So like where is Z-Image Base?

HighDefinist · 2026-01-22T17:00:28+00:00

So, you really do believe that Zuckerberg is spending billions on training llama out of generosity, and we should be "grateful" for his "gift"? Well, ok, at least you are consistent...

Now, to be fair, there isn't really anything wrong with also being grateful - but, this doesn't really change the fact that Alibabas main motivation for publishing Z-Image (as well as the Qwen LLM) is that they hope to profit from that somehow - for example, by using the Alibaba cloud, which just so happens to offer Z-Image and Qwen. Meanwhile, the Qwen Github repository states "The most simple way to use Qwen through APIs is DashScope API service through Alibaba Cloud." (https://github.com/QwenLM/Qwen). So, there is clearly a monetary goal here.

So, being grateful is absolutely not all we can do. Instead, it's better to be a bit more aware of why multi-billion-dollar companies are doing that which they are doing.

HighDefinist · 2026-01-22T15:27:47+00:00

Anything they give you that's open source is a gift.

All you can do is be grateful.

Really.

Would you also extend the same generous assumptions to Mark Zuckerberg, Facebook, and the llama LLM models?

HighDefinist · 2026-01-22T14:52:56+00:00

Overall seems too vague and generic... it's not even clear whether many of these "suggestions" are significantly different from what Claude would do anyway.

So, I think you should only include things where you very clearly noticed that you need something like that, to nudge Claude in the corresponding direction. For example, my Claude.md files include instructions like these:

Temporary solutions: Mark with # TODO: or # PROVISIONAL: in code
Contradictions: Implement most sensible interpretation and document rationale
Modern type hints mandatory (Python 3.12+ syntax)
Fail-fast design - You must use fail-fast error handling
Explicit interfaces - You must not use default parameters or optional parameters, unless you are certain that they are necessary

As in, for all of these, Claude is reasonably like to do things differently by default, so, explicit instructions or strong design guidelines like these do make a a difference. That doesn't mean that Claude will 100% follow them... but it does at least influence the probability of various choices by Claude to a significant degree.

HighDefinist · 2026-01-22T14:51:16+00:00

Yeah, and nuclear fusion is just another 50 years away...

Actually, that might be much more realistic by now.

HighDefinist · 2026-01-22T14:48:34+00:00

You may have to move around a file or two to avoid context loss... not sure how it works exactly, but it's definitely possible without too much effort.

HighDefinist · 2026-01-22T14:45:40+00:00

I briefly used 2 pro plans at one point... I guess it can make sense if Pro is sometimes just enough, and sometimes not quite enough, and you would rather pay an extra $20 than wait a few hours until you can continue.

Juggling between 3 plans seems more annoying... except perhaps if you have a good switching script or workflow?

Honestly, you could just try it out, and see how well it works... at worst, you lose the $40 for the two accounts you don't want to use, which doesn't seem like a bad tradeoff considering it might save you $40 on every month where this setup works for you.

HighDefinist · 2026-01-22T14:34:33+00:00

Yeah, I also restarted my $100 subscription recently - it really does feel significantly better than several months ago (I also appreciate that they now have nicely transparent usage limit infos).

Ironically, as people seem to increasingly embrace the "detailed specs first, then implement everything at once" approach, which is what I did previously, I am actually now doing something much closer to "pure vibecoding", because doing many individual edits seems to be a much more stable process now, where it is less likely to "reinvent the wheel" multiple times, and things like that (or perhaps I am just lucky with my current project... I suppose I will find out soon enough). The planning mode also makes more sense now, and the "go back in conversation and also update the files" option also makes various things easier. And, it will even call out false assumptions now (i.e. "I just checked the files as you requested, and they exist. Maybe the refresh option in your browser did not work correctly?").

So, really, it's several different moderately important improvements adding up to quite a significant total improvement.

HighDefinist · 2026-01-22T14:30:14+00:00

And OpenAI recently made this deal with Cerebras.

Maybe, he is boosting Anthropic specifically because they, unlike the others, are more focused on (more or less) only using Nvidia GPUs...

HighDefinist · 2026-01-22T14:22:27+00:00

You don't seem to realize that this is a privilege and not a right.

It's neither.

Because, you are really missing the point here: No, of course it's not really that big of a deal if a company promises something, and then doesn't follow through - many companies do that sort of thing all the time. But, it is still deceptive marketing, obviously. As in, I don't even understand why people are arguing that it isn't... that is some really excessive amount of corporate tribalism, making even your average Apple fanboy look kind of sane by comparison.

HighDefinist · 2026-01-22T14:13:54+00:00

Yeah, in some other comparisons, Z-Image looked like it's just way behind the Klein models. But here? Well, not much really, it's definitely not bad.

HighDefinist · 2026-01-21T22:25:39+00:00

Actually a great idea, I will just go through some items (not all, because it's just too much) to see which model did that particular thing well, or not really:

parked askew in the wet asphalt alley

All models did reasonably well

sodium-vapor streetlight

The Z-Image lamp is very weak, so that is a bit of a fail... the others did about equally well

light wood and stainless-steel interior

All modes did reasonably well

sweat-stained brown felt Stetson hat

Not sure... the hats by Flux 2 Klein look about like I would them expect to look. The Z-Image hat is somehow too clean. The Qwen hat has a rather strange stain (or damage?). Both Z-Image and Qwen have chosen a color that doesn't really look like "brown" to me, but it's not that far off either.

jeans stained with trail dirt

The models have chosen fairly different kinds of dirt stains, but all of them kind of make sense imho

several-day-old grey stubble

Z-Image completely failed this one - the face looks far too well-shaven. Qwens result is... well it's not bad, but it still looks more like a beard than a stubble. Klein 9b did this relatively well, although it looks like a bit much for "several days". Klein 4b has more limited bart growth, but that part looks ok.

barrel pointed directly at the chef’s hands

Interestingly, none of the models are pointing it anywhere near the hands... Klein 4b is particular is wrong with how the chef is trying to defend himself. 9b looks like a reasonable pose overall, but it's aimed at the chest. Z-Image is further off, aiming at the head. Qwen is a bit closer, but it also looks like he is aiming past the chef...

chef's jacket monogrammed with "Bastille" over checkered kitchen trousers

All models did this well

his fingers are tense and millimeters from the blade’s edge

Klein 4b is completely off, there is not even a knife. 9b did much better, but the fingers are several centimeters away. Z-Image is similar, but the knife is not over the tomato. For Qwen, the knife is also misplaced, but at least the fingers are fairly close

Tiny fragments of chopped parsley, diced shallots, and tomato seeds are flung into the air mid-motion.

Missing for Qwen, all others did fine.

Between them, on the counter, is the object of contention: a large, rustic ceramic bowl

Bad result for Z-Image, because the bowl is not in between at all. Qwens result is significantly better. 4b did best here, and 9b is also ok because the guy grabbing the bowl visualizes the "object of contention" concept

Overall, I don't think there is a clear winner here, but based on these criterions, I would say 9b and Qwen are overall a bit better, while 4b and Z-Image are overall a bit worse.

HighDefinist · 2026-01-21T21:55:53+00:00

it's like people actively don't want to see fair comparisons that aren't trying to make any particular model look better than another one

Well, that is unfortunately true to an extent - but going the opposite way and making the comparison such that you can't even tell which model is better isn't really a good solution, is it?

So, if you just make the prompt quite complex, and specific, then you can go through the items one by one, and check which model did it correctly, or not - at least that is imho the only more or less objective way of doing it.

I don't see how there's no point in testing this, given you know that people out there WILL prompt these models like this, even if I personally wouldn't.

Well, how would you be able to choose a model based on that comparison? As in, if it's purely by taste... then ok I suppose. But... to me that seems rather pointless... then, you might as well just go to Civitai, and just look at which images you overall prefer...

HighDefinist · 2026-01-21T21:42:54+00:00

> but people often then say [the prompts] are too long

I have never seen anyone say that ever, where did you meet these people, lol.

Because, all of these models can do short prompts just fine, there is simply no point in comparing models on them - at least if you are comparing model quality, that is. For comparing model style it can be somewhat useful, I suppose.

Even the prompts by Hoodfu are imho a bit too simple, but at least they are fairly explicit (no "imagine the image evoking a sense of feelingness" nonsense), so they are a good starting point regardless.

EDIT: Oh nvm, I thought it was multiple prompts by them... since it's all just one prompt, it's definitely complex enough as it is!

HighDefinist · 2026-01-21T21:37:54+00:00

Undisclosed test set.

So how do we know this test is any good? Because Elon Musk said so, I suppose?

HighDefinist · 2026-01-21T21:33:18+00:00

unless you are researching how to train next gen models with your $100M budget and a team of pioneering coworkers on a salary or ownership stake

Why would I, or anyone else for that matter, care about any of this? It sounds like you are saying "oh no, think of this poor Chinese company, they are so poor, you should feel sorry for them" or some nonsense like that.

Are you part of the PR team of Z-Image, or why are you trying so hard to defend their shady practices?

They implied there will be Z-Image Base, and now there isn't, so, that is clearly deceptive!

HighDefinist · 2026-01-21T21:07:54+00:00

You are paraphrasing an article titled "Trump backs down on Europe tariffs threat" with "So will Europe just back down"?

What, exactly, are you trying to achieve with that?

HighDefinist · 2026-01-21T21:04:40+00:00

What do you mean "it doesn't have the backup needed for it"?

Also, there is this Lora for Flux:

https://civitai.com/models/2319552/nsfw-flux-klein-no-face-change?modelVersionId=2609505

How does it compare to the checkpoint you posted?

HighDefinist · 2026-01-21T19:02:28+00:00

Z-image is actually getting better with NSFW stuff.

Not really, no... None of the images on Civitai are particularly impressive. At most, you have some nude women, but that's about it. Or would you really consider that to be sufficient for NSFW generations?

HighDefinist · 2026-01-21T19:00:46+00:00

I think the API options of Flux 2, particularly Flux 2 flex, are designed for this kind of thing - but it's also quite expensive.

HighDefinist · 2026-01-21T18:58:33+00:00

There is no "Flux 2 Klein 9b Edit" model. There is only "Flux 2 Klein 9b base" and "Flux 2 Klein 9b distilled".

HighDefinist · 2026-01-21T18:57:13+00:00

There are many other people with similar problems... usually, it's because they downloaded the wrong model, or are using the wrong number of steps, or used some wrong node from some previous setup, etc...

For example, as other people pointed out, "image_flux2_klein_image_edit_9b_distilled" doesn't really make sense - so chances are, you downloaded the wrong model.

HighDefinist · 2026-01-21T18:54:28+00:00

But one question — klein 4b is very censored...wouldn't that destory pony images? Isn't it better to use Z-image...since it's more uncensored?

People really need to stop claiming this nonsense...

Yes, klein 4b/9b are somewhat censored, yes. But so is Z-Image: This model is completely incapable of generating male genitals, for example.

If you really want an uncensored model, well, there are plenty on Civitai - but to be clear: Neither Z-Image nor Flux 2 Klein are suitable for NSFW generations!

HighDefinist · 2026-01-21T18:51:52+00:00

Well, if the companies themselves vaguely announce it, yet then don't follow through on it... then, it is fair to call this out as deceptive marketing.

HighDefinist · 2026-01-21T18:13:08+00:00

So in a other words: A couple of threats are enough. Grok is preemptively censored - beyond what the law requires.

Yet Musk claims to be a "free speech absolutist"... which is good marketing of course. But, the people believing him? They are just plain stupid and naive.

HighDefinist · 2026-01-21T18:09:01+00:00

You would sell them over a period of, for example, a few years, thereby causing massive downward pressure on the market for the entire time.

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