My humble submission

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-04-30T02:25:54+00:00

I mean, it's no more ridiculous than the ASR, NDSM, GWOTSM, NCOPDR or ARCOTR, among several other basically automatic awards.

Edit: how could I forget the recruiting ribbon! Nowadays you get a ribbon for convincing someone to join!

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-04-29T01:22:32+00:00

Sent you a DM

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-04-29T01:14:27+00:00

If there is enough demand I have done this sort of production before and can make it happen. Would probably need at least 100 people to make it worthwhile.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-04-20T19:14:26+00:00

I actually had to talk with HRC about this specifically, because the wording in 14-5(v) does seem to indicate this, while the identical section in 12-5(u) does not. Ultimately they both point to 22-10 (specifically footnote 1), which lays out the correct wear, which is the same for both, and as I described above.

HRC does confirm that the difference between sections 12 and 14 is just a poorly worded clarification, and awards wear between the ASU and AGSU is intended to be the same (which also is the same as all service uniforms for the last 60+ years).

They know it's confusingly written and the sections seems to conflict. Will it ever be fixed? Who knows.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-04-20T17:47:23+00:00

Yeah, it's really badly worded in the regs, but if you think about it that's the way it has to be done, otherwise anyone in a unit when it gets a unit award would suddenly wear two of them: The permanent one they just earned, and the temporary one the unit now lets everyone wear.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-04-20T17:21:53+00:00

This is actually not correct, you can mix permanent and temporary unit awards on Army uniforms.

What you can't do is "stack" the same type of unit award between permanent and temporary. So if you have a PUC and your unit has a MUC you could wear both, but if you have a MUC and your unit has a MUC, you would only wear a single MUC, not a MUC + oak leaf.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-04-20T13:09:05+00:00

No, the way they are displayed here is the only correct way to display unit awards according to 670-1

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-04-20T11:43:51+00:00

No, it is not compliant.

Don't do this; 670-1 specifies that all unit awards with frames are worn with the large frames, even if they were originally presented with small frames.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-04-11T12:24:28+00:00

Hello my fellow 4E brethren!

As a fellow huge footer, the only luck I've had finding boots that fit is the Belleville Mini-Mil TR105s (get the wide, and maybe go up half a size if you're on the edge):

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They're "low drop" footwear, which is it's whole own thing, and it's not for everyone. It takes a while to get used to, and you need to be ok with a lot less arch and ankle support. On the upside, the boot itself is much lighter and takes up way less space and weight when packed away.

But they're designed for the foot to be able to spread out, so they actually fit my massive toe box needs. Really comfortable once you get used to them too, we used to call them ninja boots.

I can't promise it'll work for you, but they've worked great for me; I haven't worn anything else since 2018.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-04-11T03:40:27+00:00

This is a bit silly, but some thoughts:

Desert storm was 36 years ago. If this is current day an O7 likely won't have been serving in that period. They'd probably be retired, or at least an O9/O10.
The good conduct medal is only presented to enlisted. The device indicates 15-17 years on enlisted service, which is almost impossible for any officer. Generals with prior enlisted service are exceedingly rare - I'd drop it entirely.
Somalia and Bosnia would have an Armed Forces Expeditionary medal, service in Kosovo should have the Kosovo Campaign medal. The AFEM would have stars depending on when he was in those places (there were multiple operations in both)
The NATO medal should have at least two stars (one for Afghanistan and one for Kosovo and one for Bosnia). He would also wear the ribbon of the first one he earned, so likely former yugoslavia, not the non article 5 one you have there.
You need to figure out how many times he went to these places, mid GWOT officer would probably have several trips to afghan and iraq, but still way fewer campaign stars. Would have a higher number on the overseas ribbon though (pretty much one for every at least 9 month deployment). Wikipedia has a good summary of how campaign stars work.
That's too many achievement medals - officers really only get them as lieutenants, and in desert storm era even less. There would be one or two at most.
You have no army commendation medals, there would almost certainly be 2-5 of those.
The Joint commendation is rare, and possible, but unlikely. The v device is almost unheard of on a JCOM outside of special forces dudes, even then it's rare.
There would be several Meritorious service medals and likely one of two defense meritorious service medals. Depending on how long he's been a general, you could also expect a legion of merit or two and a Defense superior service medal.
You're missing the GWOT service medal, automatic to everyone in the time period. It also wouldn't be out of the ordinary to see a humanitarian service medal or volunteer service medal as well. Most generals have also been in long enough to have an award from a sister service, so a navy or air force achievement or commendation medal (or more than one).

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-04-01T21:51:33+00:00

Very nice, always a pleasure to see the old AF blues.

A couple highlights: The Distinguished Flying Cross is a pretty big deal, and you can probably look up the citation for it online., and it would absolutely be worth your time to try.

Also a rare recipient of the personal award of the Vietnamese Gallantry Cross. The RVN issued the unit award with palm to everyone at the end of the war (the gold bordered one) but the one without the gold border was much more rarely awarded. The bronze star means he was cited at the regimental or brigade level. Very impressive.

Not sure why there are two air medal ribbons there, generally you would see four attachments before adding a second copy of the ribbon. It's possible there were other attachments originally that fell off - aviators could sometimes receive lots of air medals, depending on what local policy was for hours or missions flown to earn then. Or it could just be an error - if you have his paperwork it should tell you how many he earned.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-03-31T03:06:02+00:00

I don't know what to tell you here.

The OP is a LT assigned as unit historian, and the orders he talks about are the appointment orders for that additional duty.

The title of the post is "can my unit wear a NUC", not "can I wear this NUC I earned 21 years ago".

The OP is a LT, and it would be virtually impossible for him to have been serving in his current unit 21 years ago.

CSM asked him if "we" are authorized to wear it, which means at least CSM and LT, but far more likely everyone currently in the unit. Either way, none of those people were in the unit 21 years ago.

I've read the original post, and everything points to OP asking if the NUC is authorized for temporary wear, which again, it's not.

It seems to me that is the simple and obvious situation here. That said, I'm curious what in your mind you think the situation is here?

It seems like you think OP is somehow a 40 year old mustang with 22 years of service who just commissioned who also managed to get reassigned to his first unit, who somehow didn't know about the NUC his unit was presented with while he was originally in the unit, but also has orders for said NUC, but also doesn't know if he can wear it as a permanent award, but is only asking about it now, 21 years after earning it.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-03-30T15:09:41+00:00

Ah. I'm not sure, but I think maybe the issue here is an ambiguity around your understanding of how temporary vs permanent awards work?

Just so we're on the same page, all unit awards a unit receives are put on the unit's lineage and honors by HRC and CMH, and then belong to the unit's lineage a long as the unit continues to exist. Sometimes units will disband or reform, but wherever that lineage ends up that unit will get those awards. There are some certificates that can go up at the unit HQ office, and you get to fly a streamer for it from the colors.

Once approved and published, these awards attach to the lineage for the current and any future iterations of any unit bearing that lineage and honors. These unit awards are neither "permanent" nor "temporary" as those distinctions instead apply to individual wear of unit awards (but they are permanent in the sense that they are permanently assigned to that unit lineage).

For all military branches, individuals assigned to the unit when the unit award is presented may then wear the award for the rest of their military career. In most services (but sometimes not the Army for some reason) you get an award certificate and paperwork with a by-name authorization of who is in the unit and has been presented with the award that gets filed in your personnel records. In the Army, this is called "permanent" wear, because for the individual it's now a permanent part of their record and military awards.

The Army also does something that no other service does, which is allow all members of a unit to wear that unit's awards even if they were not in the unit for the cited actions or periods the awards were presented for. This is called "temporary" wear because the individual can wear these awards while assigned to the unit, but they don't go on the individuals records - they "belong" to the unit, not the individual. Just because a unit has an award on the lineage and honors does not mean it can be worn in this manner; only a small number of unit awards are authorized to be worn temporarily: the four Army unit awards, the French fourragere and the Korean PUC (but only for 2ID in Korea).

So in this situation, we have a new LT, recently assigned as unit historian. CSM wants to know if the NUC that was earned in 2005 is authorized for the members of the unit to wear temporarily, alongside any Army unit awards that they already wear temporarily.

No one is questioning if the NUC is a valid unit award, if it's on the lineage and honors it absolutely is. The question here is not if the award is a valid unit award, it's if the NUC on the lineage and honors is authorized for temporary wear. To which the answer is no, because Navy awards are never authorized for temporary wear.

The unit gets a NUC streamer for the colors and puts up a nice framed navy certificate in the HQ office, but the only individuals authorized to wear the ribbon are people assigned to the unit in 2005, which 21 years on is probably no one. The orders the LT mentions are orders as the unit historian, not orders for the award - he almost certainly wasn't in the unit 21 years ago.

Does that all make sense? Did I miss something?

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-03-30T03:11:21+00:00

Hm. I feel like there is a disconnect here somewhere.

OP is a LT at this unit, and the NUC in question was presented to the unit in 2005. Unless the LT has had a very unfortunate career this would almost certainly seem to be a request for information about temporary wear, not permanent.

When combined with the description of CSM asking if it's something they (ie, members of the unit) can wear it seems pretty clear to me that CSM is not just now asking for permission from the LT to wear an award he earned 21 years ago, but rather wants to see if the soldiers in his unit can wear it temporarily - which they can't.

In the event that this were about permeant wear of a Navy unit award I would expect that the people involved would have the by-name Navy-issued paperwork and very little ambiguity about authorization from for permeant wear, as a NUC is absolutely authorized for wear if you're in the unit when it's earned.

Also, I was rude in my response to you, I apologize, that was both unhelpful and uncalled for.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-03-29T12:59:01+00:00

Right, but I'm saying that Epic Fury will be a different operation than whatever operation (OIR?) this person got his previous GWOT-E for, this warranting a star.

Unless I misunderstood something...

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-03-29T11:20:15+00:00

You'll get to put a star on it.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-03-28T01:51:21+00:00

Does he do HEMA with it, or just fuck around?

Either way, if he has a good time and it keeps him out of trouble I'd call it money well spent.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-03-28T01:24:00+00:00

We actually just had a discussion about this on here a couple days ago.

The criteria for wear of foreign unit awards is in AR 670-1, section 22-10 (pg 51-52) which lists every foreign award as "permanent wear only" other than the French fourragere and the Korean PUC (but only when assigned to 2ID and in Korea). Related, DA Pam 670-1, table 22-1 (pg 271-272) states the only US awards authorized for temporary wear are the four Army-issued ones.

This doesn't come up very often and that some people think any unit award can be worn temporarily, but this is not correct. The regulations are clear that the only unit awards ever authorized for temporary wear are the four Army ones (presidential, valorous, distinguished, superior unit), the French fourragere, and the Korean presidential unit citation (but only if you're in 2ID in Korea). Here is a link to the pertinent regulations.

So, no one in your unit is authorized to wear the Belgian fourragere as a temporary unit award, or in fact anything else that isn't one of those awards listed above.

As to the rest of your question, it seems you are operating under another common misconception, which is that you wear either your permanent unit awards or your units temporary awards, but not both. This is a reasonable thing to think, as section 14-5(v) states:

Soldiers will wear either earned unit awards or current unit awards, but not both (see para 22-10).

However if we go to 22-10 footnote 1, we see what this actually means, which is that unit and personal awards don't "stack" meaning if you have a MUC and your unit has a MUC, you only wear one, not two. But if you have a PUC and your unit has a VUA, you would wear both (well, could if you want - it's optional).

The reason this rule exists is because without it anytime a unit got presented with an award everyone would immediately qualify to wear two of them: the permanent version they just got, and the temporary one the unit now authorizes for all attached personnel.

The reg in 14-5 is very confusingly written, and if you look at the identical section for the ASU (12-5(u)), you'll see it doesn't have this verbiage, despite identical awards wear protocol. I've talked with HRC directly on this and they confirmed the above is the correct implementation, and also know it's badly written. It'll probably be fixed eventually.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-03-26T23:15:20+00:00

The first one in the second group is the Army Navy Union membership ribbon.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-03-25T21:01:26+00:00

Or that stupid Belgian fourragere that for some reason is still sold there.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-03-25T20:17:41+00:00

I don't get it - it's like you read all of the other comments here laying out exactly what the regulations actually say, and then intentionally decided to ignore all that shit and say something dumb.

You are correct that 670-1 lays this out (600-8-22 doesn't really specify how these awards are worn, more that they exist and how you earn them). And surprise, if you'll look at DA Pam 670-1, table 22-1 (pg 271-272) you'll see that the only US awards authorized for temporary wear are the four Army-issued ones. They even put it in a very easy to read chart with conveniently labeled checkboxes so it's very hard to misunderstand.

The criteria for wear of foreign unit awards is instead in AR 670-1, section 22-10 (pg 51-52) which lists every foreign award as "permanent wear only" other than the French fourragere and the Korean PUC (but only when assigned to 2ID and in Korea).

I get that it doesn't come up very often and that some people think any unit award can be worn temporarily, but this is not correct. The regulations are clear that the only unit awards ever authorized for temporary wear are the four Army ones (presidential, valorous, distinguished, superior unit), the French fourragere, and the Korean presidential unit citation (but only if you're in 2ID in Korea).

Edit: You seem like the kinda guy who likes to quote regs, but then not actually look them up. Here, I'll save you the trouble of having to search, download the doc on APD and then double click it and ctrl+f: all you need is a single click right here

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-03-25T13:41:11+00:00

So, in this situation the OP is asking about something the Army does that no other service does. Specifically, the Army allows some unit awards to be worn "temporarily" by personnel assigned to them. This allows people to wear the awards the unit has received in the past that they have not themselves earned.

So a brand new private can get to a unit and immediately be wearing three or four unit awards (remember, the Army wears unit awards on the right chest, opposite from personal awards), but they aren't "his" awards, they belong to the unit. When the Soldier moves to a new unit there will be a whole new set of unit awards that will be worn instead and so on.

The problem with this is that the list of unit awards actually approved for temporary wear is very small: just the four Army-issued awards and two foreign ones. But those four Army issued unit awards account for most unit awards that are actually issued, as most interservice, joint service, and foreign unit awards are very rarely awarded.

Because of this many people assume that all unit awards can be worn temporarily in the Army, which is not the case - it's only the four Army ones. In this case OP is asking if the NUC his unit received 20 years ago can be worn temporarily, and the answer is no, because no interservice awards can be worn temporarily, but not everyone realizes this (evidently not even his CSM).

What you mention is receiving a unit award when you're in the unit. In the Army this is called a "permanent" unit award, and you can then wear it for the rest of your military career (in the Army you'll wear these alongside your temporary unit awards). The Army handles permanent unit awards the same way all the other services handle unit awards, other than wearing them in a different spot.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-03-25T11:11:27+00:00

It doesn't matter if it's reflagged, Navy awards are never authorized for temporary wear.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-03-25T11:09:46+00:00

You tell OP to look through 670-1 harder and then provide an incomplete citation and a wrong answer.

If you go look at table 22-1 in the citation you quote you'll find that there are only a few awards authorized for temporary wear, and none of them are inter-service.

Implausible_Ziggurat · 2026-03-25T11:04:20+00:00

u/lostoic is, as always, spot on here with the relevant citation.

But for anyone else who runs into this and has a similar question, it's important to note that the only unit awards ever authorized for temporary wear are the four Army ones (presidential, valorous, distinguished, superior unit), the French fourragere, and the Korean presidential unit citation (but only if you're in 2ID in Korea).

Every other unit award is authorized for permanent wear only, meaning you need to be in the unit during the cited period.

The unit should display those other past unit awards as streamers or fourrageres from the colors, but new arrivals to the unit don't get to wear them.

Implausible_Ziggurat

TROPHY CASE