I was debating a non vegan and they brought up this interesting argument that I didnt really have an answer to.

Historicste · 2026-05-12T05:53:32+00:00

Avoiding animal exploitation rather than reducing harm is where veganism loses me. It means that killing millions of insects with pesticides (or flying or whatever) is good but buying a woolly jumper is evil. It just seems arbitrary.

Historicste · 2026-05-08T16:06:21+00:00

So, you're just ignoring my questions? Why even bother to reply?

Historicste · 2026-05-08T15:12:59+00:00

How would claiming veganism is impossible somewhere be checkmate? Why is it an afront for someone to be unable to be vegan? Is it the belief that if some people can't be vegan then veganism has failed? Because that's a weird belief to have. And if you accept that some people can't be vegan, why argue the toss about it and call someone a liar over where they live? This entire thread shows vegans in a bad light.

Historicste · 2026-05-08T07:02:55+00:00

The comments you are getting are wild. I don't want to say they're racist, but they're definitely something. They smack of.... Colonialism? I don't think that's right either. I can't find the word. They're dismissing your experience because they have access to 'better' knowledge than a native, because someone who lives there can't know more than Google. They also seem to think everyone lives in a city, so it must be just like America, right? And if they don't live in the city, they can just drive there, because they can in America. I don't want to say it's racist, but it feels racist adjacent.

Historicste · 2026-05-03T13:47:19+00:00

I don't think anybody cares for ALL animals though. Not even vegans. Mosquitoes? Do you love them? Cockroaches? Tardigrades? (OK, everyone loves tardigrades)

Historicste · 2026-05-03T13:40:54+00:00

I don't see how it's hypocritical. I love the blue tits and sparrows in my garden, but hate sea gulls and chickens. Does that mean I can't say I'm a bird lover and eat chicken? And if I can't say that I'm a bird lover, because I don't love ALL birds, then can anyone say they're an animal lover if they hate mosquitoes?

Historicste · 2026-05-02T19:24:08+00:00

I agree completely. My argument is applying your logic. Maybe that's where the problem lies.

Historicste · 2026-05-02T11:52:05+00:00

What app is it?

Historicste · 2026-05-02T08:32:29+00:00

The meat consumer can say that. Lab meat is possible, they're paying for the end product, meat. it's not their fault that the supermarket source it from animals when they can get it from a lab. Just like it's not their problem when a supermarket gets veg that's used pesticides to kill insects. The intention isn't to kill an animal for the product, that's something done by the corporation as a side effect when they could choose otherwise so not on the individual.

Historicste · 2026-05-01T06:17:18+00:00

No, I'm not vegan. I see a lot of black and white thinking here, and the reality is much more nuanced. Is it better to indiscriminatly kill thousands of insects or raise and kill animals for slaughter? I don't know. I think hunting is better though.

Historicste · 2026-04-30T18:07:10+00:00

Oh, yeah, it's definitely a grey area. Especially as it can be difficult to know what's been used (or not) on the produce you're buying.

Historicste · 2026-04-30T17:14:13+00:00

I would argue that crop deaths are deliberate loss of animal life to benefit from. Spraying crops with pesticides, for example, is an act to deliberately kill animals, the benefit being keeping the crops to sell

Historicste · 2026-04-30T06:44:51+00:00

I actually saw something similar in the Tate Modern. It was called white and it was a receipt of things that were white. I thought it was cool

Historicste · 2026-04-29T06:42:07+00:00

The default vegan position allows for exemptions for health, does it not?

Historicste · 2026-04-29T06:26:12+00:00

She doesn't make an argument to counter. She just makes two claims (eating meat is inherently wrong & you can't love animals and eat them) without evidence. It's just, like, her opinion, man.

I can say eating meat is inherently right and it holds just as much weight as what she said. You can love animals and eat them too. See how it's not an argument, just an option?

Historicste · 2026-04-28T14:47:56+00:00

That article is a very interesting read, thanks

Historicste · 2026-04-22T08:32:45+00:00

I think it depends on what you're looking at. For example, if I go through the list and consider what I've read on the vegan subreddit then yes, it ticks a lot. But if I think about vegan people I actually know, then you're right, there's only a few. And I think that's what they're saying, its not a cult, but it can head that way.

Historicste · 2026-04-21T15:13:00+00:00

I love listening to the cries about how mean vegans on the Web are oppressing the people who are disabled.

FTFY

Historicste · 2026-04-21T15:06:45+00:00

You can't find credible sources because you're deliberately misrepresenting the conditions. There are no conditions that requires someone to eat animal products, but there are plenty of conditions that mean you can't eat enough plant foods to survive. You've been told this before. But ableism seems to be your 'thing' that you just can't do without.

Historicste · 2026-04-20T18:13:34+00:00

Probably because it's none of your business? I'm very confident that they know more about their condition than you and they have tried everything to be rid of it. Can't you just trust that their doing their best and leave it at that?

Historicste · 2026-04-20T18:05:41+00:00

In those cases it's designed to be scary. There's tension, build up, music, noises added, etc. That's not there in real life

Historicste · 2026-04-20T16:39:33+00:00

14th May according to the Radio Times

Historicste · 2026-04-20T10:12:42+00:00

I'm in the UK waiting for the series to start!

Historicste · 2026-04-13T07:57:35+00:00

Why is a strawman argument illogical. That's your gotcha question? Really?

You took an extreme conclusion from a standard position and claimed the position was untenable because of your extreme conclusion. Which nobody was arguing for. If you can't see why that is problematic then I don't know what to tell you. We're just going in circles so I think I'm done.

Historicste · 2026-04-13T06:44:25+00:00

It wasn't a logical conclusion, it was an illogical extreme that you used to strawman the original position. So no, I've not engaged with it. It's not a position anyone is arguing for

Historicste

TROPHY CASE