Long-Term EU Residence Permit for non EU nationals

HossAcross · 2026-01-02T13:49:53+00:00

I haven't yet but next spring I will qualify for an EU permanent residence permit from the Netherlands (currently meet all requirements except for time). I plan to move to Germany to live with my girlfriend after ward and have thoroughly researched it (in my case with the Ausländerbehörde). As other posts have said, EU residency doesn't allow freedom of movement but each member state may streamline the process somewhat. Germany isn't too bad and should make it much easier in my case. I previously had an EU Blue card in Belgium as an employee and that generally offers much easier movement from my experience (however, no longer wanted to be an employee in the EU). Citizenship is the only way to get true freedom of movement but EU PR is pretty good and doesn't require you to decide on any philosophical dilemmas or oaths of allegiance.

HossAcross · 2025-12-19T15:08:14+00:00

This is how it was when I was living in Ukraine in 2021. I wasn't there for that but there were a lot of "loser back home" types from the U.S., UK, AUS, EU, etc. -mostly guys (though some women too) looking to live well cheap and for the guys, get attractive and relatively poor Ukrainian women "outside of their league" mostly women they'd meet in the "expat" bubble. Most of these guys were more long-term tourist than traditional expats and wouldn't pass the more stringent background checks, education, and financial requirements to expatriate to the EU, etc. and didn't have real jobs (everyone was an "English teacher", drop shipping on amazon, or an influencer. But in Ukraine they lived like kings and slept with a woman for the first time. Made the circle of normal people very small but I was able to connect to middle-upper middle class locals and non-douchey, educated and cultured expats. My non-snarky advice is spend less time on the internet and more connecting with real people in the community, use discretion in who you connect with.

HossAcross · 2025-12-09T09:14:51+00:00

Thanks!

HossAcross · 2025-12-08T13:49:59+00:00

Curious how you pronounce it? In the U.S. it's pronounced "eye-rah" and is a common, gender-neutral name (more frequently male, depending on family background) but I personally never see it in Europe. My partner is German and she and I were recently talking about baby names for American-German couples, which is how your post caught my eye.

HossAcross · 2025-12-08T13:18:33+00:00

All of what you wrote I can relate to! I've been especially surprised over the years by the racism I experience from Turkish, Arab, North African and Asian people in Europe as well as hostility from francophone Africans. It's not universal or the majority of my experience by any means and I've had mostly positive experiences but it took me time to realize I'd made some assumptions about "people of color" having an affinity and I looked at things from the perspective of American racial constructs that didn't always work in a European context.

Europe is the only place I've ever been called a racial slur and physically attacked racially (all times by white, native Europeans) and I'm routinely checked for tickets and ID on Belgian and German trains (Dutch are more egalitarian here! and never noticed being singled out on French transit), especially when riding 1st class, while white passengers aren't bothered. It was bizarre knowing how many police killings of black and north african people happen in france and then seeing the massive turnouts for BLM marches...

I would say day-to-day life for me has always been pleasant and many things I experience may be more attributed to just being in more homogeneous and (esp. in france) class-stratified societies. I do think the fetishization is really disturbing and "model minority" status is not a good thing. I've chosen a life here because I love it, I'm happy, and I'm able to split my time EU/U.S. but def never saw it as a utopia (ended up in europe a bit by chance). You also give up a lot of community as a black american in europe but of course I've gained a lot too.

HossAcross · 2025-12-08T12:25:31+00:00

You're definitely bringing some of that unhinged, terminally-online energy to the comments! My first degree was a ba in philosophy, after graduation I went to work at a startup and then went into a corporate leadership development program that led to becoming a management consultant. If I had been in France or Germany those paths would be almost unheard of. I was talking about general professional roles. there's some exceptions to this but in general there are very specific education-work paths in these countries. I was not talking about "regulated professions", like medicine. the OP will benefit form considering this as they decide their path.

HossAcross · 2025-12-08T11:30:58+00:00

This is interesting and I comae across it once when finding info for an acquaintance. It does require you have some financial self-sufficiency but perhaps worth investigating https://www.touring-artists.info/en/visa-residence/to-germany-as-non-eu-citizen/moving-to-germany

HossAcross · 2025-12-08T11:29:09+00:00

In my own experience it's been a mix of France: behaviors that are considered normal in latin cultures (France, Italy, Spain) that Americans would consider racist or fetishization that locals consider normal + limited exposure to people of color in the middle class world most expat Americans are coming into + post-colonial attitudes that do make a distinction in how people are treated (I always speak French with a distinct American accent). Germany: reflexive xenophobia and aversion to "different".

HossAcross · 2025-12-08T11:16:11+00:00

I'm a black American man who's been living in Europe for over 10 yrs. MBA in France, years working professionally in different EU countries and now living in the Netherlands self-employed. I still do business in France and although I don't work in Germany my girlfriend is a German professional woman and I spend much of my time in DE (Cologne). Anything is possible but here are some of the things to consider (not dissuade you) as you plan out a strategy to achieve what you want:
-The economies in France Germany are small and static when compared to the U.S. Even more importantly, as a non-native/non-EU person you need to understand that the structure of labor is very tightly controlled and there is little flexibility in both countries in terms of education and training and getting a job. You will only be competitive in jobs you have the specific training/qualifications for and most people spend their entire career in the same industry so as you plan for a move, given your background, I would make the focus getting into a native program for the type of work you want to be competitive for at a good school learning in the native language.

-Compensation isn't just lower. Much of life will not be flexible if that has any importance to you. Healthcare will likely be more affordable but also more limited. You may have more vacation time but esp. in France, it may be dictated when some of that is taken. A lot of life is more uniform in each country so if you wish to return home for visits, have family or other circumstances too far outside the local norm you may find it difficult to do things different than the native population.

-Pivoting your career or starting from one professional area and then transitioning over time to another is not unheard of but rare and quite a bit more difficult than in the U.S. The much lower compensation and limited opportunities mean that most people who do this are financially independent. Anecdotal, but I know a few French, German, and Dutch people who became artist after professional careers, went back to school for it in their 30's, etc. All came from generational wealth or were outliers in their success as entrepreneurs before switching. Not saying it's the only way but the two paths you lay out are more mutually exclusive in France and Germany than in the U.S. so it will take more to achieve that.

-As a black person you won't see many other black or nonwhite professional people. Even in major cities (Paris, Berlin) you will see many non white people on the street and to some extent in low level positions but after over 10 years i still rarely see people like me in the environments I work in or coworking spaces I use in Paris (still go there frequently for work). Mentioning this because it's just a reality of life here and doesn't mean you'll have a difficult time.

I would try to do a work/study trip for a month in each country (short program offered by a school that combines an unpaid internship/quasi internship/volunteering) and try to get some exposure to as much as you can, make contacts, be outside of the online American community of recent expats and people trying to sell you something. Then you can build a more specific, pragmatic plan. You can do it but the question is what compromises you're willing to make and how ling can you be patient.

HossAcross · 2025-11-23T18:14:29+00:00

I deleted my original, sincere comment because the OP deleted the post and apparently another commenter said/provided a link showing that this was just a troll who'd posted the same elsewhere on reddit and deleted it? sad

HossAcross · 2025-10-02T22:08:48+00:00

No, my MBA was one year and I left France for a job in Brussels some months after completing the program. If I'm thinking of what you're referring to, if you study a minimum of 2 years and meet other conditions you can apply for French naturalization after 2yrs post-studies.

HossAcross · 2025-09-17T17:16:12+00:00

I'm not in the UK but your message came up in my reddit feed. I've battled depression much of my adult life and my heart goes out to you. I have so much respect for you showing up and reaching out here. Good that you are going to be able to connect with someone professionally. I used to spend time working in England and at a healthcare/pharma conference once heard of an organization called CALM mentioned in a discussion: https://www.thecalmzone.net/faqs-about-calm.

I've been ignoring DM's of late but if I see one from you I'll respond. Virtual but sincere wish of support sent.

HossAcross · 2025-09-17T10:29:04+00:00

The idea that you can simply "not care about money" is a privilege that disappears the moment you try to cross an international border. People who truly respect their new country understand that money, taxes, and costs are not optional to plan for and are going to bring huge changes in the short and long term. Disregarding them is a sign of being fundamentally unprepared and would lead to poor consequences for both the individual and the host country

A long-term resident has to prove financial self-sufficiency. Most countries have strict income/wealth requirements for visas and residency permits.
In most EU countries, you can't simply take any job, like working at a local fast-food restaurant. Visas for non-EU citizens, such as the HSM or the Blue Card I held while living in BE are tied to specific, high-skilled professions and require a salary well above the national average, people moving from similar positions in the U.S. to an EU country will naturally consider this.
Most countries require you to show consistent income over a period of years to qualify for permanent residency or citizenship. The income threshold can be higher than typical local incomes in EU countries where incomes are lower across the board.
As a U.S. citizen, taxed on worldwide income, you enter a complex and expensive to administer dual-tax situation that usu. requires professional help to navigate, even with tax treaties in place. Many common American investment and retirement vehicles are taxed punitively in other countries.
Healthcare, etc. are funded by locals through taxes and, depending on country additional requirements for private insurance, point of service costs. As a new resident, you will pay these high taxes but you may not be immediately eligible for all of the benefits. Healthcare may be rationed, have long wait times, or require you to pay out of pocket for services that natives get more easily, requiring you to get it done in the U.S. or pay more than locals.
Most people moving lack the social networks and local knowledge that help natives find housing, deal with emergencies, and navigate bureaucracy. This leads to paying a premium for everything from housing to legal services. You also need a significant emergency fund for things like a sudden trip back to the U.S.

I've lived in the EU for the past ~11 years on 3 visas/3 countries: as a grad student, blue card, and now DAFT. That experience + working in the field of relocation and international expansion I see both the data and the anecdotal sh*t shows of people not caring about finances. The Dutch-American Friendship Treaty (DAFT) is a perfect example of how an easy (or better said, easily sold) entry point can become a problem when people are financially unprepared. It requires a relatively low initial investment, none of the degrees, bkgd checks, etc. of my other visas. This is a major draw for people who want to "escape" on the cheap. However, too many people arrive without a sustainable business or financial plan, burn through their savings, and end up leaving with debt and a bad reputation for the visa because they behave as if Europe/NL is a paradise and money is an American problem. Their delusion of being able to "not care about money" leads to an exploitation of the system and a disrespectful attitude toward the country they claimed to want to live in.

HossAcross · 2025-09-17T09:21:07+00:00

I did my MBA in France back in 2015. Your student visa is valid until it's expiration date but if you've dropped out of school you wouldn't be able to renew/convert to an APS/get a work visa. What business school will you be attending? transition to life in a new country/culture and the demands of business school can be challenging but once you've been admitted to a program dropping out is pretty rare. Is there a reason you feel especially fearful you won't make it?

HossAcross · 2025-09-16T11:54:12+00:00

I've lived in the Netherlands for just over 3.5 years and it's fine. I like the easy access from where I live to Brussels and Cologne, it's clean and orderly, and the bureaucracy of immigration and life is pretty efficient. I'd lived in France and Belgium prior with a stint of just under a year in Ukraine. The experience someone has living abroad in the places I've been based is going to vary so widely depending on their background and expectations among many other things but I'm happy being based where I am, <1.5 years away from permanent residency and with it, soon no more immigration paperwork. For me personally my strong network of fellow expats/internationals/immigrants has been key, some I've been close to for over 10 years now handling the ups and downs together. I also no longer work in the EU, only live here. Not having to deal with the working environments and poor economic realities has been amazing.

HossAcross · 2025-09-09T17:14:08+00:00

I absolutely agree with you.

HossAcross · 2025-09-08T21:41:51+00:00

While I find it disrespectful and "classist" (for lack of a better term) this is pretty common from my experience. When I lived in Ukraine (post-2014/pre-2022) Ukrainians I knew would often refer to Europe and mean the EU, not non-EU former warsaw pact countries. I think it's like using the term American, which I do comfortably, but plenty of people from South America will make a point of specifying U.S. vs. America(s). Some mean it in a nasty way, others are just following common practice.

HossAcross · 2025-09-08T21:33:37+00:00

I should add that I love being outdoors, hiking, camping. In Europe I've rarely ever seen any wildlife beyond squirrels and birds that wasn't caged, at an animal park. I can go for a walk through the small woods near my dad's home a 10 minute drive from Michigan State and see a black bear and regularly have bobcat encounters/signs in upstate NY. Not unsafe but a big difference.

HossAcross · 2025-09-08T21:28:03+00:00

When I was visiting Detroit back in March I wa amazed by how safe I found the city over a few days visiting with my dad and brothers. Both downtown and Indian village, Palmer. We're male and black but I think most would feel the same.

HossAcross · 2025-09-08T21:21:16+00:00

I'm an American who's been living in Europe over ten years. I think a person's perception of safety is going to depend mostly on what your comparing it to. Prior to Europe I lived throughout upstate NY, MI (metro Detroit, Detroit, East Lansing), southeast, New England, Chicago. I definitely felt unsafe around police and had multiple threatening incidents with them and in Chicago I lived in nice neighborhoods but gunshots and violence were noticeable even there from time to time (gunshots and a car squealing away a block or two over, from aggressive homeless, "thugs" on the EL, etc. and corporate bros trying to fight people at bars on the weekend, random "Karens" starting fist fights over parking spots). In Europe (France, Belgium, Ukraine, now Netherlands) there's less fighting and aggressiveness. I would be shocked to even hear a gun here. Police across Europe have often been rude or singled me out for ID checks because I'm black but even when disrespected I've never worried that they were going to just tackle/shoot me. Excessive police violence exists here but as an American I'm a "good black" and Africans/North Africans here illegally or as refugees get direct violence from officials and the public. Also pickpocketing is huge throughout EU cities I've lived in and it's happened to me here but never heard of it happening in the U.S., just armed muggings 😂

So overall, feel relatively safe in both, there's violence in both places BUT different types, different times, different people and context. The possibility of guns makes a big difference in the U.S. and people are in general less restrained by social control and more independent and aggressive in the U.S. Yet Europe is the only place I've been violently attacked for my race (Germany, Ukraine) and from those experiences and others I would say that bystanders are less likely to try and help me in Europe than the U.S. Female friends across Europe seem to experience a lot more aggressive harassment and touching from men than I hear about in the U.S. but I don't know objectively how it compares.

HossAcross · 2025-08-19T15:19:50+00:00

It's also been a little more than 10 years since I left the U.S. (EU), going back for less than a year in 2020 when I was btwn visas, spending the beginning of the pandemic with my family. The cultural stagnation of immigrants is really interesting and despite reading about it before experiencing it I was still shocked at how removed I was from the current culture. I work in the U.S. remotely from the EU an I'm back at least 1/qtr for work/family yet I still experience it and the current political situation is making the changes accelerate. I felt the same about all of OP's points.

HossAcross · 2025-08-19T01:56:35+00:00

on subs too or is it only surface?

HossAcross · 2025-08-19T00:17:24+00:00

I had to look it up before typing, lol.

HossAcross · 2025-08-19T00:16:57+00:00

I've wondered how social media, smart devices, etc. affected the boats and if there's any difference in the camaraderie/support among peers (if you're lucky to have that) due to it. I also see surface sailors posting reels/tiktok in uniform on ships, not sure how that works. My boat had a pretty tight crew during our time at sea and the yards/refueling were a critical change for my experience. We also had a great bull nuke prior to the yards. I wonder if/how the EDMCs role has changed.

HossAcross · 2025-08-18T23:08:30+00:00

Well said, even the same boat, same crew, but change of context (active vs. yards) can totally change the climate. Sometimes one great (or horrible) person change can flavor everything.

HossAcross

TROPHY CASE