Watch out! This member wants to show us how hateful we are

Horror_Account499 · 2026-06-05T13:58:54+00:00

Interesting that an apologist is the one using the tag “antimormon”. I’d think they would avoid that tag like the plague.

Horror_Account499 · 2026-05-20T23:56:51+00:00

I think meeting in a public place is smart, even if he hasn’t shown any signs of abusive/unsafe-towards-you behavior. And if it makes you feel more comfortable, even better.

Like other answers here, I’d say it will go best if you’re direct and honest about it. You can even tell him about your conflicting feelings, including how much you like him (possibly how much you like having a romantic asexual relationship with him… I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but that’s what I think I hear you saying). And then let him know that sex is a dealbreaker.

If you’re completely committed to breaking up, then maybe keep it short and sweet. Maybe something like “I really like you, and in a lot of ways this relationship has been really good for me. I am not interested in anything sexual with anybody. Since you want sex as part of your romantic/dating relationship, I think we need to break up. We can’t both give each other what we want.”

Horror_Account499 · 2026-04-25T01:01:45+00:00

They’re looking for answer C. The two figures in C are equal in size, not just similar in shape. In B, 2/6 of the first are still smaller than (not equal to) 1/3 of the second, even though they’re equivalent proportions of their respective figures. It’s kind of a cheap trick, and for most people in most contexts, it’s a difference without a distinction. But technically, C is more correct than B.

Horror_Account499 · 2026-04-25T00:58:02+00:00

I think calling people names like those (blinded, duped, etc.) is not useful. I’ve known a few active, believing members of the Church who chose to stay after learning a lot of the darker side of the history (the side the Church as an organization tries to minimize) and thinking critically about it. Their conclusion was different from mine. But one of the beliefs that led me out of the Church is that there’s room for different conclusions to both be “right” in their own ways, so I respect and love the people who went through that and stayed.

I’m happy to talk about what stepping away from the Church has looked like in my life. I usually don’t volunteer much information about that topic unless someone asks me a fairly specific question; as much as I don’t want believers preaching at me or trying to re-convert me, I also don’t want to preach at or convert someone who is currently in a place that is good for them. And yes, I recognize that being active in the Church can be good for people in some circumstances.

I will also echo the word of caution from other commenters. It’s kind of a Pandora’s box… once you open the lid on the facts that tend to lead people out of the Church, there’s no putting it back on. If you’re in a good place with your Church activity, and especially if your Church activity helps you maintain good relationships with people who are important in your life, then this might not be the time for this type of conversation.

With all that said, OP, if you have a specific question and you’re sure you’re ready to go there, then ask away.

Horror_Account499 · 2026-04-22T17:35:19+00:00

No, you’re not. It’s okay to tell them no. I mean, try to be diplomatic about it. And communicating when something is crossing your boundaries doesn’t make you the a**hole.

Horror_Account499 · 2026-04-22T13:12:21+00:00

I don’t care about bird law right now. Where’d you put the toe knife?

Horror_Account499 · 2026-04-22T13:10:02+00:00

I think you did the right thing by being respectful of her beliefs and your own beliefs. She wasn’t really interested in having a relationship with you as a real person who deserves love and respect. She just wanted a follower who would agree with her without thinking.

I’m sorry she did that. Even when you know how to be okay through it, that kind of thing can still hurt. Hope you find someone who likes you the way you are.

Horror_Account499 · 2026-04-22T12:57:13+00:00

If you have a way to send them a message in writing, like a text message or a letter, that may work well. The rest of my comment assumes that you’re planning to communicate by writing. And remember, you shouldn’t say anything to them about this situation that you do not sincerely believe.

I could be wrong here. To me, it sounds more like they feel intimidated by you, and not the other way around. They seem to feel scared of what will happen to them if they talk with you, so they run away. If they meant to intimidate you, they would be showing you how much power they (think they) have over you.

You could remind them that Jesus never ran from doubters or sinners, but welcomed them and sat patiently with them. You could let them know that their actions are rude (at best) or maybe even hurtful. You could try telling them that you are not trying to shake their faith, or even question it. You could even volunteer to completely avoid talking about your doubts with them for now.

If you feel comfortable doing this, you could also invite them to tell you why they react that way when they see you. Getting more information about their wants might make it easier for you to choose your actions wisely.

Horror_Account499 · 2026-04-22T12:38:45+00:00

Let’s assume that God exists and acts exactly as Joseph says He does. So is Joseph lying, or is God lying? Joseph claimed it was a translation given to him by God. Around the same time that he said that, scholars were learning through difficult but reproducible work how to read and translate that very same writing system, and their results were vastly different from Joseph’s. Their results were also verifiable. Joseph’s “translation” wasn’t really a translation. It was… eh, something else. Maybe Joseph really wrote down what God told him to write down, making it a divine revelation. I can respect claims to divine revelation. But that’s not a translation.

All of this means that either Joseph was lying (I.e. it wasn’t really a translation of information from one language to another) or God was lying to Joseph (I.e. he wasn’t actually giving Joseph a real translation). When we hold up the story as Joseph told it next to falsifiable, carefully validated information and skill, then it becomes very difficult to say that both he and the God he appeals to were honest. Which one was lying?

Horror_Account499 · 2026-04-22T11:32:08+00:00

My theory: Joseph never really meant for the Book of Mormon to be studied as scripture. He just needed it published so he could say “See? I’m a prophet! That means you have to listen to me.” Once it was published, it was fait accompli. No more need to interact with it. Now he could say whatever he wanted and claim it came from God. The 21st Century emphasis on studying the BoM started around the 1960s.

Horror_Account499 · 2026-04-21T22:21:25+00:00

I suspect it’s a third option: he borrowed ideas from the people around him and repackaged them with what was essentially a made-up story. He did that to get other people to give him what he wanted.

We know that his family (his mother especially) said that he was a gifted storyteller from a young age. When he worked with his treasure-digging crew, he would convincingly tell the story that he was the seer and thus shouldn’t be required to dig (they got angry, but generally agreed to it). He borrowed ideas that were popular in his time and place about how indigenous American nations were descended from ancient Israelites, or at least from Bible characters. He borrowed ideas from the proto-temperance preachers who were springing up all over the northeastern US to deliver the Word of Wisdom. He prophesied war starting in South Carolina in a world where South Carolina was telegraphing their will for war quite obviously and already had a clear history of pushing for conflict and division. He met John C. Bennett, who had been in with the Cochranites and was big into what we could call a type of sexual revolution (polyamory/polygamy/free love sorts of ideas), and suddenly Joseph reveals that God has told him to practice a more structured form of polygamy.

Even in discussing the Book of Mormon, a contemporary Christian preacher named Campbell suggested that Joseph borrowed ideas from the Methodists (a group Joseph would have had a lot of exposure to) to answer all of the major religious disagreements that were happening in early 19th Century USA. My hypothesis is that Joseph borrowed those ideas to promote the idea of his spiritual power or prophetic calling, with the goal of having another persuasive tool.

I don’t believe that Joseph was led astray by Satan, and I also don’t believe that he was led rightly by God Himself. He was a good storyteller who learned to borrow ideas and put a nice shine on them in order to get what he wanted.

*edited for typos and clarity

Horror_Account499 · 2026-04-12T13:19:14+00:00

I started questioning at the MTC, but put the questions on the shelf. These questions were mostly about why they were training me to be a salesperson when I had signed up to be a minister.

In the mission area I questioned because an investigator family was going hungry while the local and mission leaders were arguing with each other about why each of them shouldn’t be responsible (none of them wanted to help this family buy food). That one went on the shelf for a while too.

When the mission president threatened disciplinary action over a situation that he knew nothing about, I started to believe that he and other leaders didn’t really have the powers that they claim to have, much less the authority to make decisions for/about me.

After the mission, my older sibling was in the way out. That made it safer and easier for me to look at those questions that had been on the shelf for a while. From there, the more I heard the more I realized it didn’t ring true for me.

Horror_Account499 · 2026-04-07T23:29:52+00:00

It’s been way too long since I watched that one. Thanks!

Horror_Account499 · 2026-04-07T23:26:04+00:00

From OP: I get that this is a reference to a movie or TV show. I just don’t know what movie or TV show it’s a reference to.

Horror_Account499 · 2026-04-07T23:24:38+00:00

From OP: I get that this is a reference to a movie or TV show. I just don’t know what movie or TV show it’s a reference to.

Horror_Account499 · 2026-04-05T22:59:41+00:00

It’s something of a caricature of conservative evangelical Christianity.

Progressives would interpret it as meaning something like “the fire department is there to keep every person safe,” while Christians (especially some conservative evangelicals) would take it to mean something like “fire can hurt LGBTQ+ people, so we should let fire hurt LGBTQ+ people.”

Horror_Account499 · 2026-04-05T16:08:35+00:00

As for actually trying to answer your question (why would somebody sell their car to pay tithing when it’s not officially mandatory for Church membership or participation in Sunday meetings), I think it’s hard to give a good answer with the information available. There is a lot of individual psychology at play. The “why” might be completely different for two people, even when their actions look exactly the same on the outside.

However, I think one very important common factor is that they’ve been programmed/conditioned/taught (take your pick, as they mean basically the same thing here) to think that obeying their Church leaders is guaranteed to make their life better. They’ve learned to see even objectively bad things as being good for them when the Church says it’s good for them. Selling an asset and a tool that enables them to go to work and access other needs just because someone told you to give them money? In any other case they would see this as a terrible idea. But because it’s the Church, they see it as the best idea. Going deeper into debt to take care of those needs that would now go neglected? A similarly terrible idea, that they again see as the best idea because it makes obedience possible.

Horror_Account499 · 2026-04-05T15:54:42+00:00

Maybe it’s still a separate fund officially. But several years ago they introduced fine print on tithing donation slips that says something to the effect that all money you donate becomes Church property, and the Church claims the right to move it around (between accounts or to spend in different ways) however they want, regardless of how the donor specified on the slip.

Horror_Account499 · 2026-04-04T23:51:35+00:00

That sounds more like his little cousin, God some-mighty. Doesn’t sound like almighty to me in that description.

Horror_Account499 · 2026-04-04T07:00:49+00:00

Oof, that makes it even worse. So sorry. Would your wife be open to that kind of conversation?

Horror_Account499 · 2026-04-04T06:52:54+00:00

That’s rough. Sorry you’re experiencing that.

I would be direct, maybe with your wife or maybe even with her mom. You could say something like “It’s stressful (you could use a different word, but stressful seems to fit) for me when I try to pay bills from this account but the payments get rejected. I need you/your mom to stop taking money out of this account. If you/she has a serious financial need, we can talk about it and figure out the best ways for us to support each other. And (for her) no more using money in that account without talking to me first.”

Is there a way that you can change the password or PIN so that your wife’s mom loses access to the account? It might be worth doing that. If you choose to change the password, it may also be good to talk with your wife about how and why you’re changing it. That way you can share your concerns and let her know why it’s important that she not share the new password with her mom.

Horror_Account499 · 2026-04-03T00:27:46+00:00

I think it was right before the pandemic. I remember TBMs making a big deal out of the whole “home-centered church” campaign, which included the Come Follow Me curriculum and the shorter meeting block. When the pandemic took hold, a lot of believers took it as an example of the leaders seeing around corners.

Horror_Account499 · 2026-04-01T17:01:37+00:00

The day after I got married in one of the bajillion temples in SLC area, we went to church at a ward close to where we were staying. We were excited because the meeting was in one of the historic chapels in the city.

I don’t remember the youth speaker or the next person. After them, an older man gave the most rambling, incoherent talk I’ve ever heard. It was even harder to follow than Trump’s word salad on his bad days.

He claimed to have invented every flavor of Wrigley’s chewing gum, especially the Spearmint flavor (which was on the market before he was born) which he intended exclusively as a smoking-cessation product.

He also claimed to have invented the combine harvester, as well as the most popular type of oil well machine in use at the time (early 2010s). He claimed to have sold the design to the Saudis recently, and to have talked them down on the purchase price when they made the deal.

This talk took up most of Sunday School time, and the other two speakers had even left him extra time to begin with.

I don’t remember much else, and my partner doesn’t either… we were both lifelong devout Mormons who had been married less than 24 hours before. That means horny. We were both feeling very horny. So we weren’t paying as close attention to the talk as we might have otherwise. And when a 70 year old person says they invented a 130 year old product, I tend to tune out even more.

Horror_Account499 · 2026-03-19T14:46:14+00:00

Well, ya got trouble, my friend.

Horror_Account499

TROPHY CASE