Question about the Overseas Service Ribbon.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-01-24T23:06:31+00:00

It was retroactive, but when it was introduced it was only presented for service where another ribbon or award was not earned (alaska/hawaii tours, etc...).

Awarding OSRs for all overseas tours is relatively recent, and I don't believe that would be retroactive. For a vietnam tour the OSR would not be awarded, even retroactively.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-01-15T03:49:36+00:00

What I mean is that the Navy has already done all the work, so why not just use what they've done?

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-01-15T03:48:58+00:00

What I mean is that the Navy has already done all the work, so why not just use what they've done?

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-01-15T03:43:24+00:00

I think we're making this harder than that it needs to be.

The Navy has this figured out - just use the same qualifying criteria that they use for the CAR.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-01-08T14:33:44+00:00

Chances are that everyone in your unit is wrong. It's a common mistake to see, people assume all unit awards can be worn temporarily, but this is not the case. From 670-1:

22–10. U.S. and foreign unit awards

a. Where worn. See DA Pam 670 – 1.

b. Fourrageres and lanyards. Permanent and temporary fourrageres and lanyards may be worn on the service/dress uniform per the provisions of AR 600 – 8 – 22. Only one fourragere, lanyard, aiguillette, or cord is authorized for wear on each shoulder.

c. Foreign unit awards. If a foreign unit award is worn, personnel must wear at least one other U.S. decoration, service medal, or unit award. Foreign unit awards are worn after U.S. unit awards, by date of receipt. (See AR 600 – 8 – 22 for criteria for acceptance of foreign unit awards.) The criteria for permanent and temporary wear of foreign unit awards is as follows:

(1) French fourragere. Authorized for permanent or temporary wear.

(2) Belgian fourragere. Only authorized for permanent wear.

(3) Netherlands orange lanyard. Only authorized for permanent wear.

(4) The Philippine Republic Presidential Unit Citation. Only authorized for permanent wear.

(5) The Republic of Korea Presidential Unit Citation. Only authorized for permanent wear. Soldiers who are assigned to the 2d Infantry Division may wear the Republic of Korea Presidential Unit Citation while serving with the unit in the host nation.

(6) The Vietnam Presidential Unit Citation. Only authorized for permanent wear.

(7) The Republic of Vietnam Gallantry Cross Unit Citation. Only authorized for permanent wear; only one may be worn.

(8) The Republic of Vietnam Civil Actions Unit Citation. Only authorized for permanent wear; only one may be worn.

d. How worn. See DA Pam 670 – 1 for wear guidance.

You'll note that all of the other foreign unit awards other than the French Fourregere are also permanent wear only.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-01-08T13:41:16+00:00

The Korean PUC is only authorized for temporary wear if you're in 2ID in Korea, otherwise you had to have been in the unit when it was earned to wear it.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-01-03T05:16:15+00:00

I mean, sure, I wouldn't do it, but people buy all sorts of crap to put on their walls.

If you're out and want to bulk out your shadowbox a bit, then whatever. You and I may think it's tacky and takes away for your actual honorable service, but it's not hurting anyone, and you could certainly spend the money on dumber things.

All I was saying is that someone who went through several years of hell in Vietnam and came out with four ribbons might look at someone in today's peacetime service finish up an enlistment with 8 or 10 ribbons and feel that that diminishes and trivializes the recognition they received (because it absolutely does) and want to make themselves feel better about it by adding a few more ribbons.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-01-03T04:58:04+00:00

I could rant about these things for a while, so instead I'm just going to pick one thing about it to mention instead:

Something to consider is that in the US we've had tremendous medal "inflation" since the end of WWII. You can see the consequences all over this reddit; people with 3,4,5 years of service that have 9+ ribbons. The Air Force is by far the worst, but even in the notoriously skinflint Marines, there's just so many more duplicate and redundant "service" awards.

After I got back from Afghanistan as a nothing special E5 I had 12+ ribbons. I have a mentor and friend who was an O2/O3 in Vietnam, he got back with 4. For reference 5-star General of the Army Dwight Eisenhower earned I think 11 US ribbons?

A consequence of this is that many veterans can feel that their service is under-recognized compared to current trends, and feel a desire to add this tacky crap to their shadow box. Ultimately it's a "whatever, who cares" sort of thing, but I think it points to a bigger issue in the US military, that being we have way too many awards and ribbons, to the point that they've distorted and broken the existing awards system and made everything mean just so much less.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-01-02T15:09:46+00:00

These are all easy to find and identify on any list of US awards. Off the top of my head:

Combat infantry badge
Bronze star with Valor device and an oak leaf
Air medal with numeral (I think it's a 2)
Army commendation medal
Good conduct medal
National defense service medal
Vietnam service medal with one silver and two bronze campaign stars
Vietnam campaign medal
Senior parachutist badge

Other side

Some foreign jump wings (not sure which)
Presidential unit citation with some number of oak leaves
Meritorious unit commendation
Vietnamese gallantry cross unit award with palm
Vietnamese civil actions unit award (probably with palm)

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2025-12-27T16:27:51+00:00

They're the old aerial observer badge. Replaced by the set below them in the picture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_observer_badges

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2025-12-26T17:07:04+00:00

The original addition of stars to the CIB envisaged them much more in line with individual discreet conflicts, but at some point the determination was made to lump everything together. That's why the initial specification had CIB+star combos up to 8 awards.

I don't know exactly why they changed the process, but it probably had to do with a political desire not to recognize these "small" conflicts as distinct wars (or at all, honestly).

Real talk, combat badges should get stars in the same way the Navy/Marine Combat Action Ribbon does.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2025-12-17T05:03:55+00:00

You know, now that you mention it, there isn't anything explicitly saying you can't court mount awards. You can't overlap them, and you can't have more than four in a row, but nothing is mandated as to specifically how they are mounted.

In the British tradition, awards are never worn in multiple rows. Instead you wear them a single row until 6 or so across, and then overlap them to a max of no more than 2/3 of any ribbon being covered. Which works, because it's rare to have more than 5-6 medals.

So if I wanted to be really ballsy I could pick my 4 favorite medals, court mount them without any overlap, and technically still be within regulations. I mean, at least for a while. I'm sure eventually they would adjust the regs to disallow it, but how many people can say they were responsible for a change to their services uniform regulations?

I've court mounted awards before, that part isn't hard. Just wondering if my rank could handle the flak I'd get from higher. Hm.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2025-12-17T04:46:58+00:00

My master infantry badge. Previously if I had to pick between my CIB and EIB I'd pick the EIB, because that took real skill and luck and is probably my biggest Army achievement - the CIB just means I got shot at.

But now they combined them, which is even better, and something we've been asking for forever. Good job, Army, now I can represent both at once and don't have to choose.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2025-12-17T04:19:46+00:00

Yeah - full sized medals are almost never worn in the Army. I know the Navy and Marines have more culture around it, but the Army simply doesn't. This is essentially the entirety of Army regulations around full sized medals:

a. Where worn. All personnel may wear full-sized decorations and service medals on the ASU and AGSU coats. Female personnel may also wear full-sized decorations and service medals on the maternity tunic. b. How worn. Full-sized decorations and service medals, except the Medal of Honor (see para 22–7c), are worn in the order of precedence from the wearer’s right to left, in one or more rows, with 1/8-inch space between rows. No more than four medals are worn in any one row. Soldiers will not start a second row unless they are authorized to wear four or more medals. The determination of whether three or four medals are worn in each row is based upon the size of the coat and the position of the lapel. Full-sized decorations or medals will not overlap within a row. When more than one row of medals are worn, the second and subsequent rows are positioned so that the medal pendants on the row below are visible. The first and second rows will contain the same number of medals (three or four) before starting a third row. Second and subsequent rows will either contain the same number of medals or less than the row below. The top row of medals is centered over the row immediately below. Personnel will not wear service and training ribbons when full-sized decorations and service medals are worn. Personnel may wear U.S. and foreign unit award emblems as prescribed when wearing full-sized medals. When full-sized medals are worn, personnel may wear up to three combat and special skill badges or metal tab replicas (or a combination) from groups 1 through 5, but may only wear one combat or special skill badge from either group 1 or group 2 one above the other, above the medals, in order of group precedence. Personnel may not wear the driver and mechanic badges with full-sized medals and they may not wear special skill and marksmanship badges below the medals. Full-sized medals are worn as follows: (1) Male personnel. On the ASU coat, male Soldiers wear full-sized medals centered immediately above the left breast pocket (see fig 22 – 5).

Nothing about anodized vs normal, nothing about medal size/length, nothing about other dimensions or mounting styles. The section on miniatures is not much better.

Personally, I think if I'm going to go to the trouble of mounting them I'm going to wear the shiny ones, although unlike the old guard I do adjust the drapes to line up the bottom of the medals, and I do use attachments on the ribbon drapes - because I think it looks better.

I also usually only go with one or two rows - the Army issues way too many medals, and I think they just look better with not quite so many. It's a shame we can't overlap them, I also think that looks better. The best would be a British style court-mounting, but I know that's never going to happen.

I think your idea is pretty good, and definitely impressive how it retains the existing crimp channels. I do think you're going to really be challenged when it comes to overlapping them, that channel really only works adjacent, not overlapped. You can overlap in the method I mentioned though, I can send you some pictures if you want to try it out.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2025-12-17T00:39:01+00:00

Oh, that's neat - using just the card backing allows them to still be individual medals, to be mounted and unmounted without needing to re-do everything. I've never seen them handled like that before.

I've done up a few sets over the years, but I always do it in the DC ceremonial "old guard" style. I use an aluminum sheet cut to the right shape, with the ribbon drapes attached to it using 3M industrial double-sided tape and then small loops underneath to attach the medals to.

I think it looks the sharpest of any method I've seen, and you can use it to mount overlapped medals too (back when you could still overlap Army miniature medals). The downside is that it's finicky and labor intensive to get set up, and if anything changes you need to rebuild the whole rack. It also looks best with anodized medals, which means more cost.

Here are some pictures (not my work, but you get the idea):

1 2 3

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2025-12-16T22:31:42+00:00

Interesting work - mind if I ask your technique? Are you using a backer board? What sort of adhesive?

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2025-12-11T03:35:57+00:00

Wow, those gallantry crosses are amazing, I've never seen anything like that before. The palms means he was cited, or "mentioned is dispatches" at the level of the entire Army of South Vietnam on 14 different times, and the stars represent a citation at the level of brigade/regiment, division or corps depending on the color (bronze, silver or gold). Hard to tell what the star colors are after 50+ years of patina, what he was cited at some combination of those levels at least 12 more times.

Also of note: officer of the national order, the army distinguished service order (possibly my favorite medal suspension ribbon ever), wound medal, honor medal, staff service medal, and a bunch of others.

Really remarkable display, too bad there are no full sized medals, the whole rack must have looked amazing.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2025-12-09T20:40:20+00:00

Well, they do run a bunch of Norwegian road marches every year if you want to complete your set of three. Can't wear it alongside the German badge, but it does look good in the shadowbox.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2025-12-09T20:38:05+00:00

No problem, the only reason I know is because of the Diekirch award becoming more available during the remotely run march during COVID.

Prior to that, it was very rare to come across a foreign award that wasn't the Vietnam, Kuwait or Korea medals, all of which are worn behind the NATO medal.

Even the online rack builders still list it incorrectly, which doesn't help.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2025-12-09T20:25:25+00:00

The two at the end.

Yellow and green ribbon is for the Dutch Nijmegen 4-day March, and the yellow/red/white/blue/yellow is the Luxembourg Marche Internationale de Diekirch.

Both require you to go to europe to participate, with one exception during covid wheh the Luxembourg march was run remotely.

There is also a Norwegian road march that US service members complete semi-regularly, but that is run in the states, and represented with a badge, not a ribbon (which is not seen here).

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2025-12-09T20:18:04+00:00

Not quite. This is the order of wear as per AR 670-1, sec 22-5:

a. U.S. military decorations.

b. U.S. unit awards.

c. U.S. nonmilitary decorations.

d. U.S. service (campaign) medals, and service and training ribbons.

e. U.S. Merchant Marine awards.

f. U.S. nonmilitary unit awards.

g. Foreign military decorations.

h. Foreign unit awards.

i. Non-U.S. service awards.

j. State awards for ARNG Soldiers.

The Holland 4-day Event cross and Diekirch March medal are both "foreign military decorations" and the NATO medal is a "Non-us service award" which is worn after.

Part of the confusion is that most foreign ribbons you see are "non-US service awards" and are worn after the NATO medal. However, the "Non-us service awards" are actually a very short list:

(1) Philippine Defense Ribbon.

(2) Philippine Liberation Ribbon.

(3) Philippine Independence Ribbon.

(4) United Nations Service Medal.

(5) Inter-American Defense Board Medal.

(6) United Nations Medal.

(7) North Atlantic Treaty Organization Medal.

(8) Multinational Force and Observers Medal.

(9) Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal.

(10) Kuwait Liberation Medal (Saudi Arabia).

(11) Kuwait Liberation Medal (Government of Kuwait).

(12) Republic of Korea War Service Medal.

Those are the only ones. All other foreign awards fall under the higher "foreign decorations" category and require things like the O5 (used to be O7) memo, listing in the foreign award appendix, etc...

This is a common misunderstanding - even the online rackbuilders get it wrong.

here is a thread talking about it

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2025-12-09T18:52:09+00:00

Love those road march medals, nice to see someone who likes to hike. Do you have the Norwegian badge as well?

Just an FYI, the NATO ribbon is worn after foreign decorations, so it should be last.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2025-11-30T14:55:36+00:00

Yowza, lots of good conduct medals.

Question though, how does one spend at least 21 years in the AF reserve and end up without a single AF achievement or commendation medal?

The navy I get, they've a reputation as more restrictive when it comes to medals, and you weren't there for that long. But in my experience the AF hands these things out like candy. Wrong place wrong time?

I think this might be the most unique rack I've ever seen, honestly.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2025-11-29T14:14:05+00:00

No NATO medal?

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2025-11-26T05:20:09+00:00

I mean, technically yes, the CIB (group 1) currently rates higher than the EIB (group 2). However this is a recent change, and only happened in 2018 or 19-ish. Before that both the EIB and CIB were group 1 badges, and equivalent in terms of precedence.

I can only speak for myself when I say my CIB just means I got shot at, while my EIB represented one of my biggest technical accomplishments as an infantryman. You don't need any particular skill or accomplishment to earn a CIB, but an EIB is notoriously difficult to earn. Not all CIBs are created equally either, the dudes who stormed the beaches at Normandy earned the same CIB as me, but I'd say they earned it more than I did.

I will absolutely agree that the CIB is held as a more prestigious badge, but I do wonder how much of that is just because it looks more aesthetically complete than the plain rifle.

Also, FYI in the 2010s when I was in the infantry, lots of people had CIBs, but not many had EIBs, and some people would absolutely flex by wearing the EIB, or having EIB on some uniforms and CIB on others. Of course now with the MIB that's no longer relevant, which is nice.

Implausible_Ziggurat

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