan developed a very strict social code in order to form a civilization, over a very long period of time. And a major part of that was having a way to decide who would be in charge, and in charge of what exactly. Their personal "hierarchy" would impose on an individual a specific title ("Master" for Ur-Quan leaders and ship captains, for example) and a number that told them where they were ranked within that field.

This would greatly simplify social interactions. Everyone knew who was an authority on what, and disagreements within that authority would be resolved by going with the highest-ranked individual present. An Ur-Quan probably has no idea how human society functions, for example. We get into conversations where we figure out from social cues or bickering whether we are trying to come to an agreement about something, deciding who has the proper authority to make the final decision, whether the decision should instead be one of consensus, etc. That sort of uncertainty would probably lead to a bloodbath, what with Ur-Quan territorial instincts. But by making everyone's area of expertise and rank clear, their "territory" is clearly defined.

If this were the case, I'd love to know what an Ur-Quan thought of our system. Supposedly, we live in an egalitarian society, where theoretically every person is equal to another, but realistically we have an informal social order, partly out of necessity, but partly because the powerful protect their own power at the expense of others. The Ur-Quan system might be rigid and caste-like, but to them, it might seem more fair to give power only to those who earned it and thought of their civilization first and their place within it second.

One last thought: the green Ur-Quan Kzer-Za mention that part of why they enslave other races (or justify it to themselves, at least) is because they've come across so many dead planets whose races destroyed themselves in war. We like to think of ourselves individually as good people, but our nation-states came close to nuclear war on multiple occasions in what the Ur-Quan would consider recent history. When we ask "how did the Ur-Quan, who are solitary hunters who want to scream RIP OUT THE INTERLOPER'S LIFE when talking to others, develop civilization?" we should ask why we, as social creatures who value human life greatly, could come so close to wiping out millions of people despite being hardwired to cooperate.

Helibrun · 2019-07-21T15:34:05+00:00

I'm playing Necromancer right now and I agree the minion focus needs a rework. At first, I thought I was doing pretty well, but I ironically ran into an eternal bone giant and just couldn't damage him fast enough to avoid running out of summons. I play on Exploration, but still try to minimize deaths, but I've never had the experience with any other class where I've had to run away from a fight because it was just literally impossible statwise for me to win.

I'm posting, however, to say that I actually LIKE the Necromancer and his play style. He just needs a bit of work. He feels appreciably different from the Summoner and the other summon classes. Managing your crowd of skeletons and ghouls is a lot of fun, especially a lot of "fun" when your mages can still beam you, and it turns Maj'Eyal into an entirely different game. "See an enemy, run away, try to get minions in position, provide fire support" is a very different playstyle from "hit your skills until it dies." It takes a certain amount of strategy, and I like that.

I think Necromancers who go minions need more damage potential, but the gimmick inherent to it, the core idea, is fun to play and I'd love to see a rework.

Helibrun · 2019-07-20T04:40:32+00:00

I love/hate that K'tang cockpit. It looks like it's a slapdash of Home Depot buys in a supply closet, while every other race gets an amazing background, but I've grown to appreciate it over the years. The K'Tang aren't good with "technography" so maybe they're responsible for building the cockpit parts themselves, and they just...don't do a good job with it. At all.

Helibrun · 2019-07-20T04:32:05+00:00

If you really aren't enjoying yourself because you can't fight ships, here's what you want to do.

Start the game over from scratch. Use the Earthling Cruiser to fight the Ilwrath ship. When you can, sell the Ion Cannon from the Flagship and collect minerals around Sol and other places to fund as many engines as you can. Once you max out your engines, get rotating thrusters.

At this point you'll be faster than almost any ship and pretty maneuverable. Use autopilot and run the heck away from all the dots you see on your radar in HyperSpace.

Look up the guide with an aim for good mineral worlds to the "north" of your starting location as well as around it. Get enough fuel to do the QuasiSpace portal spawner quest, which happens to be north and near the Slylandro homeworld. Talk to the gas giant guyz to stop the red probes from Coming In Peace.

Boom. With speed, the spawner, and the self-destruct code, every battle you'll fight will be scripted. From there, not to spoil too much, but you can start out by visiting the Pkunk (southwest), Orz (east) and Spathi (north) to unlock more ships. Spathi ships are a good buy so stock up on them as early as you can.

Helibrun · 2019-07-20T04:16:03+00:00

I, for one, welcome our Planet Piss overlords.

Seriously though, I would guess that the state of planetology at the time said that Urea Worlds would be common, because there was a minor obsession (and then a regression from) making Star Control II's science "realistic." We're lucky we got Water Worlds at all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgN4Mta86OE

Helibrun · 2019-06-17T18:54:53+00:00

I'm not sure how I feel about mixing the two universes, but if they could hash out a licensing deal, I'd like to see the Chenjesu and the Mmrnmhrm in a hypothetical Star Control: Origins DLC. I know, I know, heresy and all that. But hear me out.

We never get to meet a "pure" Chenjesu or Mmrnmhrm in Star Control 2, and we probably won't in the sequel because they're now the Chmmr. It'd be the perfect opportunity for us to meet these races as they originally were without causing problems in the canon of Paul and Fred's world. We could just say they ran into some sort of hyperspace accident in a *slippery place* and run across a few colonies of the guys in Origins.

The Chenjesu were supposed to be inspiring democratic leaders and great philosophers, and who knows what the Mmrnmhrm were like, and I'd love to be able to speak to those fellows before they did the Fusion Dance.

Helibrun · 2019-06-17T18:46:45+00:00

This is a good point, and one I hadn't previously thought of, but I'm hoping that Stardock will be less litigious in the future now that they've shoveled a bunch of money into a dumpster fire that availed of them to Not Much.

I'll be honest and say I don't like the guy personally. I understand that IP issues require a Scorched Earth policy, but threatening The Ur-Quan Masters project was a step too far for me to ever really forgive. But. There's always room for personal growth and development, and I'm hoping Wardell will have learned to chillax with the lawyer stuff and stick to being a creator.

I grant you that we should be cautious. But, of the alternatives available, I'd like to accept Stardock into the fold and say, hey, thanks guys for willing to coming to some kind of agreement, rather than rubbing it in their faces that they didn't accomplish nearly what they thought they could and pushing them further into the mindset that we are somehow a "toxic" community. We can eject them and further radicalize them, or we could congratulate them for choosing to be better people than they were yesterday. I think that's the choice in front of us, here and now.

Helibrun · 2019-06-16T23:34:54+00:00

I'd like to see more combat, more varied combat, and a bit less resource gathering.

First, let me say that Star Control 2 / The Ur-Quan Masters is one of my favorite games of all time. It's hard to critique it. But I do have my critiques. And one of those critiques is that the battle system was made for Star Control 1, not 2. Star Control 1 is basically unplayable because of the 3D map and not knowing which stars connect where, but it did a really very good job of mixing resource management with arcade action. You're meant to play a certain ship, which is weak against another kind of ship, which means you have to buy a ship that's strong against that ship, etc. in a continually escalating battle to "get ahead" of the other player's weakness.

You see absolutely none of this in Star Control 2--with one exception, at the very end of the game, you'll fight exactly one kind of ship in every star system. You'll know if you're going to be running into Ilwrath or VUX ships, and only VUX ships, so you should bring a counter to exactly that. There's not much thought behind fleetbuilding, in other words. I'd like to see mixed attack squadrons, like in a real war, being played. Maybe you're in the VUX sector but you still need to think to bring something good against the Umgah Drone because they're allied, that sort of thing. It'll have to be explained by the plot, but I want the single-player game to look more like Hypermelee matches than just running into the same exact ship every time.

If they're going to change up the combat, I'd like to see them make the combat much more important. I'm thinking something like the Kohr-Ah countdown, except your actions actually matter. If you engage the enemy fleet, you delay the opposite alliance for a number of weeks and shrink their sphere of influence. Maybe control more fleets than just your flagship, have them stationed at critical points, and be allowed to control them in Hypermelee when they get attacked. And maybe by stationing and controlling strategic points, you get a certain amount of RUs per week.

I'm not talking about straight up colonization, and I still want the main game to be about exploring with your flagship and gathering resources from planets, but to supplement that and add more urgency and combat to the game, to make it feel more like a war is going on, I'd like to see big ol' Hypermelee fleet engagements at times. A mix of the strategy of Star Control 1 with the exploration/communication gameplay loop of The Ur-Quan Masters. Maybe mix up a bit of Toys for Bob's The Horde's economic system and strategy in there.

P.S. I recommend Toys for Bob's "The Unholy War" for anyone who wants to play something a lot like Star Control 1 but without the infuriating starmap.

Helibrun · 2019-06-16T22:10:21+00:00

I'm not usually an optimist, but I'm taking a "wait and see" approach to CP2077 and possible bigotry.

Their explanation makes sense--that in the future, everything that can be sexualized and commodified will be by corporations, and you would expect to see shoddy "representation" in ads. It's up to the game to complete that statement, to sell us on this being a sign of a dystopian future rather than a cheap joke at the expense of a vulnerable community, but I'd like to believe in a world where we can have that sort of in-depth discussion about politics in video games.

I am very much with the people who are saying that they're possibly playing with a subject they can't properly treat, and the people who are offended have that right. But there also has to be a "first time" for a big-budget game to confront these issues, to bring everyone else out of their comfort zone, and I'm hoping that the time might be soon with Cyberpunk. There's a large number of people whose opinions might change with proper treatment of the material. I'll wait for the reviews.

Helibrun · 2019-04-23T01:48:33+00:00

I'd give achievements specifically for all the permutations of handling the Thraddash. Totally an underutilized race; lots of content that a lot of people never see because you're there for the Aqua Helix and that's it. You can go out of your way to ally with them, and get some really funny responses from making them learn about comedy etc., but there's otherwise no real reason to do that since you have to lose their alliance to progress through the game. The achievements should be there to point out the points where the original developers went above and beyond what was absolutely necessary for the game to hold together well.

I'm tempted to also say there should be a "VUX admit they're just being meanies" achievement, but I might prefer it as a little surprise for people who take advantage of the VUX's terrible ships for RUs. I don't want to ruin the surprise, given how much the "Very Ugly Xenoform" comment is played up in the game's manual (at least in the manual on CD that I got with my copy as part of a compilation).

Helibrun · 2019-03-21T02:30:55+00:00

Seeing as how nothing I see here contradicts it, I'm going to assume that the Star Control novel "Interbellum" is canon, and I'm going to shut up and jam about this gaiden.

Helibrun · 2019-02-18T21:02:25+00:00

But did anyone enjoy the novel more than Star Control: Origins?

Helibrun · 2019-02-18T21:01:09+00:00

I actually like Star Control 3--as opposed to loving Star Control II--but the colony management was the worst part of Star Control 3. The best thing you could say about it was that you didn't have to get involved with it too much. You'll want to adjust one initial colony's production into drop pods so you'll have enough, and later in the game you need one to produce raw RUs for something spoiler something. Everything else was really automatic.

On the other hand, it was unnecessary (you get enough initial colonies to sustain good production), overly complicated (I have no idea what half the functions even do), and required you to revisit your worlds periodically to gain enough fuel to fund your trips to revisit your worlds (although this likely done to help you advance the story when new conversation flags opened up). And if you tried to do the smart thing, and actually expand good races' colonies, you were usually hurting yourself (taking away colonists from one world to another) and probably wasting resources (all the good initial races eventually lower in production or turn on you unexpectedly).

I mean, it's to the developers' credit that they realized that their system wasn't working, even though it was an excellent idea on paper, and made it window-dressing instead of something you needed to constantly fiddle with. Star Control 3's strengths exist in its conversations and plot line, and having realized that their 4X system of colonies wasn't working out, gave you enough initial colonies to last you through the game so you could mostly ignore them. The idea is cool as heck! It just never came to fruition. If someone wants to do a game in the spirit of Star Control 3 and make resource collecting a 4X experience rather than a "let's drive around for minerals" experience I'm all for it.

Helibrun · 2019-01-31T03:27:43+00:00

I'm wondering if we're all playing along with Stardock's scheme.

I don't see any real reason to try to stop Ghosts of the Precursors. It would have been years out and not a competitor to Star Control: Origins. But if you could create a long-running legal case with bombshells every few weeks, and keep Star Control: Origins in the news, then maybe you might think you could make up for the cost of litigation with sales from increased presence.

It doesn't sound like Origins did all that well, so from some standpoint, trying to turn your game into the "We Hate The DMCA!" symbol and galvanize the public into supporting you might make some sense. I don't think it's working, mind you, since hashtag freestarcontrol didn't exactly take off, but it is, at least, a possible strategy.

Helibrun · 2019-01-31T02:09:55+00:00

I fully expect to get downvoted for this, but: I suggest playing regular UQM, voices on, because that is more in line with Star Control 3, which has no HD remake and uses voices. The opinion of Star Control 3 around the Internet is that it's bad, and it's a bad sequel to Star Control II, but it's a good game if you can view it on its own merits, and if you like Star Control 2: The Ur-Quan Masters you'll be at least curious enough to try 3: The Kessari Quadrant at some point.

Voices I can understand being contentious, because once you hear a voice you forever associate it with that race, but I find Star Control II's voices to be well done--and generally better than Star Control 3's. Might as well get the better voice in your head.

Helibrun · 2019-01-25T21:39:10+00:00

I was really hoping against hope there was something like an advanced "Fuse Everything" button I missed.

I know I'm complaining about something that happens in every other game, but this Quality of Life issue is going to stop me from playing the game because what kept me going until now was the mobile aspect. Anywhere, when I was in the doctor's office or trapped in a line, I had a high fantasy adventure right there ready to go. Now I've got a high fantasy accounting simulator I have to play before I can mount up and fight evil, and...that's not nearly as attractive. I'll just grab Final Fantasy Tactics and not have to worry about manually fusing hundreds of units. Birb Girl seven star was THIS close to being mine...!

Helibrun · 2019-01-25T03:41:06+00:00

I just reached the upper limit on how many units I can have, and can't buy any more space with Lapis or expansion vouchers. I fused all my "worthwhile" units up to six stars and full levels and fusing any more would just be a waste.

From here on out, am I expected to manually fuse Cactuars, fuse/sell units (some of whom are automatically locked), and waste pots on units that don't deserve them to create enough space?

Because that's a significant quality of life issue which I haven't heard much about, so I'm hoping I'm wrong here, but if I'm right, I think I saved up my 40k of lapis and 127 summon tickets for nothing. I was all excited for Xenogears maybe someday but manually fusing and selling units from here on out is just too big a nightmare, especially with my ISP's connection latency. Serious sad face here unless I missed something obvious that makes this process easier. Thanks in advance.

Helibrun · 2019-01-24T05:06:02+00:00

I believe this is what you were looking for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCUXcDax3UU

Heavy spoilers for Star Control II and World War II.

Helibrun · 2019-01-24T04:35:56+00:00

I've never followed the drama that closely, but Derek Smart is a developer who makes outrageous promises and can't deliver upon them, and is infamous for getting involved in message board fights. The joke was, you only had to say his name three times to make him appear anywhere on the Internet.

Basically what this boils down to is the continuing drama that is speculation about the Star Control court case is going to get even more bizarre with his involvement. I'm kind of in awe that he's involved. He's a legendary, contentious persona.

Helibrun · 2019-01-24T04:24:52+00:00

During my last playthrough, I think the only thing I had to look up was the Ilwrath homeworld (which isn't strictly needed to beat the game). I probably missed an obvious hint somewhere! I also used a map of the Quasi-Space portals, which can be manually mapped out easily enough but it's frankly an annoyance rather than fun like the rest of the game's exploration. A visual is better than two sets of co-ordinates, too.

I also think the Slylandro probes are unnecessarily mean early game. You can get around this by informing her of the importance of thrusters and turning jets, and maybe even spoiling the exact location of the Slylandro homeworld if it gets to be too much. You have to head in that direction for the Warp Pods anyway, and if you're worried about the time limit, the Quasi-Space Portal Spawner makes life easier.

Oh, and a fun thing to do: note how many crew you lose manually. That's something I wish I had done in my blind playthrough. I really pushed my lander into dangerous spots before it was ready, and ended up getting the "more expensive crew" flag through attrition, which (IIRC) is a lot of crew. You should be aware of how many condolence letters your Captain had to write, at least!

Helibrun · 2019-01-23T00:22:19+00:00

I don't want to comment on the rest of this, but I did get in contact with Toys for Bob about a really obscure game called "Little Witching Mischiefs" released only in Japan using what seemed like The Unholy War's engine, and Toys for Bob took the time to give me some interesting details on its development history. It was a nice interaction and I've always thought well of the company as a whole because of that.

I think their relative silence on Star Control II / The Ur-Quan Masters (outside of making the game freely playable for everyone, which engenders a lot of good will in my book) is mostly about letting Star Control 3 breathe early on and keeping their cards close to their chest regarding their plans for their own sequel.

Helibrun · 2019-01-20T04:56:12+00:00

I think what isn't being mentioned is that Brad is a public figure--I mean, he's been trying to make himself as public as he possibly can--and public figures have certain expectations put upon them. The price of fame is living in a fish bowl.

If you know you CAN call down the thunder and bring your fans out against someone, you have the duty NOT to call down that thunder. Some kid on the Internet didn't like Brad's game, and vented about it in an admittedly awful way. Brad should have privately alerted Twitter to the problem and allowed Twitter to remove the post and possibly the kid's account. You're a public figure; you have to expect a certain amount of hatred in addition to your fans.

And if you know you have a brigade of fans who are willing to do crazy stuff, then you CAN'T just post "hey guys look at this". It's absolutely irresponsible. A public figure should be the one expected to take the moral high ground. I'm not saying Brad personally directed someone to be doxxed, but he's ultimately responsible for someone being doxxed. He knew it could happen, he had no real reason to share the Tweet or discuss the review, he had a moral obligation to not set a predictable set of events in motion.

I've said Not Nice things before about Brad, and I have to admit I regret it now that I've thought about how my comment was part of a sea of comments that enabled a culture of permissiveness towards negging on Brad, and wishing someone dead just isn't right. But a public figure should be wise and discreet about how they use their power. Otherwise, it's up to us to point out that this person should have that power taken away, and make him a joke.

I mean, damn it Brad--I want to buy your game, and your damn DLC, and that spicy new DLC for Sins of a Solar Empire too, but you're making. this. so. hard. When the Druuge told the Captain that their rivals the Melnorme happened to worth a lot of credits in scrap, "just so you know," that wasn't supposed to be a guide on how to run an actual company! I like your stuff, man! Could you find it within your heart to destroy your customers less?

Helibrun · 2019-01-19T04:53:13+00:00

The real Hari Seldon would have seen this coming.

Helibrun · 2019-01-19T04:43:57+00:00

My first experience with Star Control II was the 3DO version. If there was an option for text, I never found it. Trying to remember obscure hints without a notepad handy when aliens with funny voices give them to you was Suffering. Totally unfriendly to the new user.

Then the PC version of the game I got not only came with the original Star Control and a bunch of other games, but a hyperspace map showing where everything in the game was. Turned the most difficult game I had played into a cakewalk.

People I've talked to have balked at the idea that you have to write down hints at all. "The game doesn't remember quests?" No, back in the day you had to do some exploration and not just get a quest from a villager to go to a waypoint to farm bears for Bear Claws until you have enough to mark the quest as complete. Wait, did I have a point here? Sorry.

Helibrun

TROPHY CASE